Deaf and English Literacy

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I am sorry, I really do - I did the quoting my way for so many years,
not only here but on other forums as well that remebering to do it properly
really slips my mind still.

I promise I will work on it :)

Fuzzy

but there is a quote button right there in each post. I cannot imagine doing it hard way which is copy-pasting a post and then scroll to bottom to reply to it.

I see that you've used QUOTE button this time.... awesome, isn't it?
 
mactoph
I haven't read through all the posts, so forgive me if this has already been said.

While it's true that many prelingually deaf read at the 3rd or 4th grade level , people seem to conveniently leave off the second half of those studies, which shows that many hearing people read (in their primary language) at a 5th grade level!

Research shows that the reason that many Hoh and deaf people struggle with written language actually has very little to do with the fact that we are Hoh/d/Deaf and much more to do with the fact that we aren't given constant examples of fluent language during the most critical language acquisition stage ( 0-6years old). The Language one is surrounded by makes little difference, it's that the language is fluently delivered that seems to matter the most.

Therein lies the problem ... See, many hoh/deaf infants and children aren't caught immediately (even with infant screenings), leading to periods of weeks, months or years where the access to language is limited, or missing entirely. Once the infant/child is found to be hoh/deaf - unless the parents are already fluent in Signed Language (ASL/BSL/Auslan etc), or in Cueing the child continues to miss out while the parents start learning. Ideally one would immediately look for peer play groups, individuals looking to be mentors etc where the parents/caregivers/fluent signers (or cuers) and their children are using that language constantly as well as child friendly videos displaying fluent ASL/BSL or cued language models.

The reality is that while hearing aids are helpful for amplifying sound - unless the child has mild loss, they are still missing key speech sounds (critically important when learning a first spoken language). If parents are adamant that they do not want to give their child access to Signed Language, they should at the very least learn and constantly use cued speech to absolutely ensure that they are providing full access to the spoken language they are using with their hoh / deaf child. During the vital language acquisition stage is when children need as much access to fluent language examples as possible. Regardless if a parent hopes that their hoh/deaf child will one day be able to be "oral only", in this pre-lingual and peri-lingual stage of life it is far more important (for that child long term) that they be immersed in a language they can fully access, than it is to attempt to "train the to listen better" and pretend to be "like hearing kids".


It's worth noting that in Deaf families, where the parents are Deaf and are able to provide fluent language models from the day the child is born, and the child is taught to read English from a fluent ASL signer (hoh/deaf or hearing) in a typical "Deaf language modelling" style , that the deaf child typically reads on par, or better than their hearing peers. The reason - they've been properly immersed in a fluent language that they have complete access to constantly from birth.

It's also very important to say that just because an infant/child is immersed in ASL , does not mean they can't ALSO be immersed in English (supported by Cuing). This is the same as any other bilingual family speaking English & French/Spanish/German etc. The critical thing is that each language be grammatically etc correct when it is used.

It's not having a hearing loss that "causes" illiteracy /poor reading skills in hoh/d/Deaf ... It's our limited exposure to proper fluent language models during those critical first years when the brain is learning how to learn and understand language (which is why children who become hoh/deaf after 5-7 typically have the same literacy rates as their hearing peers, even if they aren't allowed access to signed language or cuing).
 
but there is a quote button right there in each post. I cannot imagine doing it hard way which is copy-pasting a post and then scroll to bottom to reply to it.

I see that you've used QUOTE button this time.... awesome, isn't it?

:)

here it is available,
but on the majority of the forums I used to be or still am that option didn't doesn't exist hence a copy-paste method,

and believe me - do it for long enough, and it becomes ingrained in your mind...

btw, sometimes it is actually way easier to copy-paste just a fragment
of a message than to do a whole quote then having to erase a major portions of it.
Particularly if you'd like to address a few points of the message and need to break the whole.

Sometimes you'd like to quote more than one person which pose another
set of plms - for a copy-paste, you just scroll down.

But that's okay :)



Fuzzy
 
mactoph
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While it's true that many prelingually deaf read at the 3rd or 4th grade level , people seem to conveniently leave off the second half of those studies, which shows that many hearing people read (in their primary language) at a 5th grade level! [..............................................
..................................................................................................]
Research shows that the reason that many Hoh and deaf people struggle with written language actually has very little to do with the fact that we are Hoh/d/Deaf and much more to do with the fact that we aren't given constant examples of fluent language during the most critical language acquisition stage ( 0-6years old)
[.....................................................................................................
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Therein lies the problem ...
[....................................................................................................
....................................................................................................]

It's not having a hearing loss that "causes" illiteracy /poor reading skills in hoh/d/Deaf ... It's our limited exposure to proper fluent language models during those critical first years when the brain is learning how to learn and understand language (which is why children who become hoh/deaf after 5-7 typically have the same literacy rates as their hearing peers, even if they aren't allowed access to signed language or cuing).


Wow, this is an awesome post!!
Thank you so much for the great explanation how it happens that certain cases of illiteracy happen.
Now, I wonder what percentage of a Deaf population could really have a problem understanding written English - and is it really as bad as Mctoph was told by the Deaf members in his organization,
or did they exaggerated?

last but not least, is there really a need to lower the English level to a 3-4 grade in the paper, or is it not necessary at all?

Fuzzy
 
I have met Deaf people who have embraced the works of Shakespear through ASL by reading his works only to get called illiterate because they couldnt write in PERFECT English! What the hell?

I remember that my senior AP class at MSSD ate up King Lear and Romeno and Juliet. They were big on being into the theater as well.
 
o_0 at this whole thread. Well, can anyone tell me what name of fiction, perhaps horror fiction book that contains the college-level literacy?
 
Although I can read around 600 words per minute, I force myself to slow down to make sure I really under the subject when it's about something important.

