Deaf Education - One size does not fit all

fredfam1 said:
There has recently been a phenomenal growth in
homeschooling with a number of families starting
there own private schools to teach other kids
whose parents didn't feel they could take on such
a job. What about fluent ASL signers starting
private schools in order to teach ASL only
educational programs? I wish I were fluent! Then
I would start one myself. I've been homeschooling
for 20 years with much success. My kids were all
above 90th percentile by the time they graduated.
And some of them had learning disabilities. This
could be a wonderful opportunity for people with
the right skills! CODA s would be good for this!
Or just any Deaf person who can teach. Total
immersion would be cool too. I would take my
kids every day if someone local offered that,
and we could trade. I could teach their kids
English.
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I think it's a great idea. There are a number of charter schools being opened to accomplish just this. Hearing and deaf students educated together using a Bi-Bi philosophy. I think it is a very beneficial trend for both hearing and deaf students.
 
They use the Bi-Bi program at Ernest C. Drury School for the Deaf.
 
jillio said:
Yes. This is one of the Bi-Bi Canadian programs.
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Unfortunately, I can't say that the education they provide at the school is something to be proud of. The problem is, a lot of students enrolled at that school are often students who did not do well at the schools they previously attended.

Not only to mention that students don't take Academic English courses. Instead, they take English as a Second Language courses without telling them what the difference is.

I should know, I used to attend that school.
 
Banjo said:
Unfortunately, I can't say that the education they provide at the school is something to be proud of. The problem is, a lot of students enrolled at that school are often students who did not do well at the schools they previously attended.

Not only to mention that students don't take Academic English courses. Instead, they take English as a Second Language courses without telling them what the difference is.

I should know, I used to attend that school.
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Unfortunately, in the States, that is a problem with many of the Bi-Bi programs, as well. I think shel can attest to the fact that many of the students she gets are referred after having been labeled "oral failures" or have begun to experience problems with academic content that don't show up until the the 4th or 5th grade, approximately.

That is a problem if they are only offering English as a second language without offering things such as composition classes or literature classes. The whole purpose of learning English as a second language is to make the student able to access literature and to develop proficient writing skills. If students who have English as a first language take classes in formal English use and reading, then students who have English as a second language most certainly should, too. I would never advocate for ESL as being the only English classes offered. My committment is to ESL techniques being used to facilitate learning in classes focused on things like composition and literature. Certainly, once a child has gained a strong foundation in English as an L2 language, they should be receiving class work that will allow them to use those skills and refine them.

BTW, you have obviously overcome the problems with the system, and found opportunities on your own to refine your skills.
 
Cheri said:
So DeafMonkey was in the Bi Bi program?
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Angel said:
You went to school with DeafMonkey?..
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Well, I was in elementary section of the school while she was in the secondary school. But yes, we rode on the same taxi. We did go to the same school but in separate buildings. She graduated before I entered the secondary building.

Yes, both of us were in the Bi-Bi program. I did exceptionally well, I was one of the top students in the school. At that time, cochlear implants were still not making a big impact so the students did somewhere better compared to the students enrolled there now.
 
jillio said:
Unfortunately, in the States, that is a problem with many of the Bi-Bi programs, as well. I think shel can attest to the fact that many of the students she gets are referred after having been labeled "oral failures" or have begun to experience problems with academic content that don't show up until the the 4th or 5th grade, approximately.

That is a problem if they are only offering English as a second language without offering things such as composition classes or literature classes. The whole purpose of learning English as a second language is to make the student able to access literature and to develop proficient writing skills. If students who have English as a first language take classes in formal English use and reading, then students who have English as a second language most certainly should, too. I would never advocate for ESL as being the only English classes offered. My committment is to ESL techniques being used to facilitate learning in classes focused on things like composition and literature. Certainly, once a child has gained a strong foundation in English as an L2 language, they should be receiving class work that will allow them to use those skills and refine them.

