Comparing CI with HA's

Probaly not the same story. I think the movie was probaly very Hollywoodized.
 
deafdyke said:
Cloggy, here's a link that might be able to help you understand that the hearing that we aided and implanted folks hear, isn't nessarily the same as what a hearing person hears. It's about sight.....a blind guy who had an operation to restore his sight, but it's NOT AT ALL what sighted people think of when they think of seeing. http://www.oliversacks.com/osnew/ows/bookpages/mars/exrptmars.htm
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how many times I suggested that you back off on CI because you do not have CI and you don't know what it is like except asking them what it is like. you only based your perception on what you received from your friends. nothing more.

Now.. So far I have been seeing others CI users saying that THEY HEARD EXACTLY THE WAY THEY HEARD BEFORE. (because they were born hearing then became deaf, that's why they said they got their hearing back) they didn't say they hear the same as OTHER hearing people. no one said that!

I do not have a expectation to hear like the way my brother hear exactly the same. nope. although I did mention in a thread that was locked and removed which you criticized my post regarding my goal to reach the level of "normal" level (between 0-20db) that most hearing people hear at. It does not means I want to hear exactly like them. nope. I wants to hear the whole sounds that hearing people hears. I do not expect to hear the exact same sound that we(me and a hearing person) heard at the same time. Get it?

Now it is time for you to quit being 'know it all" on CI issues. you don't know fully till you get implanted and hear thru it.

I have been wearing HA all my life till I got the CI I can tell that there is a big difference. you don't, because you are still using HA.

Now quit telling us stuffs like we don't know when we do know and actually experienced it.

Please!
 
:werd: *stands up and applauds Boult*:cheers:

DeafDyke -

Yeah, I'm tired of you acting like you know everything just because you went to college and read a crapload of books and stuff.

College education and books do NOT matter.

What matters? ACTUAL EXPERIENCE!

You do not have a CI, you have no personal CI experience, so STFU!
 
Boult,

Good post! :)

<sigh> Unfortunately, those who do not have CIs continue to spread the myth that CI users do not hear the same way as hearing people do.

As a CI user, I can tell you that I hear *exactly* the same sounds as my hearing friends and family do. I can hear whispers, birds singing, the wind, rain, thunder, leaves crunching underneath my feet, so DD why is it that you think I hear differently than hearing people do?

What I hear through my CIs sounds exactly like I remember before losing my hearing. While it is true that voices and sounds were metallic in nature following the early days of my CI activation, that is no longer the case. 100% of what I hear sounds "natural." The only exception to this is music. For whatever reason, some types of music sound off-key (especially if it is unfamiliar to me). However, music I am familiar with sounds exactly like I remember before losing my hearing.

So I *don't* hear any differently than someone with normal hearing. On second thought, I take that back. Sometimes I hear *better* than they do! :)
 
Hear Again said:
Boult,

Good post! :)

<sigh> Unfortunately, those who do not have CIs continue to spread the myth that CI users do not hear the same way as hearing people do.

As a CI user, I can tell you that I hear *exactly* the same sounds as my hearing friends and family do. I can hear whispers, birds singing, the wind, rain, thunder, leaves crunching underneath my feet, so DD why is it that you think I hear differently than hearing people do?

What I hear through my CIs sounds exactly like I remember before losing my hearing. While it is true that voices and sounds were metallic in nature following the early days of my CI activation, that is no longer the case. 100% of what I hear sounds "natural." The only exception to this is music. For whatever reason, some types of music sound off-key (especially if it is unfamiliar to me). However, music I am familiar with sounds exactly like I remember before losing my hearing.

So I *don't* hear any differently than someone with normal hearing. On second thought, I take that back. Sometimes I hear *better* than they do! :)
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Ahem.. well, In my post, I said that no ci users hear the exactly same way that hearing people hear.

But

you do hear the same way you heard before losing your hearing.

Although you can hear the sounds at certain db levels that hearing people can hear at. not exactly same. for example you may hear them at few frequency off than what hearing people heard. considering that CI digitized the sound to your brian than analog (thru the traditional way without CI or HA) AND that CI doesn't cover the whole range of frequency...