Then we are about the same place. Reading that fast, or faster if you practice skimming, is fine if you are reading a 25 cent western. But after a while you do have to force yourself to slow do and think about what you are reading. No one is taught to do that in school.


What gets me is -- How can Deaf people with a 3rd grade reading level be able to fingerspell to each other so fast I can't even see their fingers move.

How is it that a hearing person with a college level skill can't get any faster at fingerspelling than a Deaf three year old.

Just something to think about.
 
Then we are about the same place. Reading that fast, or faster if you practice skimming, is fine if you are reading a 25 cent western. But after a while you do have to force yourself to slow do and think about what you are reading. No one is taught to do that in school.


What gets me is -- How can Deaf people with a 3rd grade reading level be able to fingerspell to each other so fast I can't even see their fingers move.

How is it that a hearing person with a college level skill can't get any faster at fingerspelling than a Deaf three year old.

Just something to think about.

:lol: Good point.
 
o_0 at this whole thread. Well, can anyone tell me what name of fiction, perhaps horror fiction book that contains the college-level literacy?

Stephen King comes close but he's not quite there. Perhaps Turn of Screw by Henry James would make it?

I don't think The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr.Hyde by Robert Lois Stevenson is even close but it sure is entertaining.

I think Neil Gaiman did a short store regarding Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Jekyll.

Phonics has never been my forte and for many years I didn't get the Hyde-> hide pun.
 
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While it's true that many prelingually deaf read at the 3rd or 4th grade level , people seem to conveniently leave off the second half of those studies, which shows that many hearing people read (in their primary language) at a 5th grade level!

That is a very interesting observation. It shows that not only are the levels not that far off from each other, but that education in reading/writing is abysmal for all students.

Speaking only from my own personal experience as an oral, mainstreamed deafie, I don't think I became fluent in English (reading comprehension and writing) due to being taught to that level in school. I learned it because I read a LOT when growing up. In addition to novels, I'd read science and other complex subjects as well. The only way to get better at reading comprehension is to keep challenging yourself with more complex reading material (with a dictionary by your side).

The 400-page tomes did not intimidate me, and still doesn't. But others (hearies) have said to me, "I could never read that. It's too big!" The size of a book has nothing to do with comprehending it. Like any other book, it is read one page at a time until you reach the end.
 
The underlying reason for many illiterate Deaf adults...

lack of ASL in their language formative years.

If you are suggesting that a person needs to learn one language before another, can you link to some articles that support this?
 
o_0 at this whole thread. Well, can anyone tell me what name of fiction, perhaps horror fiction book that contains the college-level literacy?

Hmm. I would suggest "The Eagle and the Raven," by Pauline Gedge. It's historical fiction about the time of Roman-era, Celtic Britain. Very large book, very thick reading. Frankly, Lord of the Rings was easier for me to read.
 
Then we are about the same place. Reading that fast, or faster if you practice skimming, is fine if you are reading a 25 cent western. But after a while you do have to force yourself to slow do and think about what you are reading. No one is taught to do that in school.


What gets me is -- How can Deaf people with a 3rd grade reading level be able to fingerspell to each other so fast I can't even see their fingers move.

How is it that a hearing person with a college level skill can't get any faster at fingerspelling than a Deaf three year old.

Just something to think about.


This is a good point, but it is misleading. Anyone can learn whether they are deaf or hearing. The fact that a college level person can't get faster is false, he just learns slower than the three year old, there is no inherent cognitive ability.

As far as reading fast goes the issue at a 3rd and 4th grade level is with the words instead of the speed. And, you can't speed read a technical manual because comprehension drops to zero, you must comprehend first.
 
If you are suggesting that a person needs to learn one language before another, can you link to some articles that support this?

It is discussed in Harlan Lane's book. Mastering one language first makes learning a second, third, etc. language much easier.

Kind of akin to trying to teach a Spanish child "one means one" whereas if it is taught as "uno means one", they will understand much faster.
 
That is a very interesting observation. It shows that not only are the levels not that far off from each other, but that education in reading/writing is abysmal for all students.

Speaking only from my own personal experience as an oral, mainstreamed deafie, I don't think I became fluent in English (reading comprehension and writing) due to being taught to that level in school. I learned it because I read a LOT when growing up. In addition to novels, I'd read science and other complex subjects as well. The only way to get better at reading comprehension is to keep challenging yourself with more complex reading material (with a dictionary by your side).

The 400-page tomes did not intimidate me, and still doesn't. But others (hearies) have said to me, "I could never read that. It's too big!" The size of a book has nothing to do with comprehending it. Like any other book, it is read one page at a time until you reach the end.

That's what I did. I read whatever I could get my hands on, and I still do. *shrugs*
 
I attribute my English literacy to the vast amounts of reading I did as a kid. I learned to speed read early on as I didn't attempt to vocalise the words in my head but read words visually recognising their shapes. There are loads of words I don't know how to pronounce but I know what they mean. I've read elsewhere that many people remain slow readers because they continue to vocalise the words inside their heads, sometimes revealed by their lips moving silently.
 
o_0 at this whole thread. Well, can anyone tell me what name of fiction, perhaps horror fiction book that contains the college-level literacy?

Stephen King comes close but he's not quite there. Perhaps Turn of Screw by Henry James would make it?

I don't think The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr.Hyde and Mr Hyde by Robert Lois Stevenson is even close but it sure is entertaining.

I think Neil Gaiman did a short store regarding Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Jekyll.

Phonics has never been my forte and for many years I didn't get the Hyde-> hide pun.


FACT:

No one, when reading for pleasure, reads anywhere near their maximum level. When reading for pleasure people read two to four grades below their capability.

I forget the study but when you stop and think about it this makes sense. When people read for pleasure they want to relax not study.
 
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