Cruel & Unusual Punishment

jillio said:
It is not a guarantee that someone who was molested becomes the molester in adult life. It increases the risk of it happening, but it in no way is a definate.

There are plenty of advocates for kids that are being sexually abused. The problem is not the kids that have reported it and are getting help, it is the ones who never tell anyone. One cannot advocate for a victim until that victim comes forward.
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There is not just an increased risk there is a high risk of it happening especially when they are exposing themselves to child pornography thats just step one.

And I am not talking about an advocate to help the child, I am talking about an advocate that would protect them from it happening in the first place and if we allow predators breaks and to be free thinking oh poor them then we are exposing a potential danger to those children. Why not stop it before it ever happens. If you know they have been molested and they are exposing themselves to a temptation to do it again why give them opportunity to repeat the behavior, if they really wanted help then they would ask to be helped with the porn. Many sociopaths don't start out with the act itself first, it first starts with the temptation and they tell themselves well I am not hurting anyone so what harm is there in that and then the temptation becomes to great and they end up hurting someone by then its too late, but who cares about that as long as we are being humane right?
 
ember said:
There is not just an increased risk there is a high risk of it happening especially when they are exposing themselves to child pornography thats just step one.

And I am not talking about an advocate to help the child, I am talking about an advocate that would protect them from it happening in the first place and if we allow predators breaks and to be free thinking oh poor them then we are exposing a potential danger to those children. Why not stop it before it ever happens. If you know they have been molested and they are exposing themselves to a temptation to do it again why give them opportunity to repeat the behavior, if they really wanted help then they would ask to be helped with the porn. Many sociopaths don't start out with the act itself first, it first starts with the temptation and they tell themselves well I am not hurting anyone so what harm is there in that and then the temptation becomes to great and they end up hurting someone by then its too late, but who cares about that as long as we are being humane right?
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So, you are saying that someone who has been victimized themselves should be punished for suffering negative effects from that victimization?

No, it is an increased risk.

How, exactly, would you propose to prevent it happening? How can you identify a child that is going to be victimized, or a person that will molest well in advance of it happening?

And you are completely incorrect regarding the mind set and thought processes of the sociopath.

There are many areas of this country where sexual relationships with young children and even incest are considered by that pocket of culture to be perfectly normal behavior.

If you are going to be humane, you have to carry it all the way out. Otherwise, it is not being humane. It is having sympathy for one and condemning another. That is known as being judgemental.
 
All I know to say is that my view, which once was set in stone, changed one night.

I now say: get out the firing squad.
 
deafbajagal said:
All I know to say is that my view, which once was set in stone, changed one night.

I now say: get out the firing squad.
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Love you to death, and sorry that you had an experience that affected you so profoundly. But, dear friend, it sounds as if you are looking for revenge, not justice. That is contrary to what our form of justice is.
 
jillio said:
So, you are saying that someone who has been victimized themselves should be punished for suffering negative effects from that victimization?

No, it is an increased risk.

How, exactly, would you propose to prevent it happening? How can you identify a child that is going to be victimized, or a person that will molest well in advance of it happening?

And you are completely incorrect regarding the mind set and thought processes of the sociopath.

There are many areas of this country where sexual relationships with young children and even incest are considered by that pocket of culture to be perfectly normal behavior.

If you are going to be humane, you have to carry it all the way out. Otherwise, it is not being humane. It is having sympathy for one and condemning another. That is known as being judgemental.
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I am not incorrect about the mindset and thought process of a sociopath, I didn't just pull that one out my pocket because it sounded pretty to say, I did the research.

And I don't presume to know the answer of how to prevent it from happening, but I don't believe allowing them special treatment is the answer either.

As far as your last comment I have no clue what you mean by that, who is it exactly that I am and that I am not having sympathy for?
 
ember said:
I am not incorrect about the mindset and thought process of a sociopath, I didn't just pull that one out my pocket because it sounded pretty to say, I did the research.

And I don't presume to know the answer of how to prevent it from happening, but I don't believe allowing them special treatment is the answer either.

