Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

[flip]

There are a lot of factors that may be reasons why parents do not learn sign language. 1). They've been told that using sign language will hinder the child from learning oral language (manyof us in the teaching field do not agree with this) 2). They lack the resources of learning (no money for formal classes or babysitters used in order to go to classes, no internet to learn from websites, do not have English as native language so difficult to find books in their native languages, etc.) 3) Using sign language may mean they have to address and accept the fact the child is deaf - many parents go through years of denial 4) stigma of using sign language means (to them) that the child is not "normal" 5) Fear that the child will pick up signing faster than them (most children will) and they (parents) will not be able to catch up/ fear of being left out 6) Learning how to sign is difficult, especially because it is visual ; many parents say it is too hard to remember everything they've learned because they don't use it with other adults, just with their child. 7) They do not know other d/Deaf adults or do not interact with the deaf community

* My father never learned sign language - I think it embarrassed him. Even to his day he is in denial that I'm Deaf. Ironically he is fluent in 4 other languages (other than English). My mother started to but stopped when a professional told her that she was doing harm to my language and speech development. My mother now regrets it.

You explained it so well! This is why I belive the american society have an attitude problem with ASL. A good step in the right direction, was the pepsi advertisement, I hope the trend we are seeing now with ASL in the universities and the field of linqustics will continue, making it less frightening for parents to use ASL.

 

[loml]

orginally posted by Holly

I'm a hearing person but I've known and heard of so many people who were deaf, as in completely or almost completely non hearing, whose parents never bothered to learn sign language

Holly - Have you ever directly asked these same parents that you have known, "Why they never bothered to learn sign language?"

Firstly, you might want to consider choosing different wording. "Never bothered", is really quite judgmental and considering that you and I, are not them, you nor I are not in the position to judge, imo. A family choosing or not choosing ASL, AVT, CS, TC etc. in and of itself does not make them "bad" families.

Raising children is a tough job. Add to this job the many dynamics of daily life; paired with familial dysfunction (which we all have) and this career of child rearing can/is at times an overwhelming, daunting life changing responsibility.

Providing families with current accurate information, regarding all of their communication and education options is optimum.

 

[Holly]

orginally posted by Holly



Holly - Have you ever directly asked these same parents that you have known, "Why they never bothered to learn sign language?"

Firstly, you might want to consider choosing different wording. "Never bothered", is really quite judgmental and considering that you and I, are not them, you nor I are not in the position to judge, imo. A family choosing or not choosing ASL, AVT, CS, TC etc. in and of itself does not make them "bad" families.

Raising children is a tough job. Add to this job the many dynamics of daily life; paired with familial dysfunction (which we all have) and this career of child rearing can/is at times an overwhelming, daunting life changing responsibility.

Providing families with current accurate information, regarding all of their communication and education options is optimum.

The people that I have known whose parents didn't use sl are adults now. I don't know their parents and they themselves have said that they learned later in life, and some went to deaf schools and began learning right away. A lot of the their parents had their kids learn it as a main form of communication. And the parents, in some cases, didn't incorporate any kind of oral learning for their child.

I never meant to appear to judge anyone, but in my opinion "never bother" is the best wording choice. Thats exactly what it is in some cases...some parents never bother to learn the language that comes natural to their children.

I know that being a parent isn't easy, but I also know that a good parent accepts their child for who they are and does what is best for the child, not what is easiest for the parent. You are right, every family has its problems. Some parents have children with severe behavior issues, some parents have kids who will be in wheelchairs their whole lives. You take what you are given and you do what you can with it. When you become a parent life stops being about you, and it starts being about what is best for your child. Imo if you aren't ready to deal with a child who has a "handicap" (for lack of a better word, no offense intended) then you shouldn't have sex!

Well, thats just my little rant for the day LOL.

 

[jillio]

orginally posted by Holly



Holly - Have you ever directly asked these same parents that you have known, "Why they never bothered to learn sign language?"

Firstly, you might want to consider choosing different wording. "Never bothered", is really quite judgmental and considering that you and I, are not them, you nor I are not in the position to judge, imo. A family choosing or not choosing ASL, AVT, CS, TC etc. in and of itself does not make them "bad" families.

Raising children is a tough job. Add to this job the many dynamics of daily life; paired with familial dysfunction (which we all have) and this career of child rearing can/is at times an overwhelming, daunting life changing responsibility.

