cochlear implant opinons

Cloggy said:
In Sound and Fury they show a deaf girl that has chose CI that uses sign. (The first child the family visits)
The other child (Shelby) does not know sign. She has hearing parents, hearing family and was implanted at 1 year of age... Why should she know sign? She communicates without problems with her relatives. LAter in life, she might want to investigate deafness. At the moment she is in total communication with her family.

Regarding seeing CI-children at deaf events.... why would they be there..??
These children would have to get there with their parents. There have been very negative experiences of parents going to Deaf events. This might not be the general attitude, but the feeling of negativity is still there. The parents might not be able to communicate using sign. The deaf people might not communicate using speech.

You must remember the reaction towards the parents in Sound and Fury at the deaf event... The mother was called "a bad mother" and in general there were many attacks on these parents..... who spoke fluent sign....
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Oh, come on Cloggy. You have a very clear understanding that any language is more easily learned to fluency in childhood! Later in life means more difficulty.

Why should Selby use sign, or be exposed to the Deaf community? Because she is deaf, for God's sake!!!! Having a CI does not make a child hearing!!! Why should her parents be exposed to the deaf community? Because their daughter is a deaf child and it is and always will be an integral part of who she is.

You use sign with your own daughter. Surely you understand this.

If a child can later choose to become a part of the Deaf community, then that child can also later choose to have a CI. Membership in a community does not involve major surgery, nor does withdrawal from that community require an additional major surgery. You can't say the same for CI.
 
Jillo,
I just love you! :gpost: I agree with everything that you just stated.
 
SpiceHD said:
If you are against Cochlear Implant... why?

If you are supporting Cochlear Implant... why?

see im doing research on that for college homework. im supposed to find 7 articles on both support and against on Cochlear implant with children. i do not have much luck so far to find good ones. so i need your feedback and maybe find me an article or something. Thank you. Appeciate it.

and no agruement here please? this is for research not for your debate against each other. If you want to agrue with one person trying to convince to change that person's mind do it in other thread not this one. i need opinions and the hard cold facts to back it up. Thats all i ask. thank you.
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A) If one wants to function in hearing world and cannot get enough benefit from HAs then I support CI choice. ( I have been going in that direction as my loss gets worse over time .. hearing aids suck on me especially for speech perception at times.. with my HAs, I can hear most of the environmental sounds around me but cannot get speech clearly )

B) If one wants to live in the way his/her body's directions and doesn't have much concern on hearing world then he/she doesn't need CI. I support this choice too.

I am against to force anyone to have a CI or to avoid it . It's up to each individual's own world.
 
jillio said:
Oh, come on Cloggy. You have a very clear understanding that any language is more easily learned to fluency in childhood! Later in life means more difficulty.
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True, including sign. But I feel that speech is more important.
jillio said:
Why should Selby use sign, or be exposed to the Deaf community? Because she is deaf, for God's sake!!!! Having a CI does not make a child hearing!!! Why should her parents be exposed to the deaf community? Because their daughter is a deaf child and it is and always will be an integral part of who she is.
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You are confusing the identity who grew up deaf-without sound with a child who only knows deaf with sound. She grew up hearing!
jillio said:
You use sign with your own daughter. Surely you understand this.
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I do... and the most importent thing in a child life is being able to communicate with the parents. In our case this needed to be sign at first because the CI-operation was not in sight. So, we started sign. For parents where their child has CI before real communication started, sign might not be needed. And I don't blame them for not using it. Tey have enough other things on their mind. Adding time going to learn sign will not benefit the parents nor the child.... In the future, this might change.
jillio said:
If a child can later choose to become a part of the Deaf community, then that child can also later choose to have a CI. Membership in a community does not involve major surgery, nor does withdrawal from that community require an additional major surgery. You can't say the same for CI.
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Making a child choose later on is removing possibilities... Research has shown that the results are FAR better (Not just a bit, but hugely better) when CI is given as soon as possible...
When parents say "let the child choose" then in fact the parents choose to reduce possibilities for their child.....
And remember... the point of view for deaf parents of deaf children (about 3 to 10%) is very different compared to hearing parents.... It's a huge difference!

