Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

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TXgolfer said:
This coming from someone who thought Glass Steagall was a 1993 act last week, thinks there is no vitrol at MSNBC and sees a baton hit a protester that no one else sees. :roll:
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Spoken by someone who thinks protesters are backed by Iran and Hugo Chavez.
 
darkdog said:
Not anything goes. Did they provoke the police, block traffic, have sex in public, bang drums for weeks on end, or abuse the restrooms of nearby businesses? In fact, did they do anything objectionable?

By the way, I'm sensitive to the argument that a whole movement should not be judged based on the idiotic behavior of a few. They should be judged based on behavior that is common to the movement. Even if I agreed with the message in its entirety (I agree with parts), I would distance myself from this movement. To embrace it would mean a lot of egg on my face.
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We should be grateful that they aren't rioting like the ones in Europe.
 
TXgolfer said:
Everyone I have talked to is pretty glad Raj and Madoff are in the can. And people lost their homes because they didn't make payments...
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and why suddenly out of the blue could millions not make their payments? they were set up to fail.

It's very different in Canada - primarily because bankers use their own money to make loans so they are far more conservative and not very keen on high risk lending.

Yes, you're right. Homes got foreclosed because people couldn't pay. But then again, bankers knew this already even while doling out the loans.
 
Reba said:
We should be grateful that they aren't rioting like the ones in Europe.
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I'm grateful our "occupy wall street" is not riotous either. While driving to my son's place for our weekly visit, traffic was a bit slow because of the demonstration but it was very peaceful, calm and orderly. Cops were everywhere, they were helping out with traffic and getting crowds of people across the streets safely. Quite civillized.
 
DeafCaroline said:
and why suddenly out of the blue could millions not make their payments? they were set up to fail.

It's very different in Canada - primarily because bankers use their own money to make loans so they are far more conservative and not very keen on high risk lending.

Yes, you're right. Homes got foreclosed because people couldn't pay. But then again, bankers knew this already even while doling out the loans.
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Banks are paying for their mistakes ....nobody supports fraud. But borrowers are still responsible for knowing what they can afford. Only an idiot trusts a salesman who says "let me show you how you can afford this". Do the math.
 
Excuse me if this is a repost. I've lost track. I've been trying to find an update on the guy's condition since he was released from the hospital.

...In the incident involving the scooter, a video posted to YouTube shows the man, Ari Douglas, with his leg beneath the scooter’s front wheel, and then, a few seconds later, beneath its back wheel, apparently stuck. Another video, on the Local East Village, shows him being dragged away from the motorcycle by the police moments later.

The chief police spokesman, Paul J. Browne, said Mr. Douglas “was not trapped.”

“Independent witnesses said he purposely put his legs under the scooter and then claimed falsely he was trapped,” Mr. Browne said.

The Daily News quoted one of its photographers, Joseph Marino, as saying that the scooter “definitely hit” Mr. Douglas but did not run him over. “I saw him sticking his legs under the bike to make it appear he was run over,” Mr. Marino said. Mr. Browne said he was also told by The Associated Press that one of its photographers witnessed Mr. Douglas deliberately putting his feet under the scooter.

Mr. Douglas, 32, of Connecticut, was treated at the emergency room at Bellevue Hospital Center, said Gideon Oliver, a committee member of the lawyers’ guild, which has been providing legal aid to the protesters. Mr. Oliver said he did not know the extent of Mr. Douglas’s injuries.

Mr. Douglas was charged with felony criminal mischief, obstructing judicial administration, disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, Mr. Browne said.

Mr. Browne said Mr. Douglas kicked over the scooter at one point. “After he said he was trapped, he kicked over the same scooter,” Mr. Browne said. Before the scooter incident, Mr. Browne said, Mr. Douglas had been warned repeatedly to “stay on the sidewalk and not come into the street.”
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Pair of Police-Protester Incidents Adds Fuel to Occupy Wall St. - NYTimes.com

He's only 32 years old? I thought I read earlier reports calling him "middle-aged."
 
TXgolfer said:
Banks are paying for their mistakes ....nobody supports fraud. But borrowers are still responsible for knowing what they can afford. Only an idiot trusts a salesman who says "let me show you how you can afford this". Do the math.
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Banks are paying for their mistakes but not at personal cost and they still managed to give themselves million dollar bonuses with taxpayers' money, people are paying even more and at a far more personal cost. You might as well tell people to study banking, economics and finance before applying for a loan. people are naive and banks took advantage of this.

