Deafhood

[jillio]

What is his point exactly?

HOHtopics, next time you condescend to me like you did yesterday (see quote below), and deliberately misquote me, I will forever ignore your existence on this board.

He has no point. He is angry and he projects his anger onto others. You are not the first one he has treated in a judgemental and condescending manner. Ignore him.

 

[deafskeptic]

Right. No one seeks validation for the fact that they are human. They seek validation for the belief systems they have, for their ways of being, for the way they self-identify, for their self worth...but not for the fact that they are human. That is just another distortion that indicates how little this poster knows or understands about the topic being discussed.

Which is why I don't hang around Deaf Freedom.

 

[DeafCaroline]

He has no point. He is angry and he projects his anger onto others. You are not the first one he has treated in a judgemental and condescending manner. Ignore him.

Will do.

 

[kokonut]

What is his point exactly?

Simple. Labeling can have consequences. It can lead to confusion and can be used as a weapon of choice. Which is why I prefer to keep things simple and accept people for who they are...not about what they are.

 

[deafskeptic]

Well some of the AD'ers including DeafCaroline went as far as saying that if one doesn't embrace Deafhood, he or she should leave the forum. Sometime you have to see beyond the surface to see the cause and effect.

Mind showing any posts that said that? I don't recall any posts saying that. I sure don't recall deafcaroline saying that.

 

[jillio]

Simple. Labeling can have consequences. It can lead to confusion and can be used as a weapon of choice. Which is why I prefer to keep things simple and accept people for who they are...not about what they are.

Labeling is a fact of life and inherent in society. You label yourself HOH. I challenge you to find a society that does not label. In this society, labels are always used as weapons by the powerful to keep the less than powerful marginalized. You really need to make up a summer reading list and educate yourself.

 

[DeafCaroline]

"Which is why I prefer to keep things simple and accept people for who they are...not about what they are. "

Ah, but you don't. That's the thing - if you prefer not to label yourself as Deaf, etc etc, that's your perogative and I personally have no problems with that. However, when we say that we identify with the big D or with Deafhood etc etc, you take issue with it. Why is that?

 

[jillio]

"Which is why I prefer to keep things simple and accept people for who they are...not about what they are. "

Ah, but you don't. That's the thing - if you prefer not to label yourself as Deaf, etc etc, that's your perogative and I personally have no problems with that. However, when we say that we identify with the big D or with Deafhood etc etc, you take issue with it. Why is that?

Because he is a hypocrit. And he fails to recognize that for a significant portion of the deaf population, Deaf IS who they are.

 

[AJWSmith]

HOH, deaf & Deaf

Paddy identifies "D"eafhood. And, yes, he does make that distinction. We all know that the distinction between these groups exists, and that the psychological and social issues of the two groups are very different.

I though there were three groups; HOH, deaf and Deaf. To me there is a real distinction between deaf & HOH. People who are 'deaf' use oral language, and late-deafened people and mainstreamed deafies tend to belong to this group. This group gets treated differently from people with a hearing loss who can still function "successfully" in the hearing world with their invisible HAs. When I meet another deaf person, they understand how I experience life better than any other group.

 

[kokonut]

"Which is why I prefer to keep things simple and accept people for who they are...not about what they are. "

Ah, but you don't. That's the thing - if you prefer not to label yourself as Deaf, etc etc, that's your perogative and I personally have no problems with that. However, when we say that we identify with the big D or with Deafhood etc etc, you take issue with it. Why is that?

Ah, but I do. You don't know me and yet you claim to know everything about me already?

I explained before, the big "D" in "Deaf" has always denoted to mean culturally deaf as way to separate from those who are not, and lessen the confusion. Which is fine. It has been used like that for a few decades and that was the understanding. That's undeniable.

Secondly, there are people with better hearing (e.g. mild hearing loss, unilateral hearing loss, certain hearing aid users...essentially those who rely and use speaking and listening as their primary and even sole mode of communication) do not perceive themselves as deaf, of course. Tell them that they're on a Deafhood (note the big "D") journey they'll look at you like you're some idiot and may perceive your intrusion as insulting. Even if you say deafhood, they'll still look at you funny. You wear glasses? 20/25 vision? You're a on blindhood journey. See what I mean?

Lastly, I've already said previously a few times that Deafhood (big "D") is essentially for culturally deaf people. And that's fine if they feel ok about that label. But I and others prefer to keep things simple. Our journey is deeply personal and private. People are not in the position to define other people's journeys.

 

[jillio]

I though there were three groups; HOH, deaf and Deaf. To me there is a real distinction between deaf & HOH. People who are 'deaf' use oral language, and late-deafened people and mainstreamed deafies tend to belong to this group. This group gets treated differently from people with a hearing loss who can still function "successfully" in the hearing world with their invisible HAs. When I meet another deaf person, they understand how I experience life better than any other group.

