Deaf Education research......

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deafgal001 said:
stubborn parents are parents who do use oral approach, do everything they can, but refuse to add visual language. They keep changing and changing, fixing and fixing.
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It is a shame..a big one because I and many others have suffered from this obsession.
 
Shel. My theory is that if we really are going to show how superior deaf schools are to mainstream programs, we also have to focus on deaf schools, instead of only mocking poor mainstream programs.
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I didn't notice this before, but wanted to comment on it. I think shel was talking more about a solotaire mainstream approach rather then a formal established dhh mainstream program. Formal established programs can be really good (especially since many of them have been around for DECADES now) But the thing is, parents are pressured to maxstream their kids. (ie solotaire placement with minimal "one size fits all accomondations"
but not all parents do. Perhaps they simply want them to be deaf, not Deaf. Not everyone chooses to be a part of the ASL using Deaf community. Being Deaf is a choice, being deaf is not. Just by having a hearing loss, it does not make you part of the "Deaf world".
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On the other hand, I think a lot of parents who think that way may be operating under the assumption that b/c a kid is functionally hoh, or orally skilled they don't "need" Deaf Culture/ASL or they don't fit into it.
But the thing is, it needs to be the choice of the CHILD. Yes, there are some hoh kids who are pretty much "almost hearing" but there are still many hoh kids who are Deaf too!
And I mean a lot of the parents who aren't overenthusastic about ASL and Deaf culture still seem to have a lot of issues with totally and completely accepting their kids as they are. They view stuff like "ASL and Deaf culture as "crutches" or something that is very much special needs, or that inhibit healthy normal functioning.
 
deafdyke said:
I didn't notice this before, but wanted to comment on it. I think shel was talking more about a solotaire mainstream approach rather then a formal established dhh mainstream program. Formal established programs can be really good (especially since many of them have been around for DECADES now) But the thing is, parents are pressured to maxstream their kids. (ie solotaire placement with minimal "one size fits all accomondations"
On the other hand, I think a lot of parents who think that way may be operating under the assumption that b/c a kid is functionally hoh, or orally skilled they don't "need" Deaf Culture/ASL or they don't fit into it.
But the thing is, it needs to be the choice of the CHILD. Yes, there are some hoh kids who are pretty much "almost hearing" but there are still many hoh kids who are Deaf too!
And I mean a lot of the parents who aren't overenthusastic about ASL and Deaf culture still seem to have a lot of issues with totally and completely accepting their kids as they are. They view stuff like "ASL and Deaf culture as "crutches" or something that is very much special needs, or that inhibit healthy normal functioning.
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How do you know that? Do you actually ask the parents or are you making more assumptions? How can you possibly know why they make the choices they make?
 
I don't know about her, but I can speak for myself...I'm 31 years old and my father STILL tells people I'm not really deaf. He is STILL in complete denial that I am profoundly deaf. And he always make a point to tell people that I sign because I'm being "silly" but I can, and should, speak like "normal people." Many people in my family feels the same way as he do.
 
deafbajagal said:
I don't know about her, but I can speak for myself...I'm 31 years old and my father STILL tells people I'm not really deaf. He is STILL in complete denial that I am profoundly deaf. And he always make a point to tell people that I sign because I'm being "silly" but I can, and should, speak like "normal people." Many people in my family feels the same way as he do.
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Ouch.
 
And I thought I was bad. I have parents who learned signs 40 years ago when I was born deaf, and when they sign something that is so outdated that I don't remember it, they get mad.
 
deafbajagal said:
I don't know about her, but I can speak for myself...I'm 31 years old and my father STILL tells people I'm not really deaf. He is STILL in complete denial that I am profoundly deaf. And he always make a point to tell people that I sign because I'm being "silly" but I can, and should, speak like "normal people." Many people in my family feels the same way as he do.
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Then that is true in your case. He is completely in denial. The issue I have is with the broad brush that DD (and many here) chooses to paint all parent who do not choose ASL as their child's primary language.
 
Thank you deafbajagirl.
There ARE some parents of oral only dhh kids, who took the full toolbox route for early intervention. Their kids got both exposure to ASL AND speech. The kid decided that they didn't want to sign any more for whatever reason.
Most parents who opt for oral only do not do that. Granted, there are some who are open to ASL as a second language. Now that's OK and fine, as long as the progress in spoken language is very very carefully monitored. The private oral programs and even some of the really good public oral programs are now a lot better at reccomending that kids who don't have a "flair" for spoken English, be transfered to ASL using programs.
The thing is that you don't understand that we're not anti spoken English. We are anti
deciding a particualr tool is not going to provide any help to a kid, due to idelological posistion. The equalivant would be denying Braille or O&M training to a kid who's just low vision/legally blind, b/c they use their sight too well.
Also, unfortunatly, the oral programs do tend to use language and rhetoric that is very pro " your child doesn't need ASL or Cued Speech or another thing that is commonly thought of as a "traditional" deaf ed intervention. If they used language like " Your child can learn to hear and speak in addition to sign, you'd see a LOT of the opposition to oral only ed fall.
 
The issue I have is with the broad brush that DD (and many here) chooses to paint all parent who do not choose ASL as their child's primary language.
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Broad brush? No. We're not accusing them of being steretypical AG Bellers for whom exposure to ASL and Deaf culture is verboton. But a lot of oral only parents DO chose oral only for their kids b/c of subconscious psychological manipulation.
We're not talking about oral first, and then maybe introducing ASL when they're a bit older....That is a bit different.
 
