Deaf teachers losing jobs because of English

rockdrummer said:
From what I have gathered based on my limited research is that this teacher in Mass. is deaf and teaches ASL. She has been getting waivers for the past 5 years to continue teaching while she works towards her teachers certification. There is a waiver program that will allow folks to continue teaching while they work towards certification. Right now they are talking about not letting her to continue to teach prior to waiting for the waiver approval whereas before they would let her continue teaching while the waiver was processed. What I think is happening is that she is not getting her certification due to failing the English competency test portion of the certification program. That is bringing into question the fairness of the English competency test for deaf folks. I didn't see anything yet about a hearing teacher taking the position.
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Well I was speaking more in general. People were complaining about hearing teachers of the deaf not being competent in ASL. So I was asking if its because there aren't enough deaf teachers or hearing people are getting hired over them (maybe because they do have their certification whereas deaf people do not?) I dunno. Just throwing questions out here.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Well, I'd hope so? Surely, you want those kids to be about to write and read English well?
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Especially if the teacher in question is teaching English literacy to deaf kids. In this case the teacher is teaching ASL which I am sure she is quite proficient in. IMO the question about the fairness of the English competency test for a deaf / hoh person is a good one. I just don't know enough about it yet to form an opinion.
 
rockdrummer said:
Especially if the teacher in question is teaching literacy to deaf kids. In this case the teacher is teaching ASL which I am sure she is quite proficient in. IMO the question about the fairness of the English competency test for a deaf / hoh person is a good one. I just don't know enough about it yet to form an opinion.
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You're right, 5 years is a long time. Shel, how often do they administer the test? Even if it's just once a year, allowing them to try it 5 times isn't bad.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Well I was speaking more in general. People were complaining about hearing teachers of the deaf not being competent in ASL. So I was asking if its because there aren't enough deaf teachers or hearing people are getting hired over them (maybe because they do have their certification whereas deaf people do not?) I dunno. Just throwing questions out here.
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Those are good questions. If in fact deaf folks are not getting certified due to an unfair test that discriminates, then I would agree that something should be done about it. I would hope that if there is discrimination in the certification program that those being discriminated against will stand up for their rights. I would imagine that proficiency in ASL by hearing teachers would depend somewhat on the type of program they are teaching in. I would tend to agree that teachers of deaf kids should have an ASL competency especially for those kids that come in with ASL as their mode of communication.
 
Buffalo said:
How can the kids learn English if they don't understand their teacher???
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They learn English from a person fluent in ASL but not so much in English?

Isn't that kind of like learning English from someone who can speak English but can't read it well?
 
Daredevel7 said:
They learn English from a person fluent in ASL but not so much in English?

Isn't that kind of like learning English from someone who can speak English but can't read it well?
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shel90 said:
I know some hearing teachers who had trouble passing the Praxis certification exams and were let go so yes, it applies to them too. I think this is more of an issue with Deaf educators since Deaf ed itself is not consistent and too many deaf children end up being shortchanged which affects them later on in life.
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I want you read this link: Praxis Test Flashcards Raise Praxis Exam Score Results with Free Praxis I Pre-Professional Skills Test (PPST) Sample Practice Test Prep Questions and Praxis I: Academic Skills Assessment Study Review Course for the Praxis I PPST Test Using Our Praxis

On a beautiful late spring afternoon, this past year, a young woman received some devastating news. She had just gotten back her Praxis I Test score. It wasn't what she had hoped for. In fact, it wasn't even close to her expectations and what she thought her 4.0 grade point average would help her score on the Praxis Test.

She knew that she could never become a teacher with a Praxis Test score that low.

Then she remembered her friends and felt even worse. All of her closest college friends had already gotten their Praxis Test scores back with excellent results. She had not been looking forward to taking the Praxis Test, because she hated standardized tests, and this only confirmed her hatred.
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Contrary to popular belief, the Praxis I PPST test is not a measure of your academic performance, which is why students with a perfect 4.0 GPA rarely have a perfect score on the Praxis Test.

The Praxis Test is quite simply - a measure of how well you did on the Praxis Test, which can be broken down into individual subtest scores on the Reading, Mathematics, Multiple-Choice Writing, and Essay Writing.

Teacher education programs use Praxis Test scores as a standardized measuring stick to evaluate individuals for admission. While it may not be fair, a student's entire career could be completely jeopardized by a single Praxis Test score.
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Now do you see why even if a deaf teacher has a good command of English could fail this Praxis test?
 
shel90 said:
If deaf teachers with poor English get jobs teaching ASL courses then there is no need for them to have good English due to not teaching in any of the content areas. However, for a hearing teacher teaching deaf kids using ASL, proficiency in ASL is very important. However, this thread is about deaf teachers teaching in all context areas not deaf teachers who teach ASL courses.

The certification exams are very very difficult. I didnt pass the first few times even though I have good English. The bar has been set very high and if people want it so high, fine, but the pay should be higher as well. Not $0.98 an hour in Deafbajagal's case. That's where people get turned off by this field and pursue other more rewarding fields.
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might sound crazy here, but i wonder if this poor control of teacher's pay has to do with sabotaging the whole point of TOD's references in employing d/Deaf teachers/ and/or teachers carrying out classes in ASL, or similar. call me nuts i dont care, but its compelling somethings seriously wrong - somewhere.
 
Daredevel7 said:
You're right, 5 years is a long time. Shel, how often do they administer the test? Even if it's just once a year, allowing them to try it 5 times isn't bad.
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It costs almost $200 dollars to take that damn test. Who can afford to take it so many times? I dont think it really measures how one can be a good teacher or not.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Well, I'd hope so? Surely, you want those kids to be about to write and read English well?
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How can they if they cant understand their teachers in the first place?