BTW, you have obviously overcome the problems with the system, and found opportunities on your own to refine your skills.
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I definitely overcame the problems with the system. No doubt about that and I can thank my parents for playing a big part in it. You may be unaware of the fact that there are in fact, 2 separate high schools on the same campus. One is ran by the Halton School Board and one is ran by the government. You can guess which one is ran by the government.

Anyway, the one being managed by Halton is much better in comparison to the government-funded school. There is a special program where they let the deaf students take courses in the other school with interpreters. It's basically an integrated program that is shared by both schools to the deaf student's benefit. They both share the same building, though we don't really socialize with each other that much. We do prefer to socialize with our own kind due to the fact that we can sign in ASL.
 
Banjo said:
Well, I was in elementary section of the school while she was in the secondary school. But yes, we rode on the same taxi. We did go to the same school but in separate buildings. She graduated before I entered the secondary building.

Yes, both of us were in the Bi-Bi program. I did exceptionally well, I was one of the top students in the school. At that time, cochlear implants were still not making a big impact so the students did somewhere better compared to the students enrolled there now.
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Wow small world, that's cool!
 
Banjo said:
I definitely overcame the problems with the system. No doubt about that and I can thank my parents for playing a big part in it. You may be unaware of the fact that there are in fact, 2 separate high schools on the same campus. One is ran by the Halton School Board and one is ran by the government. You can guess which one is ran by the government.

Anyway, the one being managed by Halton is much better in comparison to the government-funded school. There is a special program where they let the deaf students take courses in the other school with interpreters. It's basically an integrated program that is shared by both schools to the deaf student's benefit. They both share the same building, though we don't really socialize with each other that much. We do prefer to socialize with our own kind due to the fact that we can sign in ASL.
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I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

You don't need to tell me which one is government run, LOL.

Socialization is a very important part of education. That is one of the reasons that I see problems with a fully mainstream placement where there is 1 deaf child in a school of 300-400 students. The only person they can fully communicate with, and socialize with throughout the entire day is their terp. That is not a situation that facilitates social skills.
 
jillio said:
I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

You don't need to tell me which one is government run, LOL.

Socialization is a very important part of education. That is one of the reasons that I see problems with a fully mainstream placement where there is 1 deaf child in a school of 300-400 students. The only person they can fully communicate with, and socialize with throughout the entire day is their terp. That is not a situation that facilitates social skills.
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I have seen that too many times.


If there was a BiBi program using ASL and English being offered for hearing kids as well, I would enroll my son in it for sure.

Arizona has a BiBi charter school for both deaf and hearing kids. I think that would be my idea of a perfect program because the deaf kids can learn how to deal with situations when the hearing kids use spoken language without singing. That would be a good skills for them to develop.
 
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jillio said:
Unfortunately, in the States, that is a problem with many of the Bi-Bi programs, as well. I think shel can attest to the fact that many of the students she gets are referred after having been labeled "oral failures" or have begun to experience problems with academic content that don't show up until the the 4th or 5th grade, approximately.

The majority of the student population have been referred to us after falling so far behind. I wish it was the other way around. *sighs*

That is a problem if they are only offering English as a second language without offering things such as composition classes or literature classes. The whole purpose of learning English as a second language is to make the student able to access literature and to develop proficient writing skills. If students who have English as a first language take classes in formal English use and reading, then students who have English as a second language most certainly should, too. I would never advocate for ESL as being the only English classes offered. My committment is to ESL techniques being used to facilitate learning in classes focused on things like composition and literature. Certainly, once a child has gained a strong foundation in English as an L2 language, they should be receiving class work that will allow them to use those skills and refine them.

BTW, you have obviously overcome the problems with the system, and found opportunities on your own to refine your skills.
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I agree...

Banjo, from reading your insightful posts here on AD it is apparent that u have overcome the limitations of the system. Way to go!
 
shel90 said:
jillio said:
I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!

You don't need to tell me which one is government run, LOL.