Exactly. And that is why the distinctions between the groups are made, and the beneficial purpose of labeling and validation. This grouping together is simply the way that humans function to get their needs met.

 

[jillio]

Ah, but I do. You don't know me and yet you claim to know everything about me already?

I explained before, the big "D" in "Deaf" has always denoted to mean culturally deaf as way to separate from those who are not, and lessen the confusion. Which is fine. It has been used like that for a few decades and that was the understanding. That's undeniable.

Secondly, there are people with better hearing (e.g. mild hearing loss, unilateral hearing loss, certain hearing aid users...essentially those who rely and use speaking and listening as their primary and even sole mode of communication) do not perceive themselves as deaf, of course. Tell them that they're on a Deafhood (note the big "D") journey they'll look at you like you're some idiot and may perceive your intrusion as insulting. Even if you say deafhood, they'll still look at you funny. You wear glasses? 20/25 vision? You're a on blindhood journey. See what I mean?

Lastly, I've already said previously a few times that Deafhood (big "D") is essentially for culturally deaf people. And that's fine if they feel ok about that label. But I and others prefer to keep things simple. Our journey is deeply personal and private. People are not in the position to define other people's journeys.

Oh, but you do. You label yourself as HOH. Stop being such a hypocrit.

No one tells anyone they are on a Deafhood journey. That is for the individual to determine. You are the only one here attempting to tell anyone what journey that are on or not on.

Perhaps if people are looking at you like an idiot it is with good reason.

 

[DeafCaroline]

"Ah, but I do. You don't know me and yet you claim to know everything about me already? " - did I actually say I know everything about you? Nope, I haven't. I made my observation based on the comments you've left on this site which is that you pretty much disagree with everything we say. That's fine. You're entitled to your own opinions and like i said before and will re-iterate again - how you define yourself is your business.

And secondly, I don't call people with mild to moderate hearing loss deaf or Deaf. They're not. Nor would I ever slap that label on them but you are saying that's what we do and I haven't really quite seen evidence of that here or maybe I just haven't been around long enough.

Kokonut - you seem like a smart guy and I do admire that you are not a wishy washy neutral person but someone with very strong defined ideas and not afraid to express them even if they may incur wrath from some people. But truth be told - your comments have a tone to them like you have a strong disdain for deaf people who don't fall in line with your way of thinking.

Again, that's an observation - not because I am deluded enough to think I know a man just based on several comments he left on a website.

I honestly have nothing against you personally but it's discouraging to have a dialogue with someone who comes off as disdainful.

 

[kokonut]

I though there were three groups; HOH, deaf and Deaf. To me there is a real distinction between deaf & HOH. People who are 'deaf' use oral language, and late-deafened people and mainstreamed deafies tend to belong to this group. This group gets treated differently from people with a hearing loss who can still function "successfully" in the hearing world with their invisible HAs. When I meet another deaf person, they understand how I experience life better than any other group.

You are correct. There are distinct groups. Sometimes they overlap. It doesn't have to be those with invisible HAs but visible hearing aids where users function successfully (without quotes) in the hearing world. I see that everyday. And there are stark differences between those groups. And its funny because as I write I am listening with my tiny headphone a radio talk show and I am able to hear and understand just about every word of the host and callers. Accomodations vary between those groups and that's a given. Sometimes a little accomodation helps others require greater accomodation. Successes have been demonstrated in all groups when it comes to functioning in the hearing world. You just have to know where to look.

 

[Daredevel7]

Do all Cubans agree as to exactly what it means to be Cuban? Do all, in my case, Jews or African Americans agree as to what it means to be Jewish or African American? Or even bi-racial?
My answer to that is "no". However, there are some common values, traditions, and norms within those cultures that all can, and do, agree on.

I understand. I see Cuban/Jews/African Americans = Deaf in terms of labeling. People don't even agree what being deaf/Deaf means. However, do you see 20 other terms that "describes" being Cuban or having the mindset of being Cuban or feeling Cuban or loving Cuba or embracing Cuban culture or so on. Get my drift?

All I'm saying is...... I believe it's overload to the point of bringing more bad (arguing about it, who falls under this classification, what does it mean, confusing, etc) than good (empowering, sense of community, shorthand identification,..... what else?).

 

[AJWSmith]

Paddy Ladd clarified

Can anyone clarify for me if Paddy Ladd uses the term "deafhood" (small 'd')? It's been used by several people in this thread, but does he use it?

I've spent the last hour reading stuff by and about Paddy Ladd and it seems to me that he's talking about Deafhood (big 'D'). Paddy Ladd writes about the importance of culture. He doesn't appear to be describing Deafhood as an individual's journey - I've read comments where he distinguishes the collective Deaf culture(s) from the individualism of contemporary western culture.

