Deaf Education research......

[faire_jour]

Disagree. It is infinately easier for the parent. They just tell themselves how hard it is so they can justify not putting the child's needs first.

How would you possibly know? Have you actually raised a child with ASL as their primary language AND raised one who uses spoken language as their primary language? Have you experienced both sets of professionals, the knowledge needed to be provide the tools for success? Worked with both kinds of schools? Dealt with interpreters AND spoken language accomidations?

I was under the impression that you raised your child with ASL and English, but that spoken language was not his primary language. That is a totally different path than auditory oral, so how would you know what it entails?

What we need is a parent who provided ASL as a primary language at some point but also at another time focused on listening and spoken language, so they can actually compare the methodologies...

 

[jillio]

How would you possibly know? Have you actually raised a child with ASL as their primary language AND raised one who uses spoken language as their primary language? Have you experienced both sets of professionals, the knowledge needed to be provide the tools for success? Worked with both kinds of schools? Dealt with interpreters AND spoken language accomidations?

I was under the impression that you raised your child with ASL and English, but that spoken language was not his primary language. That is a totally different path than auditory oral, so how would you know what it entails?

What we need is a parent who provided ASL as a primary language at some point but also at another time focused on listening and spoken language, so they can actually compare the methodologies...

Can't have 2 primary languages. The meaning of primary is that it is the most used.

Just because I did not choose it does not mean that I do not know what it entails. In fact, because I do know what it entails is exactly the reason I stayed away from it. I saw exactly how damaging it can be to a child. The premises it operates from are emotionally and cognitively damaging.

 

[posts from hell]

How would you possibly know? Have you actually raised a child with ASL as their primary language AND raised one who uses spoken language as their primary language? Have you experienced both sets of professionals, the knowledge needed to be provide the tools for success? Worked with both kinds of schools? Dealt with interpreters AND spoken language accomidations?

I was under the impression that you raised your child with ASL and English, but that spoken language was not his primary language. That is a totally different path than auditory oral, so how would you know what it entails?

What we need is a parent who provided ASL as a primary language at some point but also at another time focused on listening and spoken language, so they can actually compare the methodologies...

We have an example of your last sentence right here on AD... And she says ASL is better. Try again.

 

[faire_jour]

Can't have 2 primary languages. The meaning of primary is that it is the most used.

Just because I did not choose it does not mean that I do not know what it entails. In fact, because I do know what it entails is exactly the reason I stayed away from it. I saw exactly how damaging it can be to a child. The premises it operates from are emotionally and cognitively damaging.

But you can change primary languages.

But you don't know because you claimed that you can have AV therapy without a parent present, and that isn't true. It is one of the fundamental operating principles, that the therapist is teaching the parent. If you were misinformed about that, what else are you missing?

 

[faire_jour]

We have an example of your last sentence right here on AD... And she says ASL is better. Try again.

Didn't ask "better", I asked which is more work for the parent. (Actually, you claimed that spoken language is easier for the parent, and I disagree.)

 

[jillio]

We have an example of your last sentence right here on AD... And she says ASL is better. Try again.

Not only that, but the methodologies have been compared since Milan. And the experts and the deaf all say ASL is best. The hearies intent on making the deaf resemble the hearing as closely as possible say spoken language and listening is best.

Right. And we should focus on seeing for blind kids, and walking for kids with severe spinal injuries.:roll:

 

[posts from hell]

Didn't ask "better", I asked which is more work for the parent. (Actually, you claimed that spoken language is easier for the parent, and I disagree.)

For a parent who doesnt know sign language - its easier just to be lazy and speak to the child.... Am I right?

 

[jillio]

Didn't ask "better", I asked which is more work for the parent. (Actually, you claimed that spoken language is easier for the parent, and I disagree.)

It is your language. You did not have to learn a thing about the language. All you had to learn were techniques that attempt to get the kid to mimic it.

 

[jillio]

For a parent who doesnt know sign language - its easier just to be lazy and speak to the child.... Am I right?

Absolutely.

 

[faire_jour]

For a parent who doesnt know sign language - its easier just to be lazy and speak to the child.... Am I right?

No, it is not even close to just that. That would be in the category of "doing nothing". There is way more to the auditory oral method that "just talking".

 

[jillio]

But you can change primary languages.

But you don't know because you claimed that you can have AV therapy without a parent present, and that isn't true. It is one of the fundamental operating principles, that the therapist is teaching the parent. If you were misinformed about that, what else are you missing?

Much much less than you are missing, that is obvious.

Yep, you can change primary languages. Deaf adults do it all the time after being restricted for their entire childhood to oral only.

 

[faire_jour]

It is your language. You did not have to learn a thing about the language. All you had to learn were techniques that attempt to get the kid to mimic it.

Not mimic. Is learning ASL "mimicking hand movements"? No, it's learning language.

 

[jillio]

No, it is not even close to just that. That would be in the category of "doing nothing". There is way more to the auditory oral method that "just talking".

Do you not see that everything you are saying is that it is much. much more difficult for the child to function from an oral / auditory perspective? And you are okay with making it harder for your child to communicate and learn? Why? Just so she can use voice?

 

[jillio]

Not mimic. Is learning ASL "mimicking hand movements"? No, it's learning language.

And the vast majority of children that are raised in an oral only environment mimic the function of language and never achieve native use. And why is it that oral children virtually all show language delays, while ASL children don't?

 

[faire_jour]

And the vast majority of children that are raised in an oral only environment mimic the function of language and never achieve native use. And why is it that oral children virtually all show language delays, while ASL children don't?

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

 

[Jiro]

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

see immigrants.

 

[deafgal001]

Wirelessly posted

And the vast majority of children that are raised in an oral only environment mimic the function of language and never achieve native use. And why is it that oral children virtually all show language delays, while ASL children don't?

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

Even delay to their own peers who speak the language?

 

[posts from hell]

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

Don't forget that there are PLENTY of hearing kids with language delays too.

 

[Tousi]

There are PLENTY of ASL using kids that have language delays! It is absurd to claim otherwise. 90% of their parents don't use the language and will never have the ability to converse above a preschool level. They have delays because they don't have proper language models. You are simply trading one kind of delay for another.

Heh, funny how you claim how much parents work sooooo hard and toil endlessly with much vigor and vitality for their child and then say these parents, faced with ASL, cannot possibly take this up, learn it, etc past "baby" talk......makes me laugh.....

 

[faire_jour]

Heh, funny how you claim how much parents work sooooo hard and toil endlessly with much vigor and vitality for their child and then say these parents, faced with ASL, cannot possibly take this up, learn it, etc past "baby" talk......makes me laugh.....

I said that responsible oral parents work hard, there are parents who do nothing. I never denied that. As for whether or not parents learn ASL, that is just a fact, 90% will never get past preschool level.