Court of public opinion looms large in George Zimmerman murder trial

ambrosia said:
Oh please guys, we can't say TM had an advantage in hand to hand combat just because he's black, that it gave him an "edge".
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I agree. The edge is ==> in shape athlete in training vs Roly Poly athlete wannabe.
 
ambrosia said:
If he hadn't gone for his gun, and defended himself with his his own hands and fists, he still would have walked away, both of them would have. "
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I disagree. In a perfect world things work out well, but not in real life. When you add a gun to any altercation(once that altercation has started) the chance of it ending peacefully drops to zero. So, anyone who has a gun needs to be prepared to use it or face the consequence of having it(it's why gun ownership is a very big responsibility).

Conversly: If you get into a fight with someone and you find out they have a gun, you do not let them up. To do so would be to seriously put your life in danger.

Because there is no way to be sure of the outcome and a person's life depends on it, we have these problems.
 
CrazyPaul said:
He got fired because he was right about them obviously. I bet that the defense lawyers want him to be a witness when they appeal if GZ is found guilty. The state will be in a big trouble. It's possible that GZ will be released.
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I agree. And, I'm sure that person will be suing the state as well.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
I disagree. In a perfect world things work out well, but not in real life. When you add a gun to any altercation(once that altercation has started) the chance of it ending peacefully drops to zero. So, anyone who has a gun needs to be prepared to use it or face the consequence of having it(it's why gun ownership is a very big responsibility).

Conversly: If you get into a fight with someone and you find out they have a gun, you do not let them up. To do so would be to seriously put your life in danger.

Because there is no way to be sure of the outcome and a person's life depends on it, we have these problems.
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Actually you're not really disagreeing with me all. Just because he had the gun didn't mean he had to use it. A few pages back I talked about the responsibility of having a gun.

But you raise an interesting point. Will we ever know exactly what was said between them. I'd bold the part about not letting the person with the gun up but I'm on my phone. Anyway do we know if GZ made him TM fear for his life? Did TN think he was defending his?
 
ambrosia said:
Actually you're not really disagreeing with me all. Just because he had the gun didn't mean he had to use it. A few pages back I talked about the responsibility of having a gun.

But you raise an interesting point. Will we ever know exactly what was said between them. I'd bold the part about not letting the person with the gun up but I'm on my phone. Anyway do we know if GZ made him TM fear for his life? Did TN think he was defending his?
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It's possible they both thought they were defending themselves.
 
ambrosia said:
Actually you're not really disagreeing with me all. Just because he had the gun didn't mean he had to use it. A few pages back I talked about the responsibility of having a gun.

But you raise an interesting point. Will we ever know exactly what was said between them. I'd bold the part about not letting the person with the gun up but I'm on my phone. Anyway do we know if GZ made him TM fear for his life? Did TN think he was defending his?
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As I said in the beginning, it's a case of two people with good intentions in a lethal situation, each took it too far. And, I think both people are going to pay for it(one already), sadly.
 
Jiro said:
it has been shown in news many times that even a mother can lift a car when her child was pinned under a car. adrenaline. the most powerful drug out there.
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Of course, Martin's adrenalin would also be pumping, which, coupled with his stronger body and better leveraged position would still give him the advantage.

that's why Zimmerman is casting a bad light on law-abiding armed citizens.
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Only for those who already have a negative perspective about gun rights.
 
Reba said:
Of course, Martin's adrenalin would also be pumping, which, coupled with his stronger body and better leveraged position would still give him the advantage.

Only for those who already have a negative perspective about gun rights.
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That's not true.

I strongly believe that Zimmerman made bad taste on law-abiding citizens - make gun groups look bad.

CP support gun control law but he supports Zimmerman to be acquit on all charges.
 
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Jury is asking for clarification on Manslaughter instructions. Appears Murder 2 is out and Manslaughter may be hung.
 
The Dersh

Harvard Law professor Alan Dershowitz says the prosecutors in the George Zimmerman murder trial should be charged with "prosecutorial misconduct" for suggesting the defendant planned the fatal shooting of Trayvon Martin.