(my CI stop at 250 hertz, that's the lowest it can go and hopefully that Harmony will go lower than that, so hearing people can hear lower than that.)

You know what I mean?

Of course you will hear those sound emitted at specific db level that hearing people heard but you may repeat the sound by imitating it slightly different. but you can processes and know what was said.

hope that was clear and agreeable hmm?
 
Boult said:
I think the link is old since the site has been updated so it's broken then DD will have to find what she wanted to give you to look at.

From looking at the link that DD gave you I am guessing, she wanted you to look at this one: Oliver Sacks . An Anthropologist on Mars
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That was my guess. I have the book and again, there's a film covering the same subject...
But I want to hear from DD what she means...
 
Boult,

Thanks for the clarification! Now I understand what you were trying to convey in your post. Agreed! :)

I believe the Nucleus N24 and Freedom CIs can go as low as 180 Hz, but I'm not certain. That would be a good question to ask my audi or someone at Cochlear!
 
deafdyke said:
........... It's about sight.....a blind guy who had an operation to restore his sight, but it's NOT AT ALL what sighted people think of when they think of seeing. .
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DeafDyke,
Having your senses restore will not automatically mean you can use them. Hearing does not mean understanding speech. Having vision does not mean one can see.
We learn from early stage that a small car is far away, a big car is close by. A person growing up in the Amazone will have a maximum view of say 50 meters. He/she will be overwhelmed when in Texas or Holland with a horizon 15 kilometers away.

With CI, sound will be experienced. Time is needed to make sense of the sounds. Eventually the brain knows how to interpret the sounds, and "metallic" noises or "micky-mouse" voices will disappear.... like HearAgain allready explained.
 
I always refer to an incident that happened last winter when talking about how well Lilly can hear with her CI. She hears things that I cannot. I had Lilly at work with me. We were standing in the hall talking to someone, when Lilly turmed her heard towards an open door, then walked over to it, looked inside and smiled. Apparently, the detective sitting at his desk, leaned back in his chair. When he did this, I didn't hear it. But Lilly did. She went to investigate and found a someone there smiling at her waving to her.
As I said, I didnt hear it. She hears better than I do now, with 1 CI. I can only imagine how much better she will be able to hear and locate sound when she gets her other CI. I realize the actual measurable amount of hearing improvement will be limited. The huge gain will be in sound source identification and the ability to block background noise.
As far as I am concerned, based on myobservations of Lillys progress, there is actually no comparrison to HA and CI.They are simply not really comparable because they are so different.
 
Lillys dad said:
I always refer to an incident that happened last winter when talking about how well Lilly can hear with her CI. She hears things that I cannot. I had Lilly at work with me. We were standing in the hall talking to someone, when Lilly turmed her heard towards an open door, then walked over to it, looked inside and smiled. Apparently, the detective sitting at his desk, leaned back in his chair. When he did this, I didn't hear it. But Lilly did. She went to investigate and found a someone there smiling at her waving to her.
As I said, I didnt hear it. She hears better than I do now, with 1 CI. I can only imagine how much better she will be able to hear and locate sound when she gets her other CI. I realize the actual measurable amount of hearing improvement will be limited. The huge gain will be in sound source identification and the ability to block background noise.
As far as I am concerned, based on myobservations of Lillys progress, there is actually no comparrison to HA and CI.They are simply not really comparable because they are so different.
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So CI's do really good with environment noises? What about speech discrimination?
 
I think that discrimination is the actual issue with the usefulness of any assistivelistening devise. It really doesn't matter what frequency one is able to perceive, or what dB level is necessary for perception if discrimination at those levels is not possible. Without discrimination, one cannot interpret the sounds, and therefore perception only provides for meaningless, distracting noise.

Is the teorty you are looking for Whorf's theories on language acquisition, shel?
 
