Cop "Not Sorry"

[Reba]

911 Call on Gates Never Mentioned Race
The woman who called police about a break-in at Harvard professor Henry Gates' home never said anything about race, according to her attorney and the Cambridge, Mass., police commissioner.

Monday, July 27, 2009

BOSTON -- The 911 caller who reported a possible break-in at the home of black Harvard scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. did not mention race in the call, according to a statement issued by her attorney and backed up by Cambridge Police Commissioner Robert Haas.

Lucia Whalen placed the 911 call July 16, saying she saw two men on Gates' front porch who appeared to be trying to force open the front door. The call led to the arrest of Gates by Cambridge police on a disorderly conduct charge, and a resulting national debate about racial profiling.

In the statement issued Sunday by attorney Wendy Murphy, Whalen -- who has not spoken publicly -- said she only saw the backs of the two men and did not know their race when she made the call. Murphy said Whalen, who works nearby, called because she had been aware of recent break-ins in the area and wanted to correct "misinformation" suggesting that she placed the call because the men on the porch were black.

"Contrary to published reports that a 'white woman' called 911 and reported seeing 'two black men' trying to gain entry into Mr. Gates home, the woman, who has olive colored skin and is of Portuguese descent, told the 911 operator that she observed 'two men' at the home," Murphy's statement read.

Haas said Whalen, after questioning by the dispatcher during the 911 call, speculated that one of the men -- who turned out to be Gates and a black car service driver -- may have been Hispanic.

"It was very clear that she wasn't sure what the men's race was," Haas said in an interview with The Boston Globe Sunday night.

The 911 tapes have not yet been made public, but Haas has said he expected some version of the tapes to be released within the next few days.

The commissioner acknowledged that in the police report the caller is said to have observed "what appeared to be two black males" on the porch, but he said the report was a summary and not necessarily based on the initial call....

911 Call on Gates Never Mentioned Race - Political News - FOXNews.com

 

[Liebling:-)))]

all your questions have already been answered from the articles but I will point it out for you -

Therefore, the most articles was posted here is about Crowley´s side. You know there´re 2 sides to every story. I found the link of Gate´s side of the story.

Professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. speaks out on racial profiling after his arrest by Cambridge police.

correction - Crowley did not overreact.

Yes, he was.

Simple fact is: Crowley was the one who choose to waste his time for treated Gates as an intruder/suspect in first place. Yes what he did was overreaction. I think that Crowley was the one most responsible for this incident getting out of hand.

Crowley did not ignore Gates' demand for name and badge.

Accord plenty of articles and Gates´s word, Crowley ignored Gates´s demand for name and badge number a few times and went outside, let Gates to follow him and then arrest him.

tsk tsk tsk. My first reaction is not blaming the cop or Gates. My first reaction which is what you should have done is to read the facts first before blaming someone.

Check my response post toward Royale and my last post and check the link of Gate´s side.

I have done so and I have commented on it with my post #9.

Obama acknowledged his error.

What card are you playing?

First of all - Gates did not show proper ID at first. It was just a Harvard ID with no address.

That´s what Crowley said but Gates claim differently.

Secondly - Crowley was being a very thorough cop because 911 told him that there were 2 suspicious black men with backpack breaking into the house.

Accord the link, Reba posted that a lady did not mentioned those race to 911 operator. Who claim that a lady said that it´s 2 black men? Crowley or 911 operator?

Imagine if the robbers were hiding in his house and told Gates to make cop go away. or imagine if Gates did not know robbers was in the house but Gates was just being an impatient, racist fool just because he was tired from the trip and he just wants Crowley to go away so he can sleep. Crowley wanted to make sure there's nobody in the house beside Gates but Gates was being rude to him.

Remember the movie called PANIC ROOM with Jodie Foster? It could happen. Gates should be glad to have a very thorough, careful cop responding to the call!


because the priority in here was to control the situation. Control the situation first and discuss later since Gates was being hostile and argumentative. Gates' request is not a priority. Both Gates' safety and Crowley's safety are the priority. Gates was being argumentative and hostile. Crowley must control the situation. Crowley repeatedly tried to calm him down but Gates continued to be argumentative, hostile, and racist toward officer. Result? Crowley arrested him.