By the way... if the child can get both speech AND sign from the parents or from the people around... excellent.
 
Jillio- "CI should be a choice of the d/hh individual. When hearing parents implant a child in an attempt to make that child more similar to themselves and the majority culture, the message is communicated to the child that unless they behave as hearing, and communicate as hearing, they are inferior as a person"

Sorry, I havge to disagree with you. If the child is raised with a connection to the deaf community and an understanding of the deaf culture, and the child is taught sign, how is the child being taught that they are inferior?
As you know, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, just like you. You also know that Lillt has a CI. Almost all of her little friends are deaf. Some know a little ASL, some do not know any. Her best little friend was taught ASL as her primary form of communication until she was implanted. She now uses both.
She goes to a CID in the morning with all deaf kids. Then she goes to a daycare where the only deaf kids in the building are her and her best friend. Her friend is there 3 days per week.
So how is this making her feel that she is inferior? She spends more than half the week around other deaf kids, the rest with hearing. She is completely comfortable around both. The hearing kids are comfortable with her and her friend. Alot of these kids will go to elementary school with Lilly when she is older. She is already accepted as who she is (not what she is).
So how would this scenario make her feel anything but confident about herself?

BTW, If I remember correctly, the last time I responded to one of your threads, I was a little agressive. I apoligize.
 
Lillys dad said:
Jillio- "CI should be a choice of the d/hh individual. When hearing parents implant a child in an attempt to make that child more similar to themselves and the majority culture, the message is communicated to the child that unless they behave as hearing, and communicate as hearing, they are inferior as a person"

Sorry, I havge to disagree with you. If the child is raised with a connection to the deaf community and an understanding of the deaf culture, and the child is taught sign, how is the child being taught that they are inferior?
As you know, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, just like you. You also know that Lillt has a CI. Almost all of her little friends are deaf. Some know a little ASL, some do not know any. Her best little friend was taught ASL as her primary form of communication until she was implanted. She now uses both.
She goes to a CID in the morning with all deaf kids. Then she goes to a daycare where the only deaf kids in the building are her and her best friend. Her friend is there 3 days per week.
So how is this making her feel that she is inferior? She spends more than half the week around other deaf kids, the rest with hearing. She is completely comfortable around both. The hearing kids are comfortable with her and her friend. Alot of these kids will go to elementary school with Lilly when she is older. She is already accepted as who she is (not what she is).
So how would this scenario make her feel anything but confident about herself?

BTW, If I remember correctly, the last time I responded to one of your threads, I was a little agressive. I apoligize.
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I have good idea but you wouldn't like it.

There's optional about send Lilly to Missouri School for the Deaf (MSD) or Kendall Demonstration Elementary School (KDES), one is located in your state and other one is located in Washington D.C. but both of school can be good and improving than before. Some kids with CI are going to deaf school and there's speech classes for free at deaf school. KDES is taking great care with children who have CI but not know about MSD but visiting is good idea. I had been in deaf school before and not bad but some cons about dorm policies and great place for children, and many teens are depressing at dorm but not all deaf school does. Both of deaf school don't have uniform policies, unlike serveral deaf school in southeast USA. You have rights to tell them and want know what Lilly is doing.

KDES
Kendall Demonstration Elementary School's, Laurent Clerc National Deaf Education Center, Gallaudet University

MSD
Missouri School for the Deaf

Hopefully would help but please don't aggressive at me if you don't like about my idea.

Also, some people said KDES is good school and much improving than last 5 years ago.
 
Pacman said:
I have good idea but you wouldn't like it.

There's optional about send Lilly to Missouri School for the Deaf (MSD) or Kendall Demonstration Elementary School (KDES), one is located in your state and other one is located in Washington D.C. but both of school can be good and improving than before. Some kids with CI are going to deaf school and there's speech classes for free at deaf school. KDES is taking great care with children who have CI but not know about MSD but visiting is good idea. I had been in deaf school before and not bad but some cons about dorm policies and great place for children, and many teens are depressing at dorm but not all deaf school does. Both of deaf school don't have uniform policies, unlike serveral deaf school in southeast USA. You have rights to tell them and want know what Lilly is doing.