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AlleyCat said:
deafbajagal said:
I don't know about her, but I can speak for myself...I'm 31 years old and my father STILL tells people I'm not really deaf. He is STILL in complete denial that I am profoundly deaf. And he always make a point to tell people that I sign because I'm being "silly" but I can, and should, speak like "normal people." Many people in my family feels the same way as he do.
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Ouch.
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My grandmas dad was very denial about my grandma's sisters being deaf. Which is why he severely punished my grandma and her sisters for using sign language. He wanted them to use their voice. She said he was very denial and didn't believe they are deaf. Is your father abusive type? It seem to me abusive type tend to be very denial. I guess it is about control. Its hard to explain except they are just mess up in their head.
 
deafbajagal said:
I don't know about her, but I can speak for myself...I'm 31 years old and my father STILL tells people I'm not really deaf. He is STILL in complete denial that I am profoundly deaf. And he always make a point to tell people that I sign because I'm being "silly" but I can, and should, speak like "normal people." Many people in my family feels the same way as he do.
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I would be happy to go up to him and tell him he's a bloody idiot and it's time for him to pull his head out of his arse. Pardon my french. :)
 
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faire_jour said:
posts from hell said:
As I have said before... Raising your child to fit in is not as good as introducing them to their world.
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And who are you to say what "their world" is? I chose to have my daughter be a part of the Deaf community, but not all parents do. Perhaps they simply want them to be deaf, not Deaf. Not everyone chooses to be a part of the ASL using Deaf community. Being Deaf is a choice, being deaf is not. Just by having a hearing loss, it does not make you part of the "Deaf world".
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I don't think Deaf Culture is just a culture. There's more to that made it into a culture. Raising a "d"eaf in a hearing culture isn't simply as some parents like it to be. If they are not careful, a deaf child can easily view themselves a broken version of hearing person.





Beside, if you gave birth to a black child, I think it is not all that simple to raise him in a white people culture.
 
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deafgal001 said:
RD, you already know that if a child don't have a language before he gets a CI (which can take a year, sometimes two years depending on if a doctor think they would benefit from HAs), it would delay them. Which is why parents should sign to them so they don't waste any time. A hearing child usually say their first word at 8 months or so.
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That is not the issue. Yes I agree you should use sign language regardless of your decision and I have always maintained this. This has nothing to do with my post or my question.
 
deafgal001 said:
babies can lipread :) They also can sign "I love deaf" before CI surgery too.

I already know parents are taking actions. I was talking to Rockdrummer about certain topic and it is not about parents doing nothing.
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Babies can lipread? Really? :confused:
 
rockdrummer said:
Babies can lipread? Really? :confused:
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Actually, I am not surprised about this. I was able to "understand" my mom when I was a baby. Just because a baby can lipread them does not mean they KNOW what you are saying or they can repeat it. But the formation of the lips are the same every time my mom says it and I associate the lip formation with whatever she is talking about. Same concept with teaching babies ASL. You show them a hand formation and give them juice. Then they associate the hand formation with juice.

Why do you think my mom took so long to figure out that I was deaf? ;)
 
Daredevel7 said:
Actually, I am not surprised about this. I was able to "understand" my mom when I was a baby. Just because a baby can lipread them does not mean they KNOW what you are saying or they can repeat it. But the formation of the lips are the same every time my mom says it and I associate the lip formation with whatever she is talking about. Same concept with teaching babies ASL. You show them a hand formation and give them juice. Then they associate the hand formation with juice.

Why do you think my mom took so long to figure out that I was deaf? ;)
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to me... and anyone correct me if I am wrong, lipreading is a technique of understanding speech by visually interpreting the movements of the lips which means a deaf person can watch the mouth movements of someone that is speaking and be able to determine what they are saying. While I agree that a baby can watch and mimic mouth movements, I don't agree that equates to lipreading by definition. With that said, I don't know that anyone who is pre-lingual can lipread.
 
rockdrummer said:
to me... and anyone correct me if I am wrong, lipreading is a technique of understanding speech by visually interpreting the movements of the lips which means a deaf person can watch the mouth movements of someone that is speaking and be able to determine what they are saying. While I agree that a baby can watch and mimic mouth movements, I don't agree that equates to lipreading by definition. With that said, I don't know that anyone who is pre-lingual can lipread.
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Oh well, now you are talking about word semantics....

"What does lipreading REALLY mean???"

Today, I don't have the energy to get into that, especially here on AD!!! :)

P.S. Here is a question to ponder. I have a hard time telling the difference between 15 and 50. If someone tells me "It will be 23 dollars and 15 cents", I will be uncertain what they said. Does this mean I am a bad lipreader? However, if someone tells me "I am 15 years old". I know exactly what he said because he couldn't possibly be 50. Does this mean I'm a good lipreader?
 
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rockdrummer said:
deafgal001 said:
babies can lipread :) They also can sign "I love deaf" before CI surgery too.

I already know parents are taking actions. I was talking to Rockdrummer about certain topic and it is not about parents doing nothing.
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Babies can lipread? Really? :confused:
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I do not believe they can. I was simply pointing out that expecting a deaf baby to wear hearing aids to access a language before they get a CI is NOT the best tool to access spoken language. They need to see your lips at all time. But are they a pro at speechreading before the age of two?The only good hearing aids does is get them prepare for CI.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Oh well, now you are talking about word semantics....

"What does lipreading REALLY mean???"

Today, I don't have the energy to get into that, especially here on AD!!! :)

P.S. Here is a question to ponder. I have a hard time telling the difference between 15 and 50. If someone tells me "It will be 23 dollars and 15 cents", I will be uncertain what they said. Does this mean I am a bad lipreader? However, if someone tells me "I am 15 years old". I know exactly what he said because he couldn't possibly be 50. Does this mean I'm a good lipreader?
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I have a friend who made just that mistake. He thought he was getting this German Shepard puppy for 15 dollars and when he realized it was gonna be 50 dollars, he named the dog, "Fifty"! :lol: It was a really great dog, btw.....
 
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