Crack the myth: Reverse Audism does NOT exist.

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VacationGuy234 said:
Perhaps I haven't been exposed to as much audism as everyone else has, but I can assure you I've had my share.

The world we live in is not a deaf one and it is not naive to understand it. And, while it can be argued that hearing parents don't understand deaf children it should also be argued that they understand the hearing world. Based on that, they make decisions to best prepare their children for life. I hardly think that is an audist act, audism requires malice. In fact, I think they would be negligent if they didn't take into account what life is like for them.

We do not live in a glass snow globe, far from it.
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Yea but by making us as much as hearing as we can is not going to help us prepare for life.

It sure didnt for me and for several of my friends.
 
Deaf - only condition where doctors and society want you to pretend not to have the condition...
 
DeafCaroline said:
Put a deaf child into a school where he can't hear the teachers nor his peers thus be set up to fail or nearly fail both academically and socially and then say - that's the right thing to do, after all, we don't live in a snow globe. His parents made a well-equipped decision.

C'mon...
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Everyone on this forum is the product of what they go through in life, some good and some bad. You can't build a utopia no matter how much money you have or how many courses you take. You can do everything right and still fail, that's life. It's not audism to make a decision you think is in the best interest of your child, it's audism when you consciously don't.

Nobody's education stops when they walk off the graduation stage, we learn till the day we die.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Everyone on this forum is the product of what they go through in life, some good and some bad. You can't build a utopia no matter how much money you have or how many courses you take. You can do everything right and still fail, that's life. It's not audism to make a decision you think is in the best interest of your child, it's audism when you consciously don't.

Nobody's education stops when they walk off the graduation stage, we learn till the day we die.
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But if the best decision that parents think they've made for their child is based on audist beliefs, then yes, it's audism. Unless you're saying it's in the best interest of the deaf child to be mainstreamed, of which stats have proven is not ideal.

Sweden and Norway have adopted new approaches that work - the medical community and the deaf community work together to make decisions on what's best for the child and they, together, meet with the parents. Governments pay for parents to take sign language, deaf schools have more exacting standards, especially for teachers. Why can't the US and Canada copy their models? That alone would be a huge change.

I do get what you're saying but I disagree. The reason being stats speak for themselves. When a child is set up to fail, how then can he feel he will ever succeed unless he's one of the lucky few who did manage to rise above all resistance and tribulations and become a successful adult.

So, your attitude seems to be that deaf people are just going to have to deal with the fact that they were set up to fail from the first day of kindergarten and well, that's life.

I think they call this sink or swim. Throw the child into the water and see if he can swim. If he can't, well, not anybody's fault but his. His parents did what was in his best interest. Not their fault if he sunk.

I'd rather go for the teaching the child how to swim. Less traumatic and he would never fear the water.
 
DeafCaroline said:
But if the best decision that parents think they've made for their child is based on audist beliefs, then yes, it's audism. Unless you're saying it's in the best interest of the deaf child to be mainstreamed, of which stats have proven is not ideal.

Sweden and Norway have adopted new approaches that work - the medical community and the deaf community work together to make decisions on what's best for the child and they, together, meet with the parents. Governments pay for parents to take sign language, deaf schools have more exacting standards, especially for teachers. Why can't the US and Canada copy their models? That alone would be a huge change.

I do get what you're saying but I disagree. The reason being stats speak for themselves. When a child is set up to fail, how then can he feel he will ever succeed unless he's one of the lucky few who did manage to rise above all resistance and tribulations and become a successful adult.

So, your attitude seems to be that deaf people are just going to have to deal with the fact that they were set up to fail from the first day of kindergarten and well, that's life.

I think they call this sink or swim. Throw the child into the water and see if he can swim. If he can't, well, not anybody's fault but his. His parents did what was in his best interest. Not their fault if he sunk.

I'd rather go for the teaching the child how to swim. Less traumatic and he would never fear the water.
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My point is, I don't believe they are setup to fail intentionally. I do believe they are going to have to deal with the fact that they are deaf just like you and me. And, it doesn't matter how much preparation you have for it you still have to go through it.

I'm for children having both mainstream and not.

I understand your point, it is not lost on me. I just disagree that it's audism.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
My point is, I don't believe they are setup to fail intentionally. I do believe they are going to have to deal with the fact that they are deaf just like you and me. And, it doesn't matter how much preparation you have for it you still have to go through it.

I'm for children having both mainstream and not.