As far as your last comment I have no clue what you mean by that, who is it exactly that I am and that I am not having sympathy for?
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The mind set and thought process of a sociopath is dependent upon the life experience of that individual. It is not a cut and dried thing.

No one says they need special treatment. I am saying that they deserve appropriate treatment. And to punish one more harshly because one is mentally ill is punishing the person for being sick and subjected to something beyond his / her control.

You are having sympathy for whom you perceive to be the "victim" without considering or having empathy for the one that was victimized to just as great a degree.
 
Is this supposed to be justice for the children, not for the offender?
 
jillio said:
The mind set and thought process of a sociopath is dependent upon the life experience of that individual. It is not a cut and dried thing.

No one says they need special treatment. I am saying that they deserve appropriate treatment. And to punish one more harshly because one is mentally ill is punishing the person for being sick and subjected to something beyond his / her control.

You are having sympathy for whom you perceive to be the "victim" without considering or having empathy for the one that was victimized to just as great a degree.
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No one said it is cut and dry, but its not necessarily all dependent upon their life experience either, there are sociopaths that have led lives that did not involve abuse.

You are right those who were victimized had opportunity to be seen and treated well before they committed a crime that warranted forced treatment and they knew they were sick but after they commit the crime now they scream woe is me I need help, uh no I have no empathy for that.
 
ember said:
No one said it is cut and dry, but its not necessarily all dependent upon their life experience either, there are sociopaths that have led lives that did not involve abuse.

You are right those who were victimized had opportunity to be seen and treated well before they committed a crime that warranted forced treatment and they knew they were sick but after they commit the crime now they scream woe is me I need help, uh no I have no empathy for that.
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The experts would disagree with you. It takes the wrong environment to manifest sociopathic actions.

Do you like to read? I have a couple of books that you might enjoy that address this topic really well. The Minds of Billy Milligan (his court decision made history) and Executing the Mentally Ill. Not to say that either would change your mind: I'm not trying to do that. But I think both would make you consider some things that you had not considered before. I know they were eye openers for me.
 
ember said:
I am not incorrect about the mindset and thought process of a sociopath, I didn't just pull that one out my pocket because it sounded pretty to say, I did the research.

And I don't presume to know the answer of how to prevent it from happening, but I don't believe allowing them special treatment is the answer either.

As far as your last comment I have no clue what you mean by that, who is it exactly that I am and that I am not having sympathy for?
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May I ask where your research is from?
 
Steinhauer said:
I agree with the judge - there should be harsher sentences on those who produce child pornography as opposed to those who view it.
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And I agee with you BUT in this case the judge wants to give a slap on the wrist to a guy who is re-raping children. Open your eyes. Like drugs, etc., if there is no market for a product, then there will be no manufacturers. There well always be adults raping children but to produce film/videos should be a double felony and those who buy it should also be charged with a felony. I promise you, someone is paying for this shit.
 
I just know that America has the highest incarceration rate in the world. Clearly, we're doing something wrong.
 
I know how about we have every other inmate work minimum wage debtors prison to pay his/her way and his fellow before him/her.

Ya never know if you'll get a free ride or a double wage sentence... fun!!!
 
rolling7 said:
And I agee with you BUT in this case the judge wants to give a slap on the wrist to a guy who is re-raping children. Open your eyes. Like drugs, etc., if there is no market for a product, then there will be no manufacturers. There well always be adults raping children but to produce film/videos should be a double felony and those who buy it should also be charged with a felony. I promise you, someone is paying for this shit.
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So why aren't we, as a society, doing what needs to be done to reduce demand instead of punishing after the fact?
 
KarissaMann05 said:
:bump:

Sorry to bump this thread... but I saw a post from Facebook:

FOXNews.com - Why Conservatives Should Oppose the Death Penalty - Opinion

Thoughts, anybody?
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I never thought I would say this about anything published from a Fox News site, but this article is spot on regarding the reasoning of abolishing the death penalty. If the risk of executing one innocent person exists, it is a risk too great to be taken. Not only does that risk exist, we have murdered innocent people in the name of justice. That is completely unnacceptable.
 
Isn't the death penalty abolished in EU countries?
 
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