Deaf + HOH + CI <------> Deaf + (HOH + CI)

How to look at hearing impairment:

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    21
jillio said:
No, because, by your own admission in the first post, CI creates "almost normal" hearing. Almost normal is not normal, and therefore, is still HH.
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Agreed ! I lost my 'natural' hearing and it cannot be restored by any device.
 
I choose three types with the usual caveat there are differences in ability amongst those with a CI. There are those that for all practical purposes that are hearing with a CI thus necessitating the third category. The rest would be consigned to the HOH category.
 
What better, completely unassailable information is shared than one's own? U go, Shel.
 
shel90 said:
Ah yes, but in this post, his daughter is heairng like a hearing person so I am just confused...


can assure you ( and I am aware that "result vary per person..) that Lotte can hear at the level of a hearing person.... decibel-wise. Of course, understanding is on the way....

So which is it..almost hearing or actual hearing?
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obviously you didn't parse the word "decibel-wise"
 
Boult said:
obviously you didn't parse the word "decibel-wise"
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Ok..so what the meaning of "almost normal" hearing or "hearing at a hearing person's level decibal-wise"? Is there a difference? In my opinion there is a big difference but maybe in your and Cloggy's view, u have a different interpretation?
 
shel90 said:
Ok..so what the meaning of "almost normal" hearing or "hearing at a hearing person's level decibal-wise"? Is there a difference? In my opinion there is a big difference but maybe in your and Cloggy's view, u have a different interpretation?
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in his first post;
up to a level that is almost as good to normal hearing.
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he meant decibel-wise because of the word "level" he didn't say anything about "like" a hearing person" he was talking about hearing level<--- LEVEL

like how much his daughter can hear AT... 10dBL or 20dBL not about comprehending like hearing person.

I can hear at near normal hearing level. meaning I can hear all the sound that hearing person hear at that level I hear. like I could hear the car alarm going off outside in the parking lot from inside my apt with front door closed! I could hear the bird screaming outside in the morning while I am inside. Earlier today, I could hear all those leaf blower going on outside I mean my apt is supposed to be insulated from loud noise outside but still can hear them. if I wore hearing aid I only can hear up to 50dbl and wont' hear those I mentioned above.
 
Boult said:
in his first post; he meant decibel-wise because of the word "level" he didn't say anything about "like" a hearing person" he was talking about hearing level<--- LEVEL

like how much his daughter can hear AT... 10dBL or 20dBL not about comprehending like hearing person.

I can hear at near normal hearing level. meaning I can hear all the sound that hearing person hear at that level I hear. like I could hear the car alarm going off outside in the parking lot from inside my apt with front door closed! I could hear the bird screaming outside in the morning while I am inside. Earlier today, I could hear all those leaf blower going on outside I mean my apt is supposed to be insulated from loud noise outside but still can hear them. if I wore hearing aid I only can hear up to 50dbl and wont' hear those I mentioned above.
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Ok thanks for clarifying it for me. It makes better sense now.
 
Ok, Boult, granted; however, I will hazard a guess that between the two, "decibel-wise" and "understanding" (or comprehension), the understanding/comprehension is the major battle. Wish nothing but the best for her, too.
 
Tousi said:
Ok, Boult, granted; however, I will hazard a guess that between the two, "decibel-wise" and "understanding" (or comprehension), the understanding/comprehension is the major battle. Wish nothing but the best for her, too.
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For me when it comes to hearing, it is about comprehension which is why I got confused by these statements. In their view it was about decibel levels.

Yea, the understanding/comprehension is the major battle cuz the children need that to be able to develop literacy skills. Yes, it is nice to hear environmental sounds and I agree that it is great to have but I get nervous when it comes to the issue of how much the children really can comprehend everything. It varies from each CI user...I like to use both languages to make sure the children are comprehending everything whether it is visually or auditory or even both! :)
 
Shel - maybe it would be easier if people realized that "able to hear" (as Cloggy mentioned) does NOT necessarily mean "able to COMPREHEND 100% what you hear".

I know many people who are 'normal hearing people" - but they don't hear everything. I don't think anybody has "perfect hearing." My mom is hearing, and has meniere's disease, and in some situations *I*, with my CI, comprehend what I'm hearing better than she does!!!

From a clinical standpoint, having a CI can make somebody "HOH" when you are measuring decibels, but its no assurance that they will be taking what they hear and turning it into speech or recognizable sound.

Its an interesting question you ask, Cloggy - but through it all, even WITH a CI a person on the biological level is still deaf- and perhaps MORE deaf than they originally were (since residual hearing is destroyed in some situations.) I don't know if its really necessary to have the categories though. I think the situation is akin to the avatar I use -"deaf....BUT I can hear!"
 
neecy said:
Shel - maybe it would be easier if people realized that "able to hear" (as Cloggy mentioned) does NOT necessarily mean "able to COMPREHEND 100% what you hear".
That's fine..I have no objections to that. It was just a misunderstanding on my part of what Cloggy was really referring to when he made that statement.
I know many people who are 'normal hearing people" - but they don't hear everything. I don't think anybody has "perfect hearing." My mom is hearing, and has meniere's disease, and in some situations *I*, with my CI, comprehend what I'm hearing better than she does!!!