Read Gates´ side of the story in that link.

Crowley did not asked Gates “Are you okay?” but ordered him to get out of his home.

And yes talking back to officer is an arrestable offense. It's called Disorderly Conduct.

What Gates did is not disorderly conduct but political speech accord First Amendment (Read the link, you posted).

A Henry Louis Gates Jr. Explainer roundup. - By Brian Palmer - Slate Magazine

What Gates did is not violate the law but Crowley.

Gates was arrested because the police officer don’t like Gates’ opinion. Gates had EVERY right to say something what he thought when he felt being treat unfair by Crowley. Accord First Amendment, you can´t arrest someone for voice their opinion on you.

you just answered your own question. The officer was doing his job and he was VERY THOROUGH at it.

Actually but it´s unfair to treat Gates as an intruder. Crowley´s behavior toward Gates was very offend. I would get offend if the police officer treat me as an intruder/suspect and would say something back to police officer in respectful way but not what Gates said to accuse the police officer as a racist or discrimination.

You know what a bad cop would do? He would arrive at Gates' house and ask Gates if everything's ok because Gates was most likely a well-dressed person so obviously he can't be a robber. Gates would say - yes I'm fine. The cop would just shrugged and leave without verifying his ID and everything. Now that's a bad cop.

Your description what you consider as a bad cop but to me, no but respectfully police officer which mean that he use his good common sense to know that the home, Gates lived is his ....

and no matter what - DO NOT ARGUE WITH THE COP. PERIOD.

But it’s perfectly legal for him to voice toward police officer toward unfair treatment. It’s freedom of speech = opinion and political speech. Police Officers have no right to arrest people who express their opinion in manner way as long as there’re no form of threats or assault.

Gates was in HIS home and was being ordered to step out of his home. He has the right to say NO. He knows how to legal toward police officer.

Gates is not obligate to answer police’s questions in his home.

The police should use common sense when dealing with citizens. Read Gates´s side of the story

same answer as above. After all - the police in here is not Getapso. It is up to officer's discretion to drop the charge at later date. It is not uncommon.

No, it explains why the charge was dropped because the prosecutors says so.

Disorderly conduct charges dropped against Henry Louis Gates, black scholar at Harvard University - MassLive.com

Inside THIRTEEN Archive Henry Louis Gates Jr. jailed for disorderly conduct in Cambridge, MA


Again A Henry Louis Gates Jr. Explainer roundup. - By Brian Palmer - Slate Magazine

You can be charged with a speeding ticket and later have it dropped by officer. Happens all the time in here.

No, Gates was not in a public place but at his home which is not same as ticket/arrest the driver for violate the vehicle law.

Anyway, it´s fair to say that both parties were wrong like what I said at my first post that Gates was wrong to accuse the police officer as a racist and the police officer was wrong to suspect Gates as an intruder, went in Gates´ home without Gates´ permission and ignored Gates´ demand for his name and badge number.

 

[kokonut]

the blacks were even racist to their own kinds as well - the light black and dark black. The blacks enslaved their own and others as well.

Indeed. Some blacks owned slaves back pre-civil war.
Black Slave Owners Civil War Article by Robert M Grooms

Obama is descended from people who owned and/or sold black African slaves. How ironic that Obama received almost universal support from blacks who are here because their ancestors were grabbed up and sold into slavery by other black Africans, including Obama’s father’s tribe.

http://www.aconservativelesbian.com/2009/07/13/obamas-kenyan-ancestors-sold-slaves/

Blacks in other countries owned blacks and other people as well. Slavery was used as an economic tool in many countries.
Middle East Information - MEIC Issues and analysis of the Middle East: Conflicts, News, History, Religions and Discussions

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1403945519?ie=UTF8&tag=leonmonablog-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1403945519]Amazon.com: Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast and Italy, 1500-1800 (Early Modern History) (9781403945518): Robert C. Davis: Books[/ame]

 

[Jiro]

Liebling - you are continuing to confuse yourself. Please stick with one thing - are you blaming Crowley, Gates, or both?

