Deaf and English Literacy

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posts from hell said:
You're confused because you're trying to find something that is not there. Berry is not blaming anyone of anything.
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He stated: "Which brings out a serious deficit in hearing education.

Is there not an implication of fault in that statement?

If he is just stating a fact: OK, I get it.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Are you saying that both mainstream and deaf education is biased?

Yet, you are also saying that deaf people can learn to read just as well if given the chance to develop that ability?

And, you're saying that hearing people need to have greater detail to comprehend anything that is written? Are you talking about written finger spelling?


Is the fingers spelling example any different than a hearing guy who can talk but can't write or read?

I'm confused at who you are blaming here.

Yes, either side has it's disadvantages. How would you solve it while preserving the ability for both deaf and hearing to communicate? Let me guess, signed English?
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Umm.. I think it is a matter of practice, really. Apart from accessibility.

If , for example the access to a written/spoken English and ASL
was the absolute, perfect 50/50
not just approximate 50/50

then that person should be as fluid in both, I think.

Fuzzy
 
posts from hell said:
Oh, and that accurately represents the real world? Why do you think they don't like the deafies here?
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Ok, you are right- maybe in the heat of the moment I chose the wrong word,
maybe "hate" is way too strong.
but certainly posts like that:

http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-ou...hearing-people-think-they-better-than-us.html

make me think there is a canyon of misconceptions
and misunderstanding between both worlds

so for sure jumping each other throats right from the start won't help
that's why it irks me so,
you see.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Ok, you are right- maybe in the heat of the moment I chose the wrong word,
maybe "hate" is way too strong.
but certainly posts like that:

http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-ou...hearing-people-think-they-better-than-us.html

make me think there is a canyon of misconceptions
and misunderstanding between both worlds

so for sure jumping each other throats right from the start won't help
that's why it irks me so,
you see.

Fuzzy
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Posts like what? You linked me to a thread. Not sure what you're referring to specifically.
 
mactoph said:
I didn't explain very well why we produce our magazine in ASL- it is not because we feel that Deaf people can't read English, it is because many Deaf people prefer ASL and there are some Deaf people who don't understand English as well as ASL because it is a second language. Is that Audism?



First, again- that wasn't some assumption that I had from my own biases. It is information I received from the Deaf community and the Gallaudet Research Institute. I'll admit I don't know a lot about Deaf culture, but I'm pretty sure Gallaudet is not an audist organization :P

I fully know that many and perhaps most Deaf people are very English literate, likely more so than I. But that doesn't mean that the research from Gallaudet is incorrect and that some Deaf people may have lower literacy rate in their 2nd language than they do in their 1st language.
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Okay. Keep arguing that you are not audist in your beliefs instead of taking time to actually look at your belief system and see where it is audist in nature. That is exactly how most people coming from an audist perspective respond.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Shel, you made a valid point, and you are so right.
Now, how can we translate this into producing better magazine for the Deaf in the Mactoph community?






I already TOLD you multiple time, it was MENTIONED limitless times already,
the thread owner clearly explained this in his very second thread:



that this is NOT his personal opinion, but he was told by the VERY DEAF members about the illiteracy and more over,
it was the very Deaf members who asked him to simplify the English in the magazine:



Clearly, the initiative came from the Deaf themselves.

It is interesting how you continue to be in denial about these glaring facts.

Are you going to accept that at last,

or should I warn Mr Mctoph that this is in fact your favorite behavior -
how you are not interested to be helpful in the least but rather to engage in trashy accusation, bullying and frankly, trolling?



Fuzzy
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I read what the OP said, Fuzzy. I don't need you to attempt to explain his words to me, especially since they were not your words to begin with.

You wouldn't know audism if it smacked you up side the head. You are one of the worst offenders here.

Inform anyone of anything you please. It doesn't take long before people see you for yourself and your credibility flies right out the window.

Here's a tissue. Wipe that brown spot off your nose.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
I indeed wish I could do more- but the truth is I am not culturally Deaf
and I simply don't know much on the matter except about ASL and spoken/written English being two different languages what implication this have.