From a clinical standpoint, having a CI can make somebody "HOH" when you are measuring decibels, but its no assurance that they will be taking what they hear and turning it into speech or recognizable sound.

Its an interesting question you ask, Cloggy - but through it all, even WITH a CI a person on the biological level is still deaf- and perhaps MORE deaf than they originally were (since residual hearing is destroyed in some situations.) I don't know if its really necessary to have the categories though. I think the situation is akin to the avatar I use -"deaf....BUT I can hear!"
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Good point...so even with HAs and probably hearing at 90 dB with them, is it safe for me to say I am deaf but I can hear? I just feel that would give people the impression that I can hear like a hearing person so I usually say "I am deaf but I can read lips and speak." I dont know if that makes a difference when I encounter hearing people who meet me for the first time.
 
shel90 said:
Ah yes, but in this post, his daughter is heairng like a hearing person so I am just confused...


can assure you ( and I am aware that "result vary per person..) that Lotte can hear at the level of a hearing person.... decibel-wise. Of course, understanding is on the way....

So which is it..almost hearing or actual hearing?
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I agree with you completely... he always posts two different sides.. I find it very hard to believe him.....i had seen pix of Lotte... she is so beautiful...
 
SxyPorkie said:
I agree with you completely... he always posts two different sides.. I find it very hard to believe him.....i had seen pix of Lotte... she is so beautiful...
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I finally got it thanks to Boult for clearing it up for me.Cloggy was referring to the decibal level not the comprehension level. Both are different...maybe that is how the misunderstanding started?
 
shel90 said:
I finally got it thanks to Boult for clearing it up for me.Cloggy was referring to the decibal level not the comprehension level. Both are different...maybe that is how the misunderstanding started?
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Perhaps???
 
SxyPorkie said:
Perhaps???
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Who knows? With communicating via Internet, misunderstandings can happen easily cuz we cant see each other's facial expressions or cant clarify thru person what we all mean by this or that.
 
shel90 said:
Good point...so even with HAs and probably hearing at 90 dB with them, is it safe for me to say I am deaf but I can hear? I just feel that would give people the impression that I can hear like a hearing person so I usually say "I am deaf but I can read lips and speak." I dont know if that makes a difference when I encounter hearing people who meet me for the first time.
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It really depends how well you are able to use a CI especially in terms of hearing and speech. For somebody like me, 95% would never know it that I have a CI. Some might notice it and think it is cool color HA (happened to me a couple of times and every now and then a rare bird knows what it really is...:D ) since I wear baseball hats most of the time.

So given all this, people simply take me as hearing and I don't get all hot or bothered that I'm actually deaf as long as I can communicate on their terms. In other words, if one can carry it off consistently, then it sort of becomes a moot point in the scheme of things.

The big thing is to never forget that while one can act "hearing", one is definitely not hearing simply due to the nature of the beast. One example is that they will hear the distant thunder before I do every time. There are other little reminders but it is no big deal. Anybody who has a CI, no matter how good they are with one, is honest with themselves about it. If not, more fool they... :whistle:
 
shel90 said:
I finally got it thanks to Boult for clearing it up for me.Cloggy was referring to the decibal level not the comprehension level. Both are different...maybe that is how the misunderstanding started?
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I have to admit that I was confused too. :confused: I didn't realize Cloggy was referring to dB level as opposed to comprehension. :dunno:
 
then the CI "group" would have to be further subdivided into those who get the CI's while young and become fully oral/aural, and those who get the CI's at whatever age and still depend on sign language and lip reading for full communication
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Well to correct that.............they STILL have found that the CI varies tremendously in terms of benifit. Just as with hearing aids, benifit can range to just enviromental sound, to being functionally hoh.
Cloggy, even the best users of CI aren't hearing. They don't hear like hearing people. (and if they do then how come CI MEMS, which make hearing more "nautral" sounding are being pursued?) The only "pretty much hearing" folks are UNILATERALLY dhh folks! (and even THEY have their problems, like localizing sound or hearing in noisy situions that normally hearing people don't)
I am an amazing user of my hearing aids. I can hear the TV downstairs with my aids. I can hear things like sneakers on astroturf etc etc.
BUT even with all that I am STILL hoh even with my aids on!
One thing that I don't think you quite understand is that quite a lot of the "understanding" speech with CI or hearing aids comes from hearing people subconciously modifying their speech patterns to make it easier for us dhh folks to understand. I can understand people who modify their articualtion and enunciation perfectly, but that doesn't mean I'll be able to understand someone who doesn't have experiance interacting with dhh people. As a matter of fact, I remember when I was at college and summer camp, every time I would return I'd have to retrain everyone to interact with me. I can understand a lot of people, but not the way a hearing person can.......that is the SAME with virtually ALL dhh people!
What next? Are you going to claim that CI will enable people to understand people with really thick accents? People with VERY soft voices or peopel who don't enunicate/articualte that well?
 
I don't think that "CI" should be a label on its own. If we were to create new labels, then we would have to say "deaf CI", "HOH CI", "hearing CI", etc.

Some people get CI and still act the same as they were, socializing with deaf people, using sign language, etc. Some people get CI and change their behavior, talking more and signing less, socializing with hearing people more, etc. Some people get CI and consider themselves "hearing"... avoiding deaf people, stop signing, socialize with hearing people only, treat deaf people with disrespect or look them down, etc.
 
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