My post is clearly targeted to Gates as he clearly overreacted. Your post #62 is obviously and clearly targeted toward to Crowley but your post strangely ended with blaming both parties. That implies you are either confused or conveniently ignoring Gates' childish action that led to his arrest. we all are quite aware of your infamous agenda toward the cops.

Also - your post makes absolutely NO sense about police's conduct. Perhaps you should have a day trip with police officer to see what his daily activity is like. Perhaps you will understand why the cop has to balance his attitude between "niceness" and seriousness because it's actually the matter of life and death. We all have seen what happened when the cops acted too nice and they usually get killed in the end. If you want the cop to acts too nice, then ask people to act very nice and cooperative too. It goes both way.

btw Liebling - most articles posted in here are from major news source. Please try again and find me articles from major news source that support Gates.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling - you are continuing to confuse yourself. Please stick with one thing - are you blaming Crowley, Gates, or both?

Re-read my view on Obama, Crowley and Gates, explain why they all were wrong.

My post is clearly targeted to Gates as he clearly overreacted.

This is your opinion.

My opinion is Gates and Crowley both were overreacted and should apologize each other and move on.

Your post #62 is obviously and clearly targeted toward to Crowley but your post strangely ended with blaming both parties. That implies you are either confused or conveniently ignoring Gates' childish action that led to his arrest. we all are quite aware of your infamous agenda toward the cops.

That´s because Crowley said so accord most of articles posted here is about Crowley´s side until I posted Gates´ side of the story a few minutes ago then we have both side of the story. It´s not my responsible that you choose to listen Crowley´s side over Gates´s side. I choose to listen both sides and express my view on both sides and already said that they both were wrong.

I never said that Gates was right and Crowley was wrong but pointed out why Gates and Crowley were wrong and what/how they both behaved, law, etc..

You read Crowley´s side of the story about Gates. We only know the fact is arrest Gates at his home for "talk back" to Police Officer was wrong. Now we have Gates´s side of the story a few minutes ago.

Also - your post makes absolutely NO sense about police's conduct.

Did you read the link, I posted over Mass.´s law? If you said that I make no sense which mean that First Amendence make no sense to you because I posted the link of the law accord First Amendance, says that Gates did not violated the law. .

Perhaps you should have a day trip with police officer to see what his daily activity is like. Perhaps you will understand why the cop has to balance his attitude between "niceness" and seriousness because it's actually the matter of life and death. We all have seen what happened when the cops acted too nice and they usually get killed in the end. If you want the cop to acts too nice, then ask people to act very nice and cooperative too. It goes both way.

Excuse me, I know most US police officers´ reputation that´s why I need both sides to make sure instead of listen Crowley´s side.

No matter what, but Gates did not violate the law accord the links, I posted. I assume that you did not read all the links, I posted.

btw Liebling - most articles posted in here are from major news source. Please try again and find me articles from major news source that support Gates.

I have. It prove itself that you did not read all the links, I posted. Its about the law over disorderly conduct, obliate to give the citizens their name and badge number if the citizens requires.

 

[Babyblue]

Yes, Gates was wrong to accuse the Police Office as racist but Police Officer was also wrong to ignore Gates´s demand for Police Officer´s name and badge number, went into Gates´s house without Gates´ permission, too. I think Gates and Crowley both should apologize each other for their overreacting behavior and move on.

To my view on Obama, Crowley and Gates.

I´m not saying that Obama is right but I know where he comes from when he said the police acted stupidly. Obama gave his view because he was ASKED for his reaction. I agree that Obama should say something differently than use those word.

Unfortunlately yes, it would be my first reaction is to blame the police officer for the whole situation because it was stupid to arrest a man in his home after show his ID to the officer. Gates was arrested in his own home for “talking back” to the police officer which is not a crime. Like what Obama said that we don´t know the fact but we only know the facts is:

1. The police Officer went into the house without Gates´s permisson.
2. Gates was arrested after showed his both IDs.
3. Gates proved this is his home, the police officer should have left.