But is irks me to no end seeing how an innocent person comes in,
asks a question and instead of being helped is berated for simply being clueless and daring to seek help :mad:

More over, every time he patiently apologize and explains - the attacks not only continue but they escalate!

And you wonder why the hearies don't like the deafies! :mad:

And you, Mr Succinct Word and Master od Sarcasm - how about of being
helpful, for once, for real and generously spill but a drop of the vast
of Deaf wisdom you posses with this person who seeks merely enlightenment ?


Fuzzy
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Then why are you even attempting to discuss the topic?
 
posts from hell said:
There you go again with the moderating. I already have contributed my bit. Post #84 for your reference.

Also how do you reach to the idea that the hearies don't like the deafies?
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Maybe because hearies don't like her? Thank goodness, she is not representative of "deafies", though.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Are you saying that both mainstream and deaf education is biased?

Yet, you are also saying that deaf people can learn to read just as well if given the chance to develop that ability?

And, you're saying that hearing people need to have greater detail to comprehend anything that is written? Are you talking about written finger spelling?


Is the fingers spelling example any different than a hearing guy who can talk but can't write or read?

I'm confused at who you are blaming here.

Yes, either side has it's disadvantages. How would you solve it while preserving the ability for both deaf and hearing to communicate? Let me guess, signed English?
Click to expand...

You might be interested to know that there is not a part of the brain dedicated to learning to read. Especially not phoneticallly. It is a wonder anyone ever learns to read.

The problem is that teachers (not TODs) are attempting to teach deaf children with a methodology that is only minimally effective with hearing children. It will be even less than minimally effective with deaf students.
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Umm.. I think it is a matter of practice, really. Apart from accessibility.

If , for example the access to a written/spoken English and ASL
was the absolute, perfect 50/50
not just approximate 50/50

then that person should be as fluid in both, I think.

Fuzzy
Click to expand...

Circular reasoning.
 
jillio said:
Maybe because hearies don't like her? Thank goodness, she is not representative of "deafies", though.
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Oh, really? you are forgetting I have only hearing family and friends.

also, control those filthy mouth of your ms Springer show.

Fuzzy
 
Audiofuzzy said:
Oh, really? you are forgetting I have only hearing family and friends.

also, control those filthy mouth of your ms Springer show.

Fuzzy
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And?

Your true colors are showing, Fuzzy. Starting with the name calling already. Keep going. Won't take long to show your true self at this rate. You are really and angry bitter woman. You should probably deal with that.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
If you are suggesting that a person needs to learn one language before another, can you link to some articles that support this?
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I am going to expand on this a minute.

I personally do NOT believe a person needs to learn one language before another. I have seen way to many multilingual children of a very young age. The one who impressed me the most was an 11 year old girl I met in K-Mart. Her father spoke Punjabi, Her mother spoke Spanish, and the girl also spoke perfect English. When I commented on this her mother told me, "Our Chinese housekeeper decided to teach her Mandarin as well."

But -- And to me this is The Key point.

For a hearing person learning another spoken language is just learning another language. (Although most are too lazy to try)

Learning sign language is learning another Mode of communication -- This is slightly more than "just" learning another language.

For a Deaf person learning another sign language is just learning another language.

But -- Now here is the kicker!

Spending boring YEARS learning to make sounds you cannot hear -- Only to discover you have a "Deaf" voice because hearing people use vocal nuances that simply cannot be taught:

Spending boring YEARS learning to lipread and only understanding 90% of what you see -- And that only if the person remembers to face you:

Basically wasting your early life becoming a failed hearing person:

When compared to all the interesting and important things that could have been mastered with the same effort and a lot more enjoyment -- Using sign language instead.
 
jillio said:
You might be interested to know that there is not a part of the brain dedicated to learning to read. Especially not phoneticallly. It is a wonder anyone ever learns to read.

The problem is that teachers (not TODs) are attempting to teach deaf children with a methodology that is only minimally effective with hearing children. It will be even less than minimally effective with deaf students.
Click to expand...

Argh yes. My four most hated words school were: "sound it out Sunny". :rl:
 
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