KDES
Kendall Demonstration Elementary School's, Laurent Clerc National Deaf Education Center, Gallaudet University

MSD
Missouri School for the Deaf

Hopefully would help but please don't aggressive at me if you don't like about my idea.

Also, some people said KDES is good school and much improving than last 5 years ago.
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I wouldn't recommend sending anyone to the Missouri School for the Deaf. I have been to that school and have seen how it is run. It is terrible. It used to be a state mental hospital and it is right on property with the new state mental hospital and also the state prison as well, in plain sight. Not the kind of school I would send my kids to, nor is it safe. What if some murderer in the state prison escapes and comes over to the school and kills everyone there? And also, when I was there, so many students there had a very low IQ or are low-functioning, not anywhere as smart as the kids at my school (Wisconsin School for the Deaf) and even so, WSD really sucked. But MSD sucks even worse! Their education sucks worse! Trust me.
 
LuciaDisturbed said:
I wouldn't recommend sending anyone to the Missouri School for the Deaf. I have been to that school and have seen how it is run. It is terrible. It used to be a state mental hospital and it is right on property with the new state mental hospital and also the state prison as well, in plain sight. Not the kind of school I would send my kids to, nor is it safe. What if some murderer in the state prison escapes and comes over to the school and kills everyone there? And also, when I was there, so many students there had a very low IQ, not anywhere as smart as the kids at my school (Wisconsin School for the Deaf) and even so, WSD really sucked. But MSD sucks even worse! Trust me.
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Damn, that horrible stories about MSD.

I wouldn't send my children to CSDR or ISD (Illinois) because Neo said ISD isn't good school and CSDR isn't great as CSDF does, and bad program for teens.
 
Jane K. Fernandes would love you so much for hating deaf schools. :rl:
 
umm... any resources i can go find more info on cochlear implants and children? *trying to get topic back on the track*
 
Well these are all pro so you'll have to look somewhere else to get the negative side of implanting very young children when it comes to speaking language. If you go to webmd you can search yourself for cochlear implants there are more articles. Some deal with the risk of menengitus which you could use for your con side of the arguement.

Treating Childhood Hearing Loss

Cochlear Implant Can Improve the Lives of Deaf Children

Cochlear Implants a Success for Once-Deaf Kids

Cochlear Implants Are Better Early in Life

Hearing Trouble

found this with alot of different articles....Cochlear Implant Information & Resources

There are articles out there and they really aren't that hard to find. I'm sure there are some against the CI to but I'm going to bed now so you can look around and find that side of your paper yourself. Have a good day. :)
 
jag said:
Well these are all pro so you'll have to look somewhere else to get the negative side of implanting very young children when it comes to speaking language. If you go to webmd you can search yourself for cochlear implants there are more articles. Some deal with the risk of menengitus which you could use for your con side of the arguement.

Treating Childhood Hearing Loss

Cochlear Implant Can Improve the Lives of Deaf Children

Cochlear Implants a Success for Once-Deaf Kids

Cochlear Implants Are Better Early in Life

Hearing Trouble

found this with alot of different articles....Cochlear Implant Information & Resources

There are articles out there and they really aren't that hard to find. I'm sure there are some against the CI to but I'm going to bed now so you can look around and find that side of your paper yourself. Have a good day. :)
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WONDERFUL! thats what i need! thanks!
 
Lillys dad said:
Jillio- "CI should be a choice of the d/hh individual. When hearing parents implant a child in an attempt to make that child more similar to themselves and the majority culture, the message is communicated to the child that unless they behave as hearing, and communicate as hearing, they are inferior as a person"

Sorry, I havge to disagree with you. If the child is raised with a connection to the deaf community and an understanding of the deaf culture, and the child is taught sign, how is the child being taught that they are inferior?
As you know, I am a hearing parent of a deaf child, just like you. You also know that Lillt has a CI. Almost all of her little friends are deaf. Some know a little ASL, some do not know any. Her best little friend was taught ASL as her primary form of communication until she was implanted. She now uses both.
She goes to a CID in the morning with all deaf kids. Then she goes to a daycare where the only deaf kids in the building are her and her best friend. Her friend is there 3 days per week.
So how is this making her feel that she is inferior? She spends more than half the week around other deaf kids, the rest with hearing. She is completely comfortable around both. The hearing kids are comfortable with her and her friend. Alot of these kids will go to elementary school with Lilly when she is older. She is already accepted as who she is (not what she is).
So how would this scenario make her feel anything but confident about herself?