Why can´t the police Officer gave Gates when he asked for their names and badge number?

What the officer did is inappropriate for went in without Gates´permission.
Sure, Gates should have say something in polite way but we don´t know what and how make Gates angry and offend like that. Was the officer treat Gates disrespectfully? OR Was Gates tired from oversea trip? No matter what but the officer has no reason to arrest him because Gates did not break the law for repeated to demand police officer´s name and badge number.

Yes, I can understand that the police officer doing their job to make sure. However, Gates did identify himself as the owner of the house & the police should be relieved and explained why they are at him and good to know that everything is fine, and wish Gates a good day and leave. Is it not hard?

If the police officers believe they did nothing wrong but why the charges dropped?

Anyway, it´s great to know that Obama offer peace talk with Officer and Gates is invite them to have a beer with him in White House.

Officers do not have to have permission, if they are investigating a probable cause. The officer was not searching the home. He was simply asking Gate to prove his residence. Gates was lucky to not get arrested for obstructing an investigation. It is simple.... Gates could have made it easier on everyone if he cooperated. It was not like the cop came and saw Gates at his home and questioned him... The cop was responding to a call. :roll: He was doing his job by investigating it. Gates just simply over reacted.

If you remember by reading some of these articles. Gates home was broken into before this incident.

 

[Reba]

Simple fact is: Crowley was the one who choose to waste his time for treated Gates as an intruder/suspect in first place. Yes what he did was overreaction. I think that Crowley was the one most responsible for this incident getting out of hand.

Fact? Do you know the meaning of the word "fact?"

You call investigating a break-in a waste of time?

Astounding.

Suppose it really had been a home invasion and Dr. Gates was in danger, and the police ignored the call to investigate. Can you imagine the complaints that would stir up? Then some would complain that black people don't get equal protection from crime.

The police can't win no matter what they do.

Accord plenty of articles and Gates´s word, Crowley ignored Gates´s demand for name and badge number a few times and went outside, let Gates to follow him and then arrest him.

Would you expect Gates to admit he was wrong?

Accord the link, Reba posted that a lady did not mentioned those race to 911 operator. Who claim that a lady said that it´s 2 black men? Crowley or 911 operator? [/SIZE]

On the tape, no one claimed it was two black men. The woman said that she thought maybe one man was Hispanic but she couldn't tell. No one on the tape said it was two black men. That means when Crowley showed up at the house he didn't know what to expect.

What Gates did is not disorderly conduct but political speech accord First Amendment (Read the link, you posted).

What Gates did is not violate the law but Crowley.

Gates was arrested because the police officer don’t like Gates’ opinion. Gates had EVERY right to say something what he thought when he felt being treat unfair by Crowley. Accord First Amendment, you can´t arrest someone for voice their opinion on you.

Freedom of speech? Political speech? You have got to be kidding! When a policeman comes to your door to investigate a possible crime, why on earth would you give him a political speech? Why not just answer his questions? The cop is there to help the resident, not get into a political debate. That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.

Actually but it´s unfair to treat Gates as an intruder. Crowley´s behavior toward Gates was very offend. I would get offend if the police officer treat me as an intruder/suspect and would say something back to police officer in respectful way but not what Gates said to accuse the police officer as a racist or discrimination.

I bet you would get offended. Personally, I would not. I would be happy to know that my neighbors and the police are watching out for me and my property. If the police came to my door and said that someone was observed breaking into my house, I would say, "Thank you for coming--please feel free to search my house." If they asked for my ID I would gladly show it to them without any discussion. If they asked me to wait on the porch while they checked the house, I would be happy to do that. There is no way that I would feel offended.

But it’s perfectly legal for him to voice toward police officer toward unfair treatment. It’s freedom of speech = opinion and political speech. Police Officers have no right to arrest people who express their opinion in manner way as long as there’re no form of threats or assault.

He can complain all he wants, after he answers the police officer's questions and does what he's supposed to do. If he's just giving his "opinion and political speech" but not cooperating with the police, then he can be arrested for not cooperating and causing a disturbance. He wasn't arrested for his "opinion and political speech."