Providing families with current accurate information, regarding all of their communication and education options is optimum.

And do you do that, loml? Or do you limit your information to CS?

 

[jillio]

The people that I have known whose parents didn't use sl are adults now. I don't know their parents and they themselves have said that they learned later in life, and some went to deaf schools and began learning right away. A lot of the their parents had their kids learn it as a main form of communication. And the parents, in some cases, didn't incorporate any kind of oral learning for their child.

I never meant to appear to judge anyone, but in my opinion "never bother" is the best wording choice. Thats exactly what it is in some cases...some parents never bother to learn the language that comes natural to their children.

I know that being a parent isn't easy, but I also know that a good parent accepts their child for who they are and does what is best for the child, not what is easiest for the parent. You are right, every family has its problems. Some parents have children with severe behavior issues, some parents have kids who will be in wheelchairs their whole lives. You take what you are given and you do what you can with it. When you become a parent life stops being about you, and it starts being about what is best for your child. Imo if you aren't ready to deal with a child who has a "handicap" (for lack of a better word, no offense intended) then you shouldn't have sex!

Well, thats just my little rant for the day LOL.

And, BTW, as a parent of a deaf child, I do not find your wording judgemental, nor offensive. Your points are, in fact, quite valid.

 

[VamPyroX]

So, you really do not know the difference between a HA and CI...
LEt's put it like this... When a HOH person cannot hear anymore with a HA... he/she is a candidate for a CI... (have a look here..)
So, for a child, losing some of the communication is OK. I believe that at best, lipreading allows to "read" 30% of what is said. The rest has to be "guessed"...

That's something I wish would remain that way. Nowadays, some cochlear implant companies have deals with some audiologists to refer clients when necessary. However, "necessary" isn't always the issue... but more of "encouragement" regardless of their hearing.

I have good hearing. I can hear well with a normal BTE hearing aid. Without a hearing aid, I can still hear if it's loud enough or if a person spoke directly into my ear.

I had a hearing test done last year with the school audiologist. When I finished the test, it was pretty much the same as every hearing test I've taken in the past. However, she suddenly mentioned... "You are a candidate for cochlear implants." Where did that come from? I wasn't asking for cochlear implants. I was simply taking the test so that I could get a new digital hearing aid. I told her that I just wanted a digital hearing aid, but she kept repeating that I was a candidate for CIs. She even went on to give me more information on who I could talk to for more information. I'm like, "Gee... no thanks. I'm done." She hesitated a bit before letting me go. I later found out from an interpreter friend who worked at the same college. It turns out that some audiologists do have deals with some cochlear implant companies so that they get recognition when their clients get CIs. :roll:

 

[VamPyroX]

So sign language is not a normal language?

What's your definition of "normal language"?

 

[VamPyroX]

Exactly... exposure to speech / oral is not forcing it.... ... Forcing sign on her would be...

I get that argument a lot. Some people misunderstand the difference between "exposure" and "force". It's like "rumor" and "gossip". :roll:

I think exposure is important for everyone. It broadens their minds and allows them to open up more to understand things better.

 

[Holly]

I get that argument a lot. Some people misunderstand the difference between "exposure" and "force". It's like "rumor" and "gossip". :roll:

I think exposure is important for everyone. It broadens their minds and allows them to open up more to understand things better.

I second that! Because of my parents work our family traveled a lot when I was growing up. I saw all different kinds of cultures and ways of life. It is very important to expose your children to other things.

 

[shel90]

What's your definition of "normal language"?

there is no such thing as normal or abnormal language. Language is the same regardless of which country it orginated from. I was replied to someone who said some things about language being normal.

 

[loml]

The people that I have known whose parents didn't use sl are adults now. I don't know their parents and they themselves have said that they learned later in life, and some went to deaf schools and began learning right away. A lot of the their parents had their kids learn it as a main form of communication. And the parents, in some cases, didn't incorporate any kind of oral learning for their child.

Holly - According to your reply, you have not provided any of these same parents an opportunity to discuss with you the who, what, where, when and why components of the decsions that they made for their children, (who are now adults).

I never meant to appear to judge anyone, but in my opinion "never bother" is the best wording choice. Thats exactly what it is in some cases...some parents never bother to learn the language that comes natural to their children.

Holly -Your statement is judgmental. You are basing your opinion of "the language that comes natural to their children" from? I would like to read this information. Would you please share it? Thanks.

