Connecticut school massacre

[Foxrac]

I am saying that the Judge who presided over the Terrie case made a very logical statement. If someone decides to break in a house, they should expect to get shot at. They should not be given leniency because they were shot at by the homeowner.

It doesn't make UK gun law unconstitutional and the ruling only apply to couple that you mentioned the name.

Only Supreme Court of the UK could make final decision about laws.

 

[Jiro]

We might also reinstate the federal assault weapons ban that this country had between 1994 and 2004.

It prohibited the manufacturing of certain semi-automatic weapons for civilian use.

it was proven ineffective and extremely costly. to reinstate a costly failed ban would be disastrous for America especially due to lack of fund and resource to enforce a failed law. that's why it was never reinstated since it expired.

why focus on something unpreventable when it's better to focus on preventative measures such as education, awareness programs, and counseling? this method has been proven effective on all cases, all problems, all issues.

for example - school bullying. the knee-jerk reaction was to create a no-tolerance rule by expelling a bully (and victim) after one case. this was proven ineffective.

an effective solution? promoting an awareness and launching a nation-wide anti-bully campaigns with celebrities telling stories about being bullied.

 

[Jiro]

We stand apart in the world in the number of guns we have.

We stand apart amongst the wealthier nations with a phenomenal gun death murder rate.

Switzerland was used as an example: Switzerland citizens have 1/2 the guns as the US. 88/100 citizens to 45/100 citizens.

so your solution is..........?

 

[Foxrac]

Full name lists
Sandy Hook Shooting Victims' Names Released

All children on lists are 6-7 years old.

 

[FadedRose]

I was in the hospital of all places doped up on Dilaudid suffering a severe bout of colitis when I saw this on TV. Now that I am home, the magnitude of just how horrendous this was has fully hit ( not doped up..LOL). Why? Why those little innocent kids?! I feel for the families of the victims. what is this world coming to?

 

[FadedRose]

Full name lists
Sandy Hook Shooting Victims' Names Released

All children on lists are 6-7 years old.

Too young!

 

[ambrosia]

Last night I posted a little rant about this on FB. Between this thread and things I've seen posted and shared there about ways to prevent these things.....I'm starting to wonder about people. I realize that's the knee jerk reaction to something like this, we have to stop these things from happening. I've seen stuff about gun control, about arming the teachers (which is just wacked) and people blaming video games, no not just crazy paul, I've seen it on fb. All over those things are over the top, not feasible, or just as loopy as the people who do these things.

Here's a little perspective. I did a little google search the latest dates I could find were from 2009. The leading cause of death for children is car accidents. 1,314 kids under the age of 14 were killed in car crashes. 179,000 were injured. Know how many kids were killed in mass shootings at a school that year? None. I don't know how many kids were killed this year in car crashes, but we know that 20 were killed this year in a mass shooting at a school, I'm betting more kids died in car accidents. Are those car accident victims less tragic than the shooting? Why? because they didn't happen all at once? I don't see anyone calling for taking all the cars off the road. Tomorrow you all are going to load your kids up in the car and take them somewhere, maybe to school. The chances of them dying on their way to school are astronomically higher than getting killed in a crazy person's rampage.

 

[AdamFencepost]

I didn't grow up in a Mr. Rogers' neighborhood. Mr. Rogers wasn't around on TV when I was growing up (go back far enuf and TV wasn't around part of the growing-up time :roll. Now, Mr. Rogers isn't even around but there are still kids around. It should be pretty obvious about the kids, yes?

There is no easy or no 1 answer. We just need to help them have a safer neighborhood.

There are extreme ideas. Personally, I'm hoping for the intervention of extra-terrestrials :roll:. Don't be holding your breath on that one.

An elementary school is just about 1 1/2 blocks from where I live. I was just out shoveling snow and appreciating that it is a Sunday morning. I don't want to see the kids walking in the street tomorrow so my job is to make sure they don't have to on this side of the road.

My 2 kids are grown. My son may have more grey hair than I do . You know, if they were teachers, I'd find a way to give them 2 hugs, and not just 1, during these next few days. Parents of young children are usually working pretty hard to take care of them. They need a hug, too. They all, kids - teachers - parents, need more than a hug and more than just a guy out there with his snow shovel.

 

[A Nihilist]

^^^ Well said, from reading about the incident I learned that the school did already have some kind of security in place. Check out this link: Slain Connecticut principal remembered as energetic, positive, passionate - CNN.com

particularly this text:

One of them was overseeing the installation of a new security system requiring every visitor to ring the front entrance's doorbell after the doors locked at 9:30 a.m. If they were buzzed into the front office, parents would be asked for photo identification.

So for the security advocates you've got to realize the school wasn't a free-for-all so that anyone could just walk in. I understand the knee-jerk reaction but how do you handle security for a person who has 3 firearms? The only way I can see to improve security is to have an armed guard or two on the door but like ambrosia says, the chances of your kid dying in a car accident are greater than in a school shooting.

With that logic why not make it illegal to even drive kids around or require that they be transported inside a military vehicle? I know it sounds heartless but truly they're not really thinking about the logistics of actually making things safer.