Gates was in HIS home and was being ordered to step out of his home. He has the right to say NO. He knows how to legal toward police officer.

Gates is not obligate to answer police’s questions in his home.

Are you an American lawyer?

The police can enter a home and question the person in the home if they have probable cause. The police did have probable cause, which was the phone call to 911.

No, it explains why the charge was dropped because the prosecutors says so.

Prosecutors can drop cases for many reasons, including political reasons. Sometimes they drop a case even though the arresting officers were "right" because the case would be difficult to prosecute, or they feel the arrest experience was enough to make the point.

No, Gates was not in a public place but at his home which is not same as ticket/arrest the driver for violate the vehicle law.

Anyway, it´s fair to say that both parties were wrong like what I said at my first post that Gates was wrong to accuse the police officer as a racist and the police officer was wrong to suspect Gates as an intruder, went in Gates´ home without Gates´ permission and ignored Gates´ demand for his name and badge number.

Gates' home was the scene of a possible crime; that's why the police could enter it. Police can arrest people in private places as much as public places.

 

[Reba]

Inside THIRTEEN Archive Henry Louis Gates Jr. jailed for disorderly conduct in Cambridge, MA

That's interesting how Gates' statement conveniently left out the part where he accused the police of racial profiling.

 

[Babyblue]

If some on would of came to my house. and question me... I would be happy to prove my residence.. and applaud the officer for checking on my home.

I had to climb in a window once when I locked myself out.

If a neighbor would have reported me.. I would laughed and give him My ID and prove my residence. Simple as that.

My home has been broken into before. 2 years ago.. devastating...

 

[Jiro]

Plus - Cambridge is not a safe area. I have been there many times to visit Harvard, MIT, and Northeastern Univ (I got accepted there ), and UMASS (accepted there too). Robbery, assault, and drug are very common in those area. Kudos to Crowley for being overly cautious and double-checking on everything.

 

[Jiro]

Excuse me, I know most US police officers´ reputation

Really? so please enlighten me - what are most US police officers' reputation in here?

and you are basing that on what? newspapers that reported about 10 bad cops per year?

that´s why I need both sides to make sure instead of listen Crowley´s side.

but doesn't that contradict to your previous post #41? You said "Unfortunlately yes, it would be my first reaction is to blame the police officer for the whole situation because it was stupid to arrest a man in his home after show his ID to the officer."

I have already listened to both sides from all major news articles hence I came to a conclusion - my post #9.

 

[Cheri]

While I agree with a lot of members on this thread. But, I do think it would been more appropriate if Crowley would had provide his badge number also, because an identify is not always enough. That is just my opinion.

I had someone that came over who claimed to work for the gas company, his van that he was driving didn't say the company's name or was he in his uniform. He looks so suspicious, so I asked him for his official identification badge, he didn't provided it he claimed that he left it in his other work pants, I was in doubts, so I told him to hold right there, I'll be with him shorty, I rushed to the phone to contract my local gas company, and found out that nobody was scheduled to come over my place of home, so I hang up and dial 911, but unfortunately the guy had already left. I believe he knew I was making some calls.

 

[Jiro]

While I agree with a lot of members on this thread. But, I do think it would been more appropriate if Crowley would had provide his badge number also, because an identify is not always enough. That is just my opinion.

asking for badge number is irrelevant if Gates' being arrested. Like I said - Crowley's primary concern was to control the situation because Gates was increasingly hostile. If Gates would just calm down and be civilized, Crowley would offer his badge number as requested. Accusing officer of being racist isn't exactly a great way to talk to officer responding to burglary call.

I had someone that came over who claimed to work for the gas company, his van that he was driving didn't say the company's name or was he in his uniform. He looks so suspicious, so I asked him for his official identification badge, he didn't provided it he claimed that he left it in his other work pants, I was in doubts, so I told him to hold right there, I'll be with him shorty, I rushed to the phone to contract my local gas company, and found out that nobody was scheduled to come over my place of home, so I hang up and dial 911, but unfortunately the guy had already left. I believe he knew I was making some calls.

oh wow! smart move there

 

[Daredevel7]

asking for badge number is irrelevant if Gates' being arrested.