Socialization is a very important part of education. That is one of the reasons that I see problems with a fully mainstream placement where there is 1 deaf child in a school of 300-400 students. The only person they can fully communicate with, and socialize with throughout the entire day is their terp. That is not a situation that facilitates social skills.[/QUOTE]


I have seen that too many times.


If there was a BiBi program using ASL and English being offered for hearing kids as well, I would enroll my son in it for sure.

Arizona has a BiBi charter school for both deaf and hearing kids. I think that would be my idea of a perfect program because the deaf kids can learn how to deal with situations when the hearing kids use spoken language without singing. That would be a good skills for them to develop.
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Yeah, the charter schools have taken a great idea and made it even better by adding integration.
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jillio said:
I like the idea of an integrated setting. There are a few charter schools opening around the U.S. that educate both deaf and hearing students using a Bi-Bi approach with ASL and English. I see that as a benefit to both. Especially in the case of deaf and hearing siblings. What an advantage that would be!
Click to expand...

That would had been nice. It was only for our benefit to get a better education. The hearing students weren't enrolled in any of our programs, probably due to the fact that our school is intended for deaf and hard of hearing students. Though they did have one program where hearing students could enroll in and that was the ASL class. Quite a number of the students enrolled in the program are now professional interpreters.

If we had fully integrated the Bi-Bi program in both schools, I could see it making a difference since they are already required to take French classes while we weren't. It would had been nice if I was able to take French classes. Oh well.
 
Banjo said:
That would had been nice. It was only for our benefit to get a better education. The hearing students weren't enrolled in any of our programs, probably due to the fact that our school is intended for deaf and hard of hearing students. Though they did have one program where hearing students could enroll in and that was the ASL class. Quite a number of the students enrolled in the program are now professional interpreters.

If we had fully integrated the Bi-Bi program in both schools, I could see it making a difference since they are already required to take French classes while we weren't. It would had been nice if I was able to take French classes. Oh well.
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Speaking of taking other foreign language classes while at the Deaf school...my brother took basic Spanish at the nearby public high school (magnet program) and he said that he could understand Spanish better than English cuz the syntax of ASL resembles to Spanish.

I am not fluent in even the basics of Spanish but a lot of deaf people have told me that about ASL and Spanish. I thought it was interesting...
 
shel90 said:
Speaking of taking other foreign language classes while at the Deaf school...my brother took basic Spanish at the nearby public high school (magnet program) and he said that he could understand Spanish better than English cuz the syntax of ASL resembles to Spanish.

I am not fluent in even the basics of Spanish but a lot of deaf people have told me that about ASL and Spanish. I thought it was interesting...
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English is one of the most unique languages and so different from pretty every other language out there. It's incredibly difficult to learn, it's a wonder we, deaf people even managed to understand it in the first place! Of course, I don't find it difficult to read and write English because I grew up with it. But I do understand why so many people find it difficult.

French, Spanish, Italian and such languages share similar syntaxes and rules.
 
Banjo said:
That would had been nice. It was only for our benefit to get a better education. The hearing students weren't enrolled in any of our programs, probably due to the fact that our school is intended for deaf and hard of hearing students. Though they did have one program where hearing students could enroll in and that was the ASL class. Quite a number of the students enrolled in the program are now professional interpreters.

If we had fully integrated the Bi-Bi program in both schools, I could see it making a difference since they are already required to take French classes while we weren't. It would had been nice if I was able to take French classes. Oh well.
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Hopefully, we can all take a lesson from the charter school, and start to push for an integrated Bi-Bi system for the benefit of all students. The deaf school my son attended also offered their deaf students the opportunity to take some classes with hearing students in a public school about a mile and a half from the deaf school. But, as you said, it was to improve the deaf students opportunities moreso than any benefit it provided for the hearing kids. The public school also offered ASL classes for the hearing students, and they had an extracurricular program where all of the hearing and deaf students got together for social activities. It was an improvement, but still not complete integration the way it should be to offer maximum benefit for all the students.
 
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