 

[deafdrummer]

I'm skipping right to the point without reading this thread. Someone made a post in support of a person who prevented a massacre from getting out of hand at a mall. I replied:

"That is EXACTLY how it ought to have gone down at the school in CT. The teachers ought to have been armed. Even if two teachers went down, the others and some kids would have been saved. You see, the killer knew that there would be no guns at school, thusly no way to stop him. It would be like a video game with no danger to him unless they could get to him physically (that's easy to avoid - watch your lines of sight and cover them all).

"An armed, but polite society would have discouraged this behavior in the first place. What would the incentive be to only shoot one or two people when he knows everyone is armed? The thrill is in how many people you can take out and the circumstances surrounding each shot. This is the fatal flaw in the gun-free zone laws. There is that one-up, one-down relationship between shooter and victim. "I am armed, and you're not, therefore, I can do whatever I want, including terrorizing you before I decide whether to spare your life." Taking a life has huge consequences for yourself, the person who dies, and all who know the person.

"The fact is, people have to get over themselves in that HUMANS, HUMAAAHHHHHNNNNNs will always have the part of themselves that is caveman/cavewoman. I have it, and it is much more evident than in the average person, and I have to work hard to keep it in line. Just because you were raised a civilized person doesn't "delete" the "bad half" of the human spectrum of emotional processing and manifestations, and "we are all Europeans now." IT IS ALWAYS THERE. Beware and be prepared."

 

[CrazyPaul]

Last night I posted a little rant about this on FB. Between this thread and things I've seen posted and shared there about ways to prevent these things.....I'm starting to wonder about people. I realize that's the knee jerk reaction to something like this, we have to stop these things from happening. I've seen stuff about gun control, about arming the teachers (which is just wacked) and people blaming video games, no not just crazy paul, I've seen it on fb. All over those things are over the top, not feasible, or just as loopy as the people who do these things.

We, the people are entitled to our opinions so what are you talking about? Even politicians, lawyers, parents, counselors, professionals and so on express their opinions as well as millions of YouTubers express them in their comments. Still complaining?

 

[ambrosia]

We, the people are entitled to our opinions so what are you talking about? Even politicians, lawyers, parents, counselors, professionals and so on express their opinions as well as millions of YouTubers express them in their comments. Still complaining?

Never said you aren't entitled to your opinion. Just because I think someone's opinion is ludicrous does not equate to me thinking they aren't entitled to one
opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.....some are just full of more shit than others.

 

[naisho]

With that logic why not make it illegal to even drive kids around or require that they be transported inside a military vehicle? I know it sounds heartless but truly they're not really thinking about the logistics of actually making things safer.

So what are you implying? I get the impression you are trying to be realistic like:
"It sucks, but shit happens, deal with it. People are more likely to die from cancer or drugs anyway."

Should there not be any policy implementations to prevent, or intervention methodology to prevent the possibility of these shootings (school or not) occurring again?

I do not hold a predisposition towards security advocacy nor do I feel "more CCWs or guns" will solve this problem. I feel that this is an issue that can be resolved without turning a blind eye.

 

[ambrosia]

So what are you implying? I get the impression you are trying to be realistic like:
"It sucks, but shit happens, deal with it. People are more likely to die from cancer or drugs anyway."

Should there not be any policy implementations to prevent, or change the possibility of these shootings from occurring again?

I do not hold a predisposition towards security advocacy nor do I feel "more CCWs or guns" will solve this problem. I feel that this is an issue that can be resolved without turning a blind eye.

You make the school as safe as possible, which most have already done. My kids school all the entry/exit doors are locked with keypads on them. The teachers have to punch in a code to open them, people can only get in through the front door. You make it as safe as possible, and then you hope it is enough. Taking guns away from everyone because of random acts of violence that might occur is not a solution. Arming teachers, having children see their teacher every day all day with a rifle slung over their shoulder or something? In a police state? How freaky and paranoid would that be? That's a horrible idea. Allowing guns everywhere? Letting all citizens walk around packing all paranoid and trigger happy? Horrible idea.

You make it as safe as possible and you and and pray. K, cuz this is life, and yes in life shit happens. Sounds trite, but it's true. Just like with your car. you make sure kids are in their booster seat, having their seat belts on, and you hope it's enough.

 

[Lau2046]

A better solution would be to run the schools like a federal building. Allow no public access without appointment. Have guests escorted on the grounds, use metal detectors and have all exits locked down and opened only by codes, including the main door leading to the classrooms.


Laura

 

[naisho]

You make the school as safe as possible, which most have already done. My kids school all the entry/exit doors are locked with keypads on them. The teachers have to punch in a code to open them, people can only get in through the front door. You make it as safe as possible, and then you hope it is enough. Taking guns away from everyone because of random acts of violence that might occur is not a solution. Arming teachers, having children see their teacher every day all day? In a police state? How freaky and paranoid would that be? That's a horrible idea. Allowing guns everywhere? Letting all citizens walk around packing all paranoid and trigger happy? Horrible idea.