I know that being a parent isn't easy, but I also know that a good parent accepts their child for who they are and does what is best for the child, not what is easiest for the parent. You are right, every family has its problems. Some parents have children with severe behavior issues, some parents have kids who will be in wheelchairs their whole lives. You take what you are given and you do what you can with it. When you become a parent life stops being about you, and it starts being about what is best for your child. Imo if you aren't ready to deal with a child who has a "handicap" (for lack of a better word, no offense intended) then you shouldn't have sex!

Well, thats just my little rant for the day LOL.

Holly - Copulating is what humans do,(not just humans of course), and I would wager a guess that most of us humans enjoy the activity

Looking forward to reading your source of "natural language". Thanks!!

Looking forward to reading your source of "natural language". Thanks.

 

[jillio]

Looking forward to reading your source of "natural language". Thanks.

Try registering for a linguistics 101 course. Then a course in linguistic psychology and a course in cognitive psychology will begin to answer your questions. Likewise, there has been much research already posted on this board rtegarding why a visual language is more natural to the deaf. If that were not the case, why CS?

 

[Holly]

Holly - According to your reply, you have not provided any of these same parents an opportunity to discuss with you the who, what, where, when and why components of the decsions that they made for their children, (who are now adults).
_____

perhaps you should read my answer to that again, I thought I clearly stated that I don't know their parents. If I could ask them I would.

_____

Holly -Your statement is judgmental. You are basing your opinion of "the language that comes natural to their children" from? I would like to read this information. Would you please share it? Thanks.

_____

I am basing it on the fact that children who are born deaf or hoh have trouble developing oral language skills because they cannot hear the correct sounds to make and therefore don't pick up on it as quickly. Hearing people often use hand gestures when the talk, doesn't it make sense that if you never heard well enough to reproduce oral sounds without help that you would use the next most available thing...your hands?

I did find an article on this once but I'm unable to find it right now. I will post it as soon as I do.

_____

Holly - Copulating is what humans do,(not just humans of course), and I would wager a guess that most of us humans enjoy the activity

_____

I don't recall ever saying that it isn't something that humans do...and just because its enjoyable doesn't mean that you should do it whenever.
Even if you use protection you still run the risk that you could get pregnant. Its easier on everyone if you simply wait until you can deal with any repercussions. I'm tired of my tax dollars paying for babies that mothers didn't want in the first place.

I will post my source of natural language as soon as I locate it on the web.

 

[Holly]

Try registering for a linguistics 101 course. Then a course in linguistic psychology and a course in cognitive psychology will begin to answer your questions. Likewise, there has been much research already posted on this board rtegarding why a visual language is more natural to the deaf. If that were not the case, why CS?

amen to that :p

 

[loml]

Holly - According to your reply, you have not provided any of these same parents an opportunity to discuss with you the who, what, where, when and why components of the decsions that they made for their children, (who are now adults).
_____

perhaps you should read my answer to that again, I thought I clearly stated that I don't know their parents. If I could ask them I would.

Holly - I understood that you do not know the parents of these deaf adults parents.
_____

Holly -Your statement is judgmental. You are basing your opinion of "the language that comes natural to their children" from? I would like to read this information. Would you please share it? Thanks.

_____

I am basing it on the fact that children who are born deaf or hoh have trouble developing oral language skills because they cannot hear the correct sounds to make and therefore don't pick up on it as quickly.

Holly - Undoubtedly, there are some deaf, hoh and even some hearing children that struggle with oral language skills. Each child (deaf, hoh or hearing) is an individual. Each level of hearing loss, apraxia/dyspraxia, auditory neuropathy/auditory dsynchrony, stuttering, auditory processing difficulties etc. are as unique as the individuals themselves. Oral language acquisition is exhausting work for many individuals; this does not mean that these people would not like to acquire oral language skills. Choosing the communication method(s), should/is a familial decision, a decision that fits their family.

Hearing people often use hand gestures when the talk, doesn't it make sense that if you never heard well enough to reproduce oral sounds without help that you would use the next most available thing...your hands?

I do not disagree that American Sign Langauge is a wonderful communication method. To acquire it, one must be exposed to native and/or fluent users of ASL. I also know that it is important for some families of deaf, hoh, and hearing child to aquire the language of their family. Again to aquire it (them) one must be exposed to native and/or fluent users of said language.