Also Paddy Ladd seems to make a distinction between Deaf people and hard-of-hearing elderly people who have lived their whole lives as hearing people and are now suffering from mild hearing loss corrected by "invisible" HAs. A comment I read was that the former are made invisible by the latter and that's what he's fighting. I'm not sure where he would people like myself who are deaf, but not part of Deaf community. I get the impression he wants to include people like myself within the concept of Deafhood, but I can't see how as I'm not a sign language user. Maybe somebody who has read Paddy Ladd's book could clarify for me.

P.S. I'm not being lazy as I've ordered the book to read for myself. But it will take a while to be delivered.

Thanks to Amazon's Look Inside! I was able to read Paddy Ladd's definition of Deafhood (see page xviii). According to Paddy Ladd I am a hearing person so I am excluded from his definition of Deafhood. I confess to being a bit surprised at this discovery as when I read through this thread I thought the journey people were talking about included both Deaf and deaf. Is it common for Deaf people to label people like me as hearing because I'm not a sign language user? Seems wrong to me.

 

[kokonut]

"Ah, but I do. You don't know me and yet you claim to know everything about me already? " - did I actually say I know everything about you? Nope, I haven't. I made my observation based on the comments you've left on this site which is that you pretty much disagree with everything we say. That's fine. You're entitled to your own opinions and like i said before and will re-iterate again - how you define yourself is your business.

Who is this "we" you're claiming? Every single AD members? What am I disagreeing exactly?

And secondly, I don't call people with mild to moderate hearing loss deaf or Deaf. They're not. Nor would I ever slap that label on them but you are saying that's what we do and I haven't really quite seen evidence of that here or maybe I just haven't been around long enough.

I didn't say you would call people with mild or moderate hearing loss as deaf or Deaf. I am saying from the perspective of a person with mild hearing loss. Put yourself in their shoes and imagine how they might respond to the word "Deafhood" or "deafhood."

Kokonut - you seem like a smart guy and I do admire that you are not a wishy washy neutral person but someone with very strong defined ideas and not afraid to express them even if they may incur wrath from some people. But truth be told - your comments have a tone to them like you have a strong disdain for deaf people who don't fall in line with your way of thinking.

I'm an opinionated person. You're not the first and won't be the last one to say that when it comes to disagreeing.

Again, that's an observation - not because I am deluded enough to think I know a man just based on several comments he left on a website.

Good to hear that.

I honestly have nothing against you personally but it's discouraging to have a dialogue with someone who comes off as disdainful.

"Disdainful" is relative. But don't let that stop you.

..

 

[DeafCaroline]

Ok, fair enough - "we" as in we who don't agree with you, I guess.

and of course people with mild to moderate hearing loss would not identify with "Deaf' or "Deafhood" - they're not deaf. I am trying to remember if anyone here said something like that to make you bring that up.

 

[dogmom]

"Can anyone clarify for me if Paddy Ladd uses the term "deafhood" (small 'd')? It's been used by several people in this thread, but does he use it?

I've spent the last hour reading stuff by and about Paddy Ladd and it seems to me that he's talking about Deafhood (big 'D'). Paddy Ladd writes about the importance of culture. He doesn't appear to be describing Deafhood as an individual's journey - I've read comments where he distinguishes the collective Deaf culture(s) from the individualism of contemporary western culture.

Also Paddy Ladd seems to make a distinction between Deaf people and hard-of-hearing elderly people who have lived their whole lives as hearing people and are now suffering from mild hearing loss corrected by "invisible" HAs. A comment I read was that the former are made invisible by the latter and that's what he's fighting. I'm not sure where he would people like myself who are deaf, but not part of Deaf community. I get the impression he wants to include people like myself within the concept of Deafhood, but I can't see how as I'm not a sign language user. Maybe somebody who has read Paddy Ladd's book could clarify for me.

P.S. I'm not being lazy as I've ordered the book to read for myself. But it will take a while to be delivered. "


above from AJWSmith, I'm using for reference...

AJ,

When you bring up your writing of "people like myself", I feel similar, because while I have a technically mild hearing loss, I'm not elderly and have lived as kind of in a "in-between space" for reasons previously described, all my life. I personally do not identify as hearing. I've been involved in the Deaf community here but not strongly or consistently. But I support ASL/ Deaf schools and other Deaf values that I have learned about here and from my friends where I am.

 

[kokonut]

Ok, fair enough - "we" as in we who don't agree with you, I guess.

and of course people with mild to moderate hearing loss would not identify with "Deaf' or "Deafhood" - they're not deaf. I am trying to remember if anyone here said something like that to make you bring that up.

Do you honestly think they would come to a forum with the name "Alldeaf"? The number of people in here is almost negligibly small compared to the total population of people with hearing loss to a site that is overwhelmingly attended by Deaf people?