You make it as safe as possible and you and and pray. K, cuz this is life, and yes in life shit happens. Sounds trite, but it's true. Just like with your car. you make sure kids are in their booster seat, having their seat belts on, and you hope it's enough.

That's a good suggestion, it will deter some criminals from schools that don't have this already.
However, I still feel people such as Dylan & Klebold, Seung Cho will find ways around CTPED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Designs) like the door locks, or amped school security and whatnot.

There are both irrational and rational perpetrators; CTPED deters rational offenders, but not the irrational ones. You can set a house up for maximum burglary security through technologies but at the end of the day if someone really (eg. often a maniac or passionately driven person) wants to get into a home/school they will do it regardless of all CTPED implementations. They can smash the window, pick the lock, shoot the guard dog, destroy the camera, bypass the fence with a ladder or with Fiskar shears. The illogical ones are driven by some force (I think this is what happened here) and they will do what it takes to reach their goal, because they have no fear or recognition of the repercussions involved in what they are doing.

Criminals will evolve with CTPED and find ways as time progresses. The drawback with CTPED is that it relies solely on temporal variables, they require constant 'upkeep' to follow the pace with changes in society, and this also incurs money and fees as the end result.

My idea of a fix is harder, and it would cost less to implement. Not a gun ban, as people will get a gun if they really want one. We can try to 'reduce' guns as a go-to solution, remove the ideology that guns are cool (to kids) and the status associated with owning one. This can reduce gun ownership all around, and therefore less likely someone will misuse a gun. (8 in 10 chance compared to 1-3 in 10)

I don't think it is an easy task and will take a long time to see changes, which is my argument's downside.

 

[AdamFencepost]

There are a couple of little kids these days staying with, I believe it's the aunt, who lives across the road. She is a very young lady and she has been there a year or two and didn't have kids to look after earlier.

The other day, I noticed them getting into her car. She pulled a child's seat out of the trunk and tossed it onto the back seat. The older girl got in one side and the little boy climbed in after the car seat. They drove off in about 10 or 20 seconds.

You can be sure that the little boy's car seat was just for the police to see that he was "legal" . . . The adult did not fasten that seat in and the little boy is barely big enuf to climb in the car by himself.

Should I have been over there to stop them from driving off? No, that is pretty much the parents' job. I hope that if she happened to be stopped the police officer would check the seat and, HOPE, that she doesn't hit something driving around like that!

What more than hope? I don't know . . . a couple years ago there was a party with young people not far from here. Lots of drinking, I guess. One guy decided he was going to get in his car and leave. His "friend" said that he couldn't drive drunk. Big Problem!

The friend goes in the house and gets a gun. When his drunk buddy tries to get past him to his car, he is shot . . . One shot, he died.

Naturally, I wish that would never have happened. I wish that an issue about "safety" & Do Not Drive Drunk had never come to that! I wish that the gun wouldn't have been so easily at hand. Of course, it ruined 2 lives but sometimes, people make a really stupid mistake.

When the Aurora theater shooting occurred I immediately thought of setting up a movie on a hillside in SE Asia. Every boy or man over the age of 14 has a gun. The movie is outdoors with a sheet on the hillside for a screen. Just a fun movie - - - nobody comes! The community is too fearful of gathering together for fear that they will be targeted, as a group.

Do we want to live in those conditions?

Several thousand miles and a decade or 2 north, the Japanese subway is gassed. 13 people die. These things happen even in a 1st world democracy like Japan. Which community would you be more content to live in and raise children?

 

[ambrosia]

A better solution would be to run the schools like a federal building. Allow no public access without appointment. Have guests escorted on the grounds, use metal detectors and have all exits locked down and opened only by codes, including the main door leading to the classrooms.


Laura

The one big glaring problem with this idea? money, okay there are how many schools in this country that don't even have enough teachers? This would cost too much, and it's not logical really. The last mass shooting at a school was in 2007, 5 years ago!!! There's how many schools in this country? That would be a very expensive solution to something that is statistically unlikely to happen.

 

[A Nihilist]

If you want nearly 100% safety homeschool your children but the problem again is the logistics and money. What about single mothers who have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet, how can they raise their kids in their home? Plus some parents just aren't qualified to teach and have to delegate those to professional teachers.

I'm definitely not all about ignoring problems but at the end of the day I take issue with the irrational people who insist on 100% solutions without thinking about the cost and logistics. Like with that idea of running a school at a federal facility again, where's the money going to come from to pay for the buildings, guards, weapons, etc....?

And as for gassing incident in Japan understand that it's pretty much gun-free country where even the police officers don't use guns. You would think a country with barely any violence and weapons would be perfect, nope!

And if you want to see a country that's extremely pro-gun check out Somalia, they made a movie about it named "Blackhawk down"

 

[saywhatkid]

A better solution would be to run the schools like a federal building. Allow no public access without appointment. Have guests escorted on the grounds, use metal detectors and have all exits locked down and opened only by codes, including the main door leading to the classrooms.

Like the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City? And, with schools screaming for more funding, where do we come up with the money for these devices and escorts?