"That is something no prosecutor should be allowed to get away with … to make up a story from whole cloth," Dershowitz told "The Steve Malzberg Show" on Newsmax TV.

"These prosecutors should be disbarred. They have acted absolutely irresponsibly in an utterly un-American fashion."

Zimmerman, a 29-year-old neighborhood watch volunteer, is charged with gunning down Martin, 17, as the two fought following a confrontation in the gated Sanford, Fla., community where Zimmerman lives — an act the defendant said was in self-defense.

In the prosecution's final argument on Friday, lawyer John Guy said Zimmerman deliberately followed Martin and "shot him because he wanted to."

Dershowitz called Guy's statement "such speculation. How does he get into the mind of Zimmerman? He hasn't cross-examined him, he hasn't met him.

"To ask the jury to believe that is to ask the jury to convict based on complete and utter speculation and that's not the way the law operates."

A day earlier, prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said Zimmerman — whom he labeled a "wannabe cop" — "followed" and "tracked" Martin after profiling him as a criminal.

Dershowitz said not only should Zimmerman have not been charged with second-degree murder, but prosecutors should not have pushed to have manslaughter and child abuse added to the list of possible jury verdicts.

"[It's] utterly irresponsible. … The idea that the prosecution can try the case on a murder theory and then, at the last minute, substitute manslaughter, even though it seems to be permitted generally under Florida law — it's a big mistake to allow it in a case like this,” he said.

"And then the very idea of even suggesting child abuse in a case like this is so irresponsible."

Dershowitz praised the closing argument of defense lawyer Mark O'Mara.

"He did the right thing by being methodical and factual because this is a case where the prosecution's case is all emotion and the defense case is all factual," the famed civil-rights lawyer said.

"Emotionally, obviously everybody can identify with a young, unarmed 17-year-old who ends up dead, and emotionally, as President [Barack] Obama said, he's all of our children."

Dershowitz — whose clients have included Claus von Bulow, Mike Tyson, Patricia Hearst, and former televangelist Jim Bakker — said the case has "reasonable doubt" written all over it.

"Nobody knows who started the initial physical encounter, who threw the first blow — and if you don't know that you have to have a reasonable doubt," he said.

"Nobody knows for sure who screamed, 'Help me, help me.' You have to have a reasonable doubt about that. Nobody knows for sure who was on top and who was on bottom, though the overwhelming forensic evidence suggests that Zimmerman was on the bottom having his head banged by a younger, stronger man. You have to have reasonable doubt there."


Dershowitz: Zimmerman Prosecutors 'Should Be Disbarred'
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I don't think deliberation will be finished for few days, or worse, week.
 
:giggle: After hearing what the Dersh had to say, maybe GZ should have been charged with culpable negligence......
 
Foxrac said:
I don't think deliberation will be finished for few days, or worse, week.
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Worse is good, in my opinion. Debating the fate of a man's life is serious business.

And, I might add, one that a deaf person rarely get to chance to participate(not that there is any joy in it).
 
I'm hoping for a not guilty announcement...then again the riots..... I don't look forward to any riots...Sanford is about 125 miles from my home town, so since the jury is now in deliberation, I'm doing my needed shopping early so that I at least will be at home when the verdict is announced....
 
Jiro said:
it has been shown in news many times that even a mother can lift a car when her child was pinned under a car. adrenaline. the most powerful drug out there.


that's why Zimmerman is casting a bad light on law-abiding armed citizens.
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I was able to run off 3 men that where taller and stronger than me when they tried to go into my baby bedroom . I did have a kitchen knife but it could had been taken away from me very easily. My adrenaline was pumping like crazy and I would had to tried to fight those guy.
 
rockin'robin said:
I'm hoping for a not guilty announcement...then again the riots..... I don't look forward to any riots...Sanford is about 125 miles from my home town, so since the jury is now in deliberation, I'm doing my needed shopping early so that I at least will be at home when the verdict is announced....
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I am hoping for a guilty verdict !
 
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