BTW, If I remember correctly, the last time I responded to one of your threads, I was a little agressive. I apoligize.
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I agree with you on most points. As Lily is being exposed to deaf individuals, and is using sign as a form of communication, she is in an environment that allows her to still be deaf. I am speaking of the parents that implant a child, never expose that child to the world of deafness or other deaf individuals, and expect that child to completely function in a hearing world. They assume that the CI produces some resonse to sound, so that child is hearing, but with a handicap.

It is not the CI that I object to. It is the attitude of some parents--not you-- that deafness is a tradgedy, and the only way to deal with it is to implant and "make" that child hearing. The implanted child will never be hearing. They are still deaf, but with some sound perception. My biggest problem with the whole CI debate is that too many hearing parents see it as the only option. Rather than learning to deal with the deafness as acultural and linguistic difference, they only see it as something to be fixed. That is where the harm begins.
 
Sorry, I actually had to take a break before I finished---a Deaf student that I interpret for here at the college I work at (he has a CI, by the way)--stopped to chat about one of his classes.

Anyway, I have no problem with the CI, or with those who chose to have the implantation as a way to aument sound. My problem is with the parent that sees it as the only option. My problem is withthe attitude of those who are so afraid of deafness, or intimidated by it, or so insecure withthemselves that they feel they must, at all costs, make their child exactly like them. These are the parents that believe a CI will make their child hearing, the same way people at one time believed if you put a hearing aid on a kid and made them learn to speak they would be hearing. CI kids are still deaf in my opinion, and to not allow them to explore that world and see that there are others just like them who are successful and happy isolates that child and causes additional emotional and social problems for the child. They believe they have "fixed" the deafness, but at what cost to the child's emotional well being?
 
Cloggy said:
True, including sign. But I feel that speech is more important.You are confusing the identity who grew up deaf-without sound with a child who only knows deaf with sound. She grew up hearing!I do... and the most importent thing in a child life is being able to communicate with the parents. In our case this needed to be sign at first because the CI-operation was not in sight. So, we started sign. For parents where their child has CI before real communication started, sign might not be needed. And I don't blame them for not using it. Tey have enough other things on their mind. Adding time going to learn sign will not benefit the parents nor the child.... In the future, this might change.
Making a child choose later on is removing possibilities... Research has shown that the results are FAR better (Not just a bit, but hugely better) when CI is given as soon as possible...
When parents say "let the child choose" then in fact the parents choose to reduce possibilities for their child.....
And remember... the point of view for deaf parents of deaf children (about 3 to 10%) is very different compared to hearing parents.... It's a huge difference!

By the way... if the child can get both speech AND sign from the parents or from the people around... excellent.
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Yep: you believe speech is more important because you are hearing. You believe that communication within the family is important--I agree. But as I am the adult and the one who is responsible for addressing my child's needs, I believe that to faciltate communication, I had to make the adjustments. It was far easier for me to learn sign, and make adjustments in my life than it was for my son to learn spoken language, and force a situation on him that he did not understand. Ayoung child who cannot communicate doesn't understand the whys or the hows of the situation. They only know that Mommy doesn't understand what they are trying to get across, and their needs are not being met. The deaf child should not be the one made responsible for correcting that situation. The hearing parent should.

I truly love the statement you made "deaf without sound" as opposed to deaf with sound. Thanks for making my point for me. Deaf with sound is still deaf. Some sound perception is not hearing.

As for the parents who have enough on their minds that they should not have to expend the effort to learn sign for the sake of their deaf child. HOW INCREDIBLY SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED IS THAT??? It is your child, for God's sake. You brought that child into the world and you are responsible for attending to that child's needs. No one said it would be easy. No one said it wouldn't take effort. My personal opinion is that parents who refuse to learn sign simply because it would be inconvienient for them to do so are abusive and not deserving of parenting any child--hearing or deaf.