In Canada, we have laws to protect against such exploitation. We know that people don't know as much about medicine as doctors do. We know that people don't know as much about finance as banks do, we know that the average guy next door doesn't know as much about math as einstein or that I don't know as much about law as the lawyer who handled my divorce case. There's a reason we trust professionals. And there's a reason laws are put in place to protect the people against professionals who are not behaving professionally or ethically.

But hey, if you're fine with how things are in the US, and think it's all the people's fault for not being as knowledgeable as bankers, then whatever makes you happy.
 
DeafCaroline said:
We know that people don't know as much about medicine as doctors do. We know that people don't know as much about finance as banks do, we know that the average guy next door doesn't know as much about math as einstein or that I don't know as much about law as the lawyer who handled my divorce case. There's a reason we trust professionals. And there's a reason laws are put in place to protect the people against professionals who are not behaving professionally or ethically.

But hey, if you're fine with how things are in the US, and think it's all the people's fault for not being as knowledgeable as bankers, then whatever makes you happy.
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This is a good way of pointing out something that also bothered me. Assuming that someone in college would be smart enough to know banking ins and outs, in addition to their own courseload, plus work their way through; is this even possible for student in a field completely unrelated to finance? Are there enough hours in a day? What about those that are challenged mentally; how do they find the time to succeed when it is all on them to learn and know? Sure, there are exceptions; that is why there are lengthy articles that herald their individual success story. I found some of the previous comments to be a bit smug.
 
You have to view this one sideways but I think it's the final proof that the guy faked his stuck foot:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfSANolzV6w&feature=player_embedded]NYPD Assaults Legal Observer Ari Douglas - YouTube[/ame]

You can clearly see both feet clear of the scooter before it was tipped over by Douglas. In fact, you can see him wedge his foot underneath the carriage (not wheel) of the scooter.

In the other video, where he kicks over the scooter, you can see by the position of his foot, that it was under the carriage (which doesn't touch the road), not under a wheel.

He was never run over.

He might have been bumped by the scooter but definitely not run over.
 
TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives?
 
sallylou said:
TXgolfer, what's up with you lately? Calling everyone an idiot and being so cranky is not really your style. What gives?
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methinks TXGolfer is a victim of Wall Street and/or knows one "very" personally affected by Wall Street :hmm:
 
deafskeptic said:
Just out of curiosity, who bought the politicans?
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I don't think they were necessarily bought. They just believe as a matter of ideology that the government should intervene to create outcomes they prefer. Imagine someone saying "I don't think the government should be trying to help poor people and minorities buy homes more easily." Would that go without controversy? Or would people call him uncaring and accuse him of wanting to kill the American dream? I think it's the latter. Politicians, feeling like they had to "do something", pushed on banks to lower lending standards, it led to a speculation bubble, it burst when interest rates went up, and here we are today.

deafskeptic said:
I agree that fundmental changes need to be made in the laws and though I am reluctant to admit it, it will have to government regulation.
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It's not just a matter of more regulation or less. It's a matter of bad regulation and good regulation. Regulators were actually pushing on banks to loosen "unreasonable" lending standards. That was bad regulation. There were politicians who were calling for reigning in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That would have been good regulation if they had succeeded.

DeafCaroline said:
Not as bad as it sounds. You guys DID have government regulation - the Glass-Steagall act and with this regulation, you had zero financial crises in 45 years. It was only after the first repeal of the act that Wall Street started having major problems.

We're far more conservative and regulated in Canada - and because of this, we were fortunately protected by the market collapse not only in America but also Europe. While millions lost their homes, our real estate market not only stayed steady but continued to be a seller's market. AND our overall taxes are the lowest they have been in 50 years. We are the leading country, economically speaking, of the G7 after the 2008 crisis.

Not too shabby for a left-leaning government-regulated welfare nation, eh?
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Glass-Steagall separated commercial banks from investment banks. Canada did away with this separation in 1987, 12 years before the US did. There are several things different about Canada. For one, their regulators are actually concerned with risk, not social engineering. They also have laws requiring home buyers to pay 20% down or buy mortgage insurance. They also don't have any equivalent of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to buy up risky mortgages from banks with implicit assumptions that the government would bail them out.

Here in the US, the housing boom was very localized. It was concentrated in Florida, California, Arizona, and Nevada. For example, here in Dallas, home prices only dropped about 3% from their peak. This was mostly the result of heavy land use restrictions that cause the supply of housing in an area to stagnate while demand increases. The result was skyrocketing prices. Politicians then fretted about "affordable housing" and pushed for "creative financing" to get people in houses.
 
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