Deaf children and hearing parents...why don't the parents learn sl?

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jillio said:
As your post is off topic and contributes nothing to the discussion regarding the OP, I will politely refrain from continuing the efforts to diffuse the topic. The text you have posted speaks for itself. However, if you would like to start another thread regarding the matter, I will be more than happy to respond.
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jillio - No my post is directly linked to the topic at hand. In fact if you had actually read my entire post you would have seen the answer.
 
loml said:
jillio - No my post is directly linked to the topic at hand. In fact if you had actually read my entire post you would have seen the answer.
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You have already stated that your post was not intended to offwer insight into the original question addressed in the OP. And your insistence on pulling the discussion off topic is evidence of that. Please, loml, stick to the topic at hand. Why don't hearing parents learn sign?
 
jillio said:
Doesn't lend much credibility to your claim of being actively involved in research.
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I will apologize for such a pathetic statement. However, I have edited it and refer you my new updated post. I "oopsed" out of astonishment at your indignation. As I said before, I have accumulated 7 years of post graduate work. Six of which have been actively involved in research, be it bench side, clinical, or literature reviews. I take a great amount of pride in what I have accomplished. I am passionate about this subject as are you. However, I feel your responses to questions often skirt the issue and become belittling towards myself and anyone else who has not distinctively made up their minds in alignment with your position. Only by education, and not through a collective attitude of suppression, can you truly change peoples minds. I seek to educate. I seek to be educated.
 
jillio said:
You have already stated that your post was not intended to offwer insight into the original question addressed in the OP. And your insistence on pulling the discussion off topic is evidence of that. Please, loml, stick to the topic at hand. Why don't hearing parents learn sign?
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No jillio, what I said was this:

originally posted by loml
It wasn't intended to enlighten you as to why jillio.
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jillio - The answer to the OP is in my post.
 
originally posted by jillio
As your post is off topic and contributes nothing to the discussion regarding the OP, I will politely refrain from continuing the efforts to diffuse the topic. The text you have posted speaks for itself. However, if you would like to start another thread regarding the matter, I will be more than happy to respond.
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and your response shel:

originally posted by shel90
THANK U!!!! This is about WHY parents dont learn SL not about other approaches.
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shel90 said:
what? What? :confused:
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shel90 - I did not understand why you responded as you did.
 
loml said:
originally posted by jillio

and your response shel:

originally posted by shel90



shel90 - I did not understand why you responded as you did.
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If u want to talk about CS, pls start a new thread ...we can talk about it in your new thread. This is about parents' refusal to learn sign language.
 
shel90 said:
If u want to talk about CS, pls start a new thread ...we can talk about it in your new thread. This is about parents' refusal to learn sign language.
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shel90- My post does address the OP.
 
I shall address your points one by one.

jillio said:
So you are claiming a Ph.D.? No.

In what field specifically? medicine, biochemistry, history/literature, psychology, embryology, occupational health and safety...
What form of clinical research? prospective
What type of bench side research?ones involving PCR real time and traditional, acrylamide gel electrophoresis, electron microscopy, nuclear magnetic resonance, nicotiana tobaccum, arabidopsis, rats, neurons, cell cultures etc
 Literature reviews on what topic?a lot on the previously mentioned topics but to switch it up I will give the example of Occupational Health and Safety Primary Prevention, as well as Primary Prophylaxis for Spontaneous Bacterial Peritonitis, and Rate vs. Rhythm control in Atrial Fibrillation
With 6 years active experience as a researcher, I would think that you would be more than capable of locating any article you should choose without request for a "link". I ask for this because of broad statements. I shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel whenever I am interested in a topic.
I have never once used a link for any research I have used in my proposals or my reports, but have located such from either previous citation or academic search. As you should be able to. I can to, I just want to see where people get the information they use to make a lot of the broad statements I have seen. And, the researchers with whom I work do the same. That is what seeking to be educated involves.

I'm sorry that you consider my posts to be belittling. If you were truly seeking to be educated, perhaps you would take a different perspective.