Like I and Deafbajalgal said before, we know a few teachers who have brought their students' reading and writing skills up to par but were unable to pass these tests themselves. Also, I know peoeple who cant teach worth of shit who have passed this test.

It is all about one's ability to teach the content and motivating the students rather than having perfect English skills.
 
shel90 said:
How can they if they cant understand their teachers in the first place?

Like I and Deafbajalgal said before, we know a few teachers who have brought their students' reading and writing skills up to par but were unable to pass these tests themselves. Also, I know peoeple who cant teach worth of shit who have passed this test.

It is all about one's ability to teach the content and motivating the students rather than having perfect English skills.
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But that applies for every single test/certification out there. Some people who do well on the SAT don't do well in college and some people who didn't do well on the SAT did well in college.

However, does this apply for the majority? Probably not. Are there tests that 100% ACCURATELY predict how you do in a job? Probably not. Probably most teachers who pass the certification test are good teachers (you did pass after all, right? :) )

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that someone teaching ASL only doesn't really need to get certified. However, how about a teacher of the deaf who teaches the typical subjects?
 
One question... if there are questions related to aural capabilities such as phonetics, as some pinpoint why they fail, why does the authorities have done nothing to correct it? Have anyone brought this to the designers' attention? If not, it is just a matter of not standing up for your rights.
 
I raised in the different school from north, south, east, and west. They are doing the different teaching to deaf student. I am glad that I have seen and it develop my strong sense to hungry success. Myself, I didn't get college degree due many issue with family.

Back to point... I read several post on what you guy mention but want to share what I see.

I have see the teacher who doesn't understand the Deaf culture or history that I have been taught. In other school, I was require. I mean no 'but', I am require to know Deaf culture in order for me into high school. I support those program because they are prepare for Deaf person become adult and knows their right. The fail, they are not making easier for Deaf student to improve English.

When I got into college and met a wonderful teacher that impact my root problem with English that become barrier to clear. Yes, I am do cont. improving with my English. What I see that college with English course. I was like why can't other teacher be like her/him those tool are helpful.

Again, failure to be Parent didn't do their homework to provide their child who is Deaf and getting educate need. For example; oral is very important to improve their English? Some, because we have two thinking is picture in head or vision while the hand is writing and not vision or thinking. It just writing out and then you read say out loud. You will say different than what the paper says. Other choice, write as normal then re-reading to see what it need more information or expand as for English grammar sake.

Second, reading the book as practice will improve their English write? Yes but to fail those student or parent that they don't read noble book such as horror or loving book those book isn't prefect English grammar. I was surprise my professor English teacher make point at this because I asked professor to seek cont improving English grammar.

Third, caption on television has thousand missing word or not complete sentence due for Deaf sake that can understand in ASL sentence. How often do we see 'was' on caption because the picture show us a thousand words.

Final part about certificate; I do strong believe they need one for each two years during the Summer. About the pay course; government or tax with IRS should have some kind refund program to pay back to cont. program improve. Due they passed law about 'Left Child Behind', I don't understand some state doesn't require workshop about objective improvement with Deaf student with mainstream classes. It can also benefit for school for Deaf to aware what score that weak that need improve strength and some teacher could be out of idea how that student improve their strength their functional learning.

So therefore; all teacher should have workshop in the Summer, why do we have Summer as kid get break. When I read several post that I didn't realized how hard those who is teacher and get underpaid that do grade stuff at home until 2am. I think its should some write off tax or something to help out with teacher's need or ask "do me favor, I need some discount instead pay twice bill..." I believe they deserve something and not empty due their hard work to improve who is passive with student's success.
 
souggy said:
One question... if there are questions related to aural capabilities such as phonetics, as some pinpoint why they fail, why does the authorities have done nothing to correct it? Have anyone brought this to the designers' attention? If not, it is just a matter of not standing up for your rights.
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I strong to believe that we should have some kind program under federal program; US Department of Education. It doesn't include as "DEAF" Education for another program which is my concerned because my question. Are they aware about it?

Here the link, http://www.nichcy.org/Pages/Home.aspx, but I felt it not enough source for parent/teacher/school get benefit information.
 
souggy said:
One question... if there are questions related to aural capabilities such as phonetics, as some pinpoint why they fail, why does the authorities have done nothing to correct it? Have anyone brought this to the designers' attention? If not, it is just a matter of not standing up for your rights.
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Valid questions and a good point. I read how this particular case was viewed by some as blatent discrimination. If that is the case then maybe it's a matter of standing up for your rights and perhaps a precident can be set so that this type of thing doesn't happen in the future.
 
rockdrummer said:
Valid questions and a good point. I read how this particular case was viewed by some as blatent discrimination. If that is the case then maybe it's a matter of standing up for your rights and perhaps a precident can be set so that this type of thing doesn't happen in the future.
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My brother and a couple of other would-be teachers are starting a advocacy group regarding this. I think there is one forming in PA too.
 
shel90 said:
My brother and a couple of other would-be teachers are starting a advocacy group regarding this. I think there is one forming in PA too.
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I have never been discriminated against so I really don't know what it is like nor do I know how a person would go about standing up for their rights. What I can tell you is that if it happened to me, I would figure it out and do whatever is necessary to enforce current laws or invoke change. I wish your brother and the advocy group all the best!!
 
rockdrummer said:
I have never been discriminated against so I really don't know what it is like nor do I know how a person would go about standing up for their rights. What I can tell you is that if it happened to me, I would figure it out and do whatever is necessary to enforce current laws or invoke change. I wish your brother and the advocy group all the best!!
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Thanks..I will give him the word. :)
 
shel90 said:
My brother and a couple of other would-be teachers are starting a advocacy group regarding this. I think there is one forming in PA too.
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If there is something I can do to help you guys out, give me a shout.
 
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