Choosing later does not remove opportunity if you supply alternates.

The opinions can't be generalized. I am a hearing parent and I went to great lengths to insure that my son was raised Deaf. I do not feel the need to implant him with surgiucal devices to make him more like me. Should he ever choose to have a CI based on his own assessment of what he needs to get by in this world, I will support him in his decision. But it is his to make, not mine to make for him.
 
jillio said:
Yep: you believe speech is more important because you are hearing. You believe that communication within the family is important--I agree. But as I am the adult and the one who is responsible for addressing my child's needs, I believe that to faciltate communication, I had to make the adjustments. It was far easier for me to learn sign, and make adjustments in my life than it was for my son to learn spoken language, and force a situation on him that he did not understand. Ayoung child who cannot communicate doesn't understand the whys or the hows of the situation. They only know that Mommy doesn't understand what they are trying to get across, and their needs are not being met. The deaf child should not be the one made responsible for correcting that situation. The hearing parent should.

I truly love the statement you made "deaf without sound" as opposed to deaf with sound. Thanks for making my point for me. Deaf with sound is still deaf. Some sound perception is not hearing.

As for the parents who have enough on their minds that they should not have to expend the effort to learn sign for the sake of their deaf child. HOW INCREDIBLY SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED IS THAT??? It is your child, for God's sake. You brought that child into the world and you are responsible for attending to that child's needs. No one said it would be easy. No one said it wouldn't take effort. My personal opinion is that parents who refuse to learn sign simply because it would be inconvienient for them to do so are abusive and not deserving of parenting any child--hearing or deaf.

Choosing later does not remove opportunity if you supply alternates.

The opinions can't be generalized. I am a hearing parent and I went to great lengths to insure that my son was raised Deaf. I do not feel the need to implant him with surgiucal devices to make him more like me. Should he ever choose to have a CI based on his own assessment of what he needs to get by in this world, I will support him in his decision. But it is his to make, not mine to make for him.
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I believe communication is more important than speech. When communication can be established using speech, that would be excellent. If not, sign is a wonderful way of communication.

Regarding your strong reaction with "As for the parents who have enough on their minds that they should not have to expend the effort to learn sign for the sake of their deaf child." there I was not referring to selfish things. I'm referring to working for your child to get the best posibilities, help, therapy.
Sane parents are really a very good thing for children.

I congratulate you on working so hard to raise your child deaf... We are working hard to raise our child hearing.... with all options to explore the deaf world. I hope your child will have all options to explore the hearing world if it chooses to do so...

And regarding "It is his to make, not mine"... as you can see from the road we chose... I disagree. It is the responsibility of the parent make a choice. Not the child. You made a choice. Your child - like mine - will just have to accept it. Like it or not.
 
SpiceHD said:
umm... any resources i can go find more info on cochlear implants and children? *trying to get topic back on the track*
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I have posted plenty of links regarding CI in AD so did others, take your time to browse thru this section for old threads.

Listen-up.org is one of them that I provided ages ago.
 
jillio said:
As for the parents who have enough on their minds that they should not have to expend the effort to learn sign for the sake of their deaf child. HOW INCREDIBLY SELFISH AND SELF CENTERED IS THAT??? It is your child, for God's sake. You brought that child into the world and you are responsible for attending to that child's needs. No one said it would be easy. No one said it wouldn't take effort. My personal opinion is that parents who refuse to learn sign simply because it would be inconvienient for them to do so are abusive and not deserving of parenting any child--hearing or deaf.

Choosing later does not remove opportunity if you supply alternates.

The opinions can't be generalized. I am a hearing parent and I went to great lengths to insure that my son was raised Deaf. I do not feel the need to implant him with surgiucal devices to make him more like me. Should he ever choose to have a CI based on his own assessment of what he needs to get by in this world, I will support him in his decision. But it is his to make, not mine to make for him.
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Again :gpost: Jillio!
 
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