Perhaps your concerns would be better addressed via pm. We are discussing the OP of why hearing parents are refusing to learn sign language.
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I unfortunately cannot PM at this time because I haven't reached 100 posts. To return to the topic; as I have said before I don't truly believe that parents refuse sign language. And I have posted research which can be implicated in stating that deaf children with hearing parents are statistically less proficient at ASL after a given time than their counterparts with deaf parents. I have also stated that I believe it reasonable to assume, based on the research I posted, this is due to the fact that these new parents, in addition to the stress of coping with a new child, are being forced to learn a new language, and we all know that although not impossible, is difficult as adults.
 
owen06 said:
I shall address your points one by one.



I unfortunately cannot PM at this time because I haven't reached 100 posts. To return to the topic; as I have said before I don't truly believe that parents refuse sign language. And I have posted research which can be implicated in stating that deaf children with hearing parents are statistically less proficient at ASL after a given time than their counterparts with deaf parents. I have also stated that I believe it reasonable to assume, based on the research I posted, this is due to the fact that these new parents, in addition to the stress of coping with a new child, are being forced to learn a new language, and we all know that although not impossible, is difficult as adults.
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I have personally met parents who refuse to learn sign language because they prefer their children to develop oral skills. My mom was one of them.
 
owen06 said:
I shall address your points one by one.



I unfortunately cannot PM at this time because I haven't reached 100 posts. To return to the topic; as I have said before I don't truly believe that parents refuse sign language. And I have posted research which can be implicated in stating that deaf children with hearing parents are statistically less proficient at ASL after a given time than their counterparts with deaf parents. I have also stated that I believe it reasonable to assume, based on the research I posted, this is due to the fact that these new parents, in addition to the stress of coping with a new child, are being forced to learn a new language, and we all know that although not impossible, is difficult as adults.
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Less profcient would mean that they are learning.

And, your post directly contradicts these earlier posts:

Visual Phonics choosen over Cued Speech for speech
Views: 637
Posted By owen06
Perhaps, but there is no research proving that it...

Perhaps, but there is no research proving that it is effective either. Is there research showing that Cued Speech being used as a communication mode is harmful?

And this:


Explaining Cued Speech - from an expert.
Views: 2,560
Posted By owen06
I'm a psychology student and am interested in...

I'm a psychology student and am interested in different modes of language aquisition.
Perhaps, but there is no research proving that it is effective either. Is there research showing that Cued Speech being used as a communication mode is harmful?

Seven years post graduate work, and no Ph.D.? Are you at least a candidate?

Your research crosses many domains. This is an extremely rare occurrance for a professional researcher.

And difficulty for the parents is not the issue. Benefit tothe child is the issue. This is where your slant toward the hearing parent again becomes evident.
 
wow...this has gotten WAY off topic...
Perhaps everyone should read the title of the thread again...
 
Holly said:
wow...this has gotten WAY off topic...
Perhaps everyone should read the title of the thread again...
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LOL! We are all guilty for it...my apologies!
 
Holly said:
wow...this has gotten WAY off topic...
Perhaps everyone should read the title of the thread again...
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Thank you, Holly. I have made several attempts to bring it back on topic, but seem to be being ignored. I will stop replying to those posts that do not address the OP. Apologies for my contribution to the off topic.
 
Holly said:
I'm a hearing person but I've known and heard of so many people who were deaf, as in completely or almost completely non hearing, whose parents never bothered to learn sign language. I guess I understand if the child is hoh to a certain extent they can understand oral language well, but when the child has no hearing at all, I don't think its fair to force them to read lips! Especially when the child attends a deaf school and is very obviously learning and speaking ASL or some other form.
To me thats like having a child that can only speak french, and will never be able to learn another language well enough to effectively communicate without frustration. If I had a child like that...I'd suck it up and learn french! I don't understand how you can basically tell your child you don't want to communicate with them!
Of course I understand that just because you are completely deaf does not mean you can't speak or read lips well, I can only imagine of course but I think we all understand that reading lips gets hard, especially in a group setting when you have to figure out who is talking!
I guess all I'm saying is that if I ever have a deaf child I'll make every effort possible to communicate effectively, whatever way is best for them.
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There are a lot of factors that may be reasons why parents do not learn sign language. 1). They've been told that using sign language will hinder the child from learning oral language (manyof us in the teaching field do not agree with this) 2). They lack the resources of learning (no money for formal classes or babysitters used in order to go to classes, no internet to learn from websites, do not have English as native language so difficult to find books in their native languages, etc.) 3) Using sign language may mean they have to address and accept the fact the child is deaf - many parents go through years of denial 4) stigma of using sign language means (to them) that the child is not "normal" 5) Fear that the child will pick up signing faster than them (most children will) and they (parents) will not be able to catch up/ fear of being left out 6) Learning how to sign is difficult, especially because it is visual ; many parents say it is too hard to remember everything they've learned because they don't use it with other adults, just with their child. 7) They do not know other d/Deaf adults or do not interact with the deaf community

