Deaf teachers losing jobs because of English

Buffalo said:
I get the impression that the oralists want the deaf kids to be really great at speaking and listening, nevermind their English/reading/academia skills.
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None that I have ever met or spoken to. They want to use spoken language as the means for acquiring written English skills. Their focus is language just like yours, just a different language.
 
Buffalo said:
I get the impression that the oralists want the deaf kids to be really great at speaking and listening, nevermind their English/reading/academia skills.
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I don't think that's quite true. I think they believe there is a stronger link between English skills with speaking English than signing. That's why. Of course, they want their own kid to read. That's ridiculous.
 
shel90 said:
:D

I have seen more than enough in the 10 plus years in the field of deaf ed from oral only programs, TC, and BiBi...

I would rather have a teacher who is fluent in both languages than not being fluent in just one language but with the crappy pay and burn out rate that comes with being a teacher, I dont think we will get to see too many teachers who are fluent in both. That's why I said if u want the standards so high, then ante up the pay and we will see more people interested in the field of deaf ed who possess these skills.
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I agree, we need to attract more people into the field of education, and increasing the pay is definitely one of the ways. Better than reducing the quality of tests to be certified.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I agree, we need to attract more people into the field of education, and increasing the pay is definitely one of the ways. Better than reducing the quality of tests to be certified.
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I am not proposing that the quality of the tests to be reduced...I am proposing for the tests to be less biased as far as the hearing perspective goes. That means I would like to see the audio/phonics of English subarea eliminated.
 
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Daredevel7 said:
Usually there's "proof" on both ends. In your example, there's proof that the climate is changing due to Americans. But there's also proof that the climate is changing as normal as it has been for the past eons.

That's why we fight, because the "proof" is not enough to overcome the the other sides' "proof".
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More than 90 percent of climate researchers agree with each other, while many americans belive what you are saying, that it's a battle between proofs and climate researchers disagree with each other at a significant scale. This is false. It's 97 percent against a splited 3 percent. Those small and eccentric groups are giving interesting ideas and input in the climate debate, but not much more than it. Just check for yourself at any major climate institute.

Also check this link on a survey among researchers.
Surveyed scientists agree global warming is real - CNN.com
 
faire_jour said:
I was talking about the student, not the teacher. I would rather have a student who's sign is ok, and is a fluent reader and writer, than someone who signs brilliantly and struggles to read.
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You never been in the shoes of a deaf person, but can understand you feel this way as a hearing person.
 
faire_jour said:
None that I have ever met or spoken to. They want to use spoken language as the means for acquiring written English skills. Their focus is language just like yours, just a different language.
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Modern folklore...:roll:
 
shel90 said:
:D

I have seen more than enough in the 10 plus years in the field of deaf ed from oral only programs, TC, and BiBi...

I would rather have a teacher who is fluent in both languages than not being fluent in just one language but with the crappy pay and burn out rate that comes with being a teacher, I dont think we will get to see too many teachers who are fluent in both. That's why I said if u want the standards so high, then ante up the pay and we will see more people interested in the field of deaf ed who possess these skills.
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I agree, and want to add that I belive we still can raise standards much higher by switching language focus. If a school lack teachers fluent in two languages and have to hire those left, who are weak in ASL or english, the student will benfit much more from a teacher with medicore english skills and fluency in ASL, than a teacher with medicore ASL skills and fluency in english. But thanks to prejudices, most people have it the wrong way and belive fluency in english is the most important factor. Bilingual research have proved this to be false, but still...
 
Buffalo said:
I get the impression that the oralists want the deaf kids to be really great at speaking and listening, nevermind their English/reading/academia skills.
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This correlate with what I have seen. Parents are more worried about social skills and if their children got friends at school than academia skills nowdays. For deaf people, it means speaking and listening with the so called 99 percent of the society, according to parents doing "informed choices". It's perhaps a bit strong to say they nevermind academia skills, but they are indeed not as strong as the social focus, from what I have seen.
 
faire_jour said:
I was talking about the student, not the teacher. I would rather have a student who's sign is ok, and is a fluent reader and writer, than someone who signs brilliantly and struggles to read.
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I thought this thread was about the teachers not the students. Of course every teacher want every deaf child to achieve literacy skills. I have yet met a teacher that doesnt want that for each of their student.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I don't think that's quite true. I think they believe there is a stronger link between English skills with speaking English than signing. That's why. Of course, they want their own kid to read. That's ridiculous.
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If they are so right, then how come deaf children of deaf parents are on par with hearing children with literacy skills? Explain that..
 
flip said:
Modern folklore...:roll:
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Not true at all. I just spent 3 weeks at an all oral school. It is a very good school with very well respected professionals. EVERY SINGLE day we learned about language. Our children were in language rich environments with teachers who were very skilled in teaching spoken LANGUAGE to deaf children. My daughter had 3 LANGUAGE assessments done. They never ever did rote speech work, they couldn't have cared less about articulation. They wanted receptive and expressive language.

When was the last time you spent that much time at an oral deaf school? I was there on Monday.
 
flip said:
This correlate with what I have seen. Parents are more worried about social skills and if their children got friends at school than academia skills nowdays. For deaf people, it means speaking and listening with the so called 99 percent of the society, according to parents doing "informed choices". It's perhaps a bit strong to say they nevermind academia skills, but they are indeed not as strong as the social focus, from what I have seen.
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I completely disagree with this too. I just spent 3 weeks with 13 other "oral" families and I assure you that language and academics were absolutely first in every single family's mind. Choosing oral communication is not about "social" issues but about access to 99% of information in the world. 99% of the schools in the world are conducted in spoken language. 99% of the teachers, lecturers, and tutors use spoken language.

The choice is about access.
 
faire_jour said:
Not true at all. I just spent 3 weeks at an all oral school. It is a very good school with very well respected professionals. EVERY SINGLE day we learned about language. Our children were in language rich environments with teachers who were very skilled in teaching spoken LANGUAGE to deaf children. My daughter had 3 LANGUAGE assessments done. They never ever did rote speech work, they couldn't have cared less about articulation. They wanted receptive and expressive language.

When was the last time you spent that much time at an oral deaf school? I was there on Monday.
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Off topic
 
shel90 said:
I thought this thread was about the teachers not the students. Of course every teacher want every deaf child to achieve literacy skills. I have yet met a teacher that doesnt want that for each of their student.
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And if the teacher can not provide that (because they themselves are not fluent) that is an outrage.

Again, I would rather have a student who has good English skills, than great sign skills. And how would you get that if the teacher doesn't have good skills?
 
faire_jour said:
I completely disagree with this too. I just spent 3 weeks with 13 other "oral" families and I assure you that language and academics were absolutely first in every single family's mind. Choosing oral communication is not about "social" issues but about access to 99% of information in the world. 99% of the schools in the world are conducted in spoken language. 99% of the teachers, lecturers, and tutors use spoken language.

The choice is about access.
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off-topic

Go start a thread about how wonderful oral deaf ed is. We are discussing Deaf teachers and their jobs.
 
faire_jour said:
Just responding to the untruth continually spread here.
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I grew up orally..I did NOT have full access to communication and language so did so many other deaf people and I continue to see it this day with deaf children coming from oral programs with language delays and deficits. U also see it with new members coming to AD upset about not feeling like they fit in. It still happens! How can that be the untruth? You have been applauding oralism and been critical of the Deaf community and ASL for a long time now so anything u say is gonna be taken with a grain of salt.

Now, back on topic.
 
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