Lillys dad said:
........ I realize the actual measurable amount of hearing improvement will be limited. The huge gain will be in sound source identification and the ability to block background noise.
...............
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You'll be surprised! It will make a big difference, because like you said, there's now the ability to block out noise. With 1 CI that ability is not there.
And with this ability she has the means to focus better on what she's told, what she's hearing etc. And all this will inmprove vocabulary, speech, knowledge.
She'll pick up things that she cannot pick up now.
For example, just a remark to your wife that you'll just pop into town is not heared now due to noise. So, when you go, she doesn't know what's happeneing.
With Bi-lateral there's a good chance that she WILL hear it, even though it was not said to her, and when you leave, she allready knows what's going on.

Really, Bi-lateral is much more than just hearing where the sound comes from.
 
shel90 said:
So CI's do really good with environment noises? What about speech discrimination?
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Speech discrimination is greatly improved when noise is reduced. They go together.

I allways compare it to calling someone in a noisy bar. The person on the other side is not bothered by it and can hear me fine. I on the other hand can only hear with one ear (telephone) and will have difficulty understanding.

Come to think of this, this is probably totally unfamiliar ground for HOH people, as such a conversation might be close to impossible anyway....
 
jillio said:
I think that discrimination is the actual issue with the usefulness of any assistivelistening devise. It really doesn't matter what frequency one is able to perceive, or what dB level is necessary for perception if discrimination at those levels is not possible. Without discrimination, one cannot interpret the sounds, and therefore perception only provides for meaningless, distracting noise.

Is the teorty you are looking for Whorf's theories on language acquisition, shel?
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Got intreagued... Wikipedia is good help...
The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis primarily dealt with the way that language affects thought. Also sometimes called the Whorfian hypothesis, this theory claims that the language a person speaks affects the way that he or she thinks, meaning that the structure of the language itself affects cognition.
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jillio said:
I think that discrimination is the actual issue with the usefulness of any assistivelistening devise. It really doesn't matter what frequency one is able to perceive, or what dB level is necessary for perception if discrimination at those levels is not possible. Without discrimination, one cannot interpret the sounds, and therefore perception only provides for meaningless, distracting noise.

Is the teorty you are looking for Whorf's theories on language acquisition, shel?
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no theories I am looking for ...just wondering if CIs can help with discriminating speech sounds especially the ones that are similiar like the s's and t's.

With my HA, I can discriminate a few speech sounds like the vowels but when it comes to some consonants..impossible. I remember so many hours with my speech teacher trying to learn how to discriminate those sounds. Now, I understand that is it just impossible with my 120 dB hearing loss and why didnt my speech therapist who studied speech and deafness know that? :dunno:
 
As a bilateral CI user, I can tell you that my ability to hear environmental sounds and understand speech in noise is greatly improved when using two CIs compared to one. With one CI, speech sounds "tinny" and environmental sounds are more difficult (although not impossible) to hear from a distance. With two CIs, speech sounds fuller and richer. With two CIs, speech and environmental sounds are easier to hear in quiet and in noise. When I was tested in the torture chamber (err, I mean sound booth :)) my ability to hear in noise improved from 90% with one CI to 97% with two.
 
Quote:
The Sapir-Whorf hypothesis primarily dealt with the way that language affects thought. Also sometimes called the Whorfian hypothesis, this theory claims that the language a person speaks affects the way that he or she thinks, meaning that the structure of the language itself affects cognition


I have a few students in my class (I teach 1st grade) who have no use of their CIs and dont have language since they just started learning ASL so now I can believe why their ability to pick up on language whether it is either ASL or English in print is severly delayed if the Whorfian hypostesis is true about how the structure of the language itself affect congnition . Now I can keep that in mind whenever my student struggle to remember their vocabulary with ASL and English.

Yes, those students got their CIs prelingually. It seems the CI is not working for them so their parents had them sent to my school knowing that they need ASL to develop language. I just hope it is not too late. :(
 
Shel,

Yes, CIs can definitely help one perceive consonant sounds better. In fact, when my first CI was activated, I heard the "sss" and "sh" sounds for the first time in many years. I couldn't believe how clearly I was hearing them and how easy they were to recognize! With hearing aids, I could only hear vowel sounds. It has been at least 20 years since I could hear well enough to discern consonants, so my CIs have definitely been a big help in that regard. No question about it! :)
 
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