* My father never learned sign language - I think it embarrassed him. Even to his day he is in denial that I'm Deaf. Ironically he is fluent in 4 other languages (other than English). My mother started to but stopped when a professional told her that she was doing harm to my language and speech development. My mother now regrets it.
 
Also I think hearing parents like my parents thought that they are too old to learn sign language. Mom kept telling me that she is too old to learn sign language and that she was glad that I can speak to her. I was pretty upset that she did not try to go halfway to learn sign language with me. I can use both speech and sign with her if she would be willing to learn sign language with me. My dad was very busy so I was not in his life very much, only my mom. :dunno:
 
owen06 said:
I think it important to define our words and clarify our statements. I wish to provide another clear example of how correlative research proves causality.

"According to the Pastafarian belief system, pirates are "absolute divine beings" and the original Pastafarians.[3] Their image as "thieves and outcasts" is misinformation spread by Christian theologians in the Middle Ages and Hare Krishnas. Pastafarianism says that they were in fact "peace-loving explorers and spreaders of good will" who distributed candy to small children, and adds that modern pirates are in no way similar to "the fun-loving buccaneers from history." Pastafarians celebrate International Talk Like a Pirate Day on September 19.

The inclusion of pirates in Pastafarianism was part of Henderson's original letter to the Kansas School Board. It illustrated that Correlation does not imply causation. Henderson put forth the argument that "global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters are a direct effect of the shrinking numbers of pirates since the 1800s."[3] A chart accompanying the letter shows that as the number of pirates decreased, global temperatures increased; the absurdity of this demonstrates how statistically significant correlations do not imply a causal relationship"

Source: Flying Spaghetti Monster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To get a clearer view of how this can be graphically represented please see the following:

Image:FSM Pirates.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wish to be adamant about this. I am desiring to make a point and am using humour to help accomplish it in a less depreciating manner. I am not setting about to prove you wrong Flip. Seriously. Just please, please, please, let us all be aware that we need to think about what we read and not accept it as generalizable or draw conclusions about causality that aren't there. Finally, I am starting to get sick of the attitude that it is ok to post broad, generalizable statements, and claim there is research to back them up without actually giving the research. I AM an academic. I WANT to learn. And I have never, not once in my 7 years of post-secondary schooling ran into someone else who is an academic who is not eager to share the research that lends credibility to their arguments. Only through that process can you truly hope to change someones position.
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That one was funny! I like those stories and they are good to help people understand how research and findings can be interpreted. Another one I like, is about the stork coming with babies. Somewhere in europe, the numbers of stork increased at the same time it was a baby boom in the population.

Regarding the point of providing you with information, let's keep that one in the thread where it belongs. I have nothing more to add as we are going in circles in that thread, and I am not going to do in this one, too.
 
owen06 said:
I shall address your points one by one.



I unfortunately cannot PM at this time because I haven't reached 100 posts. To return to the topic; as I have said before I don't truly believe that parents refuse sign language. And I have posted research which can be implicated in stating that deaf children with hearing parents are statistically less proficient at ASL after a given time than their counterparts with deaf parents. I have also stated that I believe it reasonable to assume, based on the research I posted, this is due to the fact that these new parents, in addition to the stress of coping with a new child, are being forced to learn a new language, and we all know that although not impossible, is difficult as adults.
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First you tell us you belive it's hard to learn a language because you have assumed that from seom reasearch you have read, then you say "we all know" it's difficult as adult.

What you are saying here, is that you have read research where literacy rates was lower among children with ASL, without measuring the ASL skills the parents had, and then make a "we all know" about the difficulty with ASL that no parents have stated.

That's a very questionable way to try to validate your belifs, making it look you are backing up your belifs with research. I would expect much more accurate reference and use of research from a Ph.D.

And ASL is SO easy and rewarding. It's a natural language that lies within us, according to neurscientist. All you need is an open mind and enjoy it.
 
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