So you're saying that I can assume they are cops if they have handcuffs? They can just come and arrest me?

 

[Jiro]

So you're saying that I can assume they are cops if they have handcuffs? They can just come and arrest me?

let's see... a full uniform plus a police car plus a badge. yep that's a cop for sure. But then.... what if it's a fake cop? Let's see... risk getting charged with resisting arrest and assaulting the cop or not?

that's what you get for living in state that wants to abolish 2nd Amendment.

 

[Daredevel7]

let's see... a full uniform plus a police car plus a badge. yep that's a cop for sure. But then.... what if it's a fake cop? Let's see... risk getting charged with resisting arrest and assaulting the cop or not?

that's what you get for living in state that wants to abolish 2nd Amendment.

Yea sounds as probable as a burglar who held up his ID that happens to have the same address as the house.. Yep yep...

 

[Jiro]

Yea sounds as probable as a guy who held up his ID that happens to have the same address as the house.. Yep yep...

not initially. Crowley went extra measure to make sure there were no robbers hiding in the house.

 

[Daredevel7]

In theory, the man should have been calm and rational. The cop should arrest that man if he indeed was hostile... however I get the feeling that this kinda thing happens more than it should and it really gets on black people's nerves.

 

[Jiro]

In theory, the man should have been calm and rational. The cop should arrest that man if he indeed was hostile... however I get the feeling that this kinda thing happens more than it should and it really gets on black people's nerves.

yes.

 

[darkdog]

Simple fact is: Crowley was the one who choose to waste his time for treated Gates as an intruder/suspect in first place. Yes what he did was overreaction. I think that Crowley was the one most responsible for this incident getting out of hand.

Looks like it's time for a game of "Put Yourself in Their Shoes".

Now, suppose you're a police officer driving around Cambridge, Massachusetts. You get a call about a break-in in progress. You say to your partner "Nah, it's a waste of time."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose you have a good partner who says, "You have to respond or else you'll get fired" and you say "Oh, right. Thank you". You drive to the house. Now remember, the information you have is that there are intruders inside the house. You don't know if they're armed or dangerous. The owners may be in trouble inside. You walk up, see a man inside, say to your partner "Meh, he's probably the owner. Don't want to waste his time" and start to walk away.

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says "We can't assume he's the owner until we verify. There may be people in trouble in there. We don't know the situation yet," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You walk up to the door and ask the man to come speak to you because you're investigating a report of a break-in. He flies into a rage and starts accusing you of racism. You say to your partner, "He's probably the owner. He looks pretty mad. Why else would he say that? We should be respectful and leave."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says, "Well of course an intruder's going to claim to live there. You have to actually verify that he's the owner and nobody's in trouble," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You ask him if anybody else is inside and he yells that it's none of your business while accusing you of being a racist cop. He walks away and you say to your partner "Well, I can't go in there. I don't have a search warrant."

Dereliction of duty- you're fired!

And that is why you are not a cop. But suppose your partner says, "The Supreme Court has said you don't need a search warrant if you're investigating an intrusion," so you say "Oh, right. Thank you." You walk in and, he asks for your name and you give it to him (see the police report: Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Police Report - July 23, 2009) but he keeps yelling over you. You tell him you need to see his ID and he finally shows you his Harvard ID. You say to your partner, "OK, he lives here. I'm going to call in my findings and leave"...

Good work, Officer Liebling.

You try to call in but you can't hear because the guy is yelling so loud, so you head out towards the porch. The guy follows you out. So now you're outside the house with this guy yelling and ranting at you. Neighbors are gathered around and you say to your partner "Oh no, what do I do?" He says, "Well, you could give him a warning and then arrest him for disorderly conduct if he keeps it up." You say "Oh, but that violates his first amendment free speech rights." Your partner says, "Actually it's not. You're not arresting him for what he's saying, but for his behavior. Disorderly conduct is not protected by the Constitution." You say, "You may be right, but I'm just going to let it be"...

OK, that's fine.

But still remember, you are not a cop. If you had years of experience under your belt, you might find it more prudent to arrest him.