When this is a possibility, I did find an article on this once but I'm unable to find it right now. I will post it as soon as I do.

Thank you Holly - I look forward to reading it.

_____

Holly - Copulating is what humans do,(not just humans of course), and I would wager a guess that most of us humans enjoy the activity

_____

I don't recall ever saying that it isn't something that humans do...and just because its enjoyable doesn't mean that you should do it whenever.
Even if you use protection you still run the risk that you could get pregnant. Its easier on everyone if you simply wait until you can deal with any repercussions. I'm tired of my tax dollars paying for babies that mothers didn't want in the first place.

I will post my source of natural language as soon as I locate it on the web.

Thanks.

 

[Doug5]

My parents and I never learned to sign cuz the professionals said it wasnt necessary. Oral language is not natural for the deaf and hoh. All languages are created with sounds that can be heard by most people. Sounds only audible to animals are not used.

No matter how well the hoh and deaf learn to compensate in the hearing world, they will miss some words and sentences. This puts the deaf and hoh at a disadvantage in the oral world. Missing words and sentences is unacceptable to hearing folk, so why should the deaf and hoh be expected to tolerate it?

I think this is the point of this thread. Do some hearing parents treat their deaf children like second class citizens and dont bother to learn how to intelligently communicate with them. I think it happens all the time, like if the deaf child is the youngest. Maybe they think the deaf child is useless so they dont invest as much effort into him or her.

 

[jillio]

My parents and I never learned to sign cuz the professionals said it wasnt necessary. Oral language is not natural for the deaf and hoh. All languages are created with sounds that can be heard by most people. Sounds only audible to animals are not used.

No matter how well the hoh and deaf learn to compensate in the hearing world, they will miss some words and sentences. This puts the deaf and hoh at a disadvantage in the oral world. Missing words and sentences is unacceptable to hearing folk, so why should the deaf and hoh be expected to tolerate it?

I think this is the point of this thread. Do some hearing parents treat their deaf children like second class citizens and dont bother to learn how to intelligently communicate with them. I think it happens all the time, like if the deaf child is the youngest. Maybe they think the deaf child is useless so they dont invest as much effort into him or her.

Excellent points, doug05.

 

[loml]

My parents and I never learned to sign cuz the professionals said it wasnt necessary. Oral language is not natural for the deaf and hoh. All languages are created with sounds that can be heard by most people. Sounds only audible to animals are not used.

Doug5 - You parents followed the direction of the professionals, this does not mean that your parents could "not be bothered".

No matter how well the hoh and deaf learn to compensate in the hearing world, they will miss some words and sentences. This puts the deaf and hoh at a disadvantage in the oral world. Missing words and sentences is unacceptable to hearing folk, so why should the deaf and hoh be expected to tolerate it?

Doug5 - I agree with you that it is difficult to follow oral, (I prefer to use the term spoken and will be using this term in this discussion) language, especially if you have not been provided the tools to acquire the spoken language successfully. Is this what you are suggesting then? Rather than have the skill of spoken language, you would suggest the use of a foreign language, not learn the language of your family and not be able to engage in the spoken word. Please correct me if I have got this wrong. Thanks.

I think this is the point of this thread. Do some hearing parents treat their deaf children like second class citizens and dont bother to learn how to intelligently communicate with them. I think it happens all the time, like if the deaf child is the youngest. Maybe they think the deaf child is useless so they dont invest as much effort into him or her.

Doug5 - Unless you are going to engage in open dialouge with parents of deaf/hoh children, who for reasons of their own, choose the path that they did for their deaf/hoh child, you are only making assumptions.

Thanks

 

[jillio]

Thanks

Why would you contradict dou5's experience as a deaf person? He grew up without sign, and therefore is perfectly qualified to make statemnts regarding his perceptions based on his experience. If anyone is making assumptions, it is when a hearing person discounts the experience of a deaf person simply because they see the need for sign.

 

[loml]

Why would you contradict dou5's experience as a deaf person? He grew up without sign, and therefore is perfectly qualified to make statemnts regarding his perceptions based on his experience. If anyone is making assumptions, it is when a hearing person discounts the experience of a deaf person simply because they see the need for sign.

jillio - There are no contradictions in my post, nor have I discounted Doug5's experiences. What is typical here, is the attempt to inflame a discussion by you.