I understand your point, it is not lost on me. I just disagree that it's audism.
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then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
My point is, I don't believe they are setup to fail intentionally. I do believe they are going to have to deal with the fact that they are deaf just like you and me. And, it doesn't matter how much preparation you have for it you still have to go through it.

I'm for children having both mainstream and not.

I understand your point, it is not lost on me. I just disagree that it's audism.
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Then as a deaf person, I want to wish you luck. You are going to encounter some problems if you can't recognize audism.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Everyone on this forum is the product of what they go through in life, some good and some bad. You can't build a utopia no matter how much money you have or how many courses you take. You can do everything right and still fail, that's life. It's not audism to make a decision you think is in the best interest of your child, it's audism when you consciously don't.

Nobody's education stops when they walk off the graduation stage, we learn till the day we die.
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No one is asking for utopia. They are asking for a level playing field. That is not unreasonable.
 
(The following is a thought between the discussion VacationGuy and DeafCaroline are having)

I feel with the real issue with the deaf child growth through k-12 + college, is only partially about audist/non-audist principles, ideas, directions taken. The real concern is when their employment begins once they are out into the employed world.

Does any deaf person face harsher realities? Yes
Do oral kids face job discrimination? Yes
Do sign kids face job discrimination? Yes, probably moreso likely than the oral kids.

Choosing the lifestyle for them when they are growing up to accomodate in the best samaritan interests, a sign language grants higher social reinforcement hands down compared to oralism, or CI'ed individuals. Studies, reports, even the people here are living proof of it. The hearing assisting devices cannot come close to restoring full hearing (speaking of children with moderate-severe and up).

When we compare both SL users and oralists in terms of obtaining a job, getting promotions, both face great amounts of workforce discrimination. I was fortunate enough to never end up and have to scrap for minimum wage or rely on SSDI, but at the same time I never got into a salary range suited for my skills and talents. I know I'm probably not alone on this here on AD. It probably would not have mattered if my sign is better than it is now, or my speech was with 0% deaf accent. The workforce discrimination would still be there because just simply by being known as deaf. It did not matter where my education came from. See the dead-end? :|

As an ethnic minority and deaf too, I have encountered and seen both forms of discrimination in my experiences, most notably the glass ceiling. Someone who is of caucasian background might be deaf, but on the flip side they might not encounter the promotional discrimination based on ethnic disadvantage.
 
naisho said:
(The following is a thought between the discussion VacationGuy and DeafCaroline are having)

I feel with the real issue with the deaf child growth through k-12 + college, is only partially about audist/non-audist principles, ideas, directions taken. The real concern is when their employment begins once they are out into the employed world.

Does any deaf person face harsher realities? Yes
Do oral kids face job discrimination? Yes
Do sign kids face job discrimination? Yes, probably moreso likely than the oral kids.

Choosing the lifestyle for them when they are growing up to accomodate in the best samaritan interests, a sign language grants higher social reinforcement hands down compared to oralism, or CI'ed individuals. Studies, reports, even the people here are living proof of it. The hearing assisting devices cannot come close to restoring full hearing (speaking of children with moderate-severe and up).

When we compare both SL users and oralists in terms of obtaining a job, getting promotions, both face great amounts of workforce discrimination. I was fortunate enough to never end up and have to scrap for minimum wage or rely on SSDI, but at the same time I never got into a salary range suited for my skills and talents. I know I'm probably not alone on this here on AD. It probably would not have mattered if my sign is better than it is now, or my speech was with 0% deaf accent. The workforce discrimination would still be there because just simply by being known as deaf. It did not matter where my education came from. See the dead-end? :|

As an ethnic minority and deaf too, I have encountered and seen both forms of discrimination in my experiences, most notably the glass ceiling. Someone who is of caucasian background might be deaf, but on the flip side they might not encounter the promotional discrimination based on ethnic disadvantage.
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It is the same audist principle that creates the problems with education that also creates the problems with unemployment.
 
Cliff notes:

Deaf person prejudiced against hearing people: All bark and no bite.

Hearing person prejudiced against deaf people: Lots of barking and a very nasty bite.
 
Daredevel7 said:
Cliff notes:

Deaf person prejudiced against hearing people: All bark and no bite.

Hearing person prejudiced against deaf people: Lots of barking and a very nasty bite.
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I love your nutshell summaries!:laugh2:
 
Daredevel7 said:
Cliff notes:

Deaf person prejudiced against hearing people: All bark and no bite.

Hearing person prejudiced against deaf people: Lots of barking and a very nasty bite.
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My bite has venom.. Atypical?
 
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