Cochlear implant mends lives

Cloggy said:
"Forcing CI on a child".... so that's how you view the decision of the parent...

"Limiting the choices for the child" is what I could call your decision....
make that "Limiting the choices for the child" is what I call your decision....

Sure, he's happy, etc, but does he really have a choice.....???? If he has, his opportunities have been reducing since you took the decision...
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And how hasa my son been limited? He can function in both worlds.
 
Tousi said:
And dare I add (I really don't want to), what we have left is the ugly specter of audism? But that's your right, Cloggy. Why not just come right out and say that YOU, not Lotte, but YOU want nothing to do with the deaf world? I would still respect you more for harboring that feeling.
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**nodding agreement** At least that would be an honest admission, and not the use of a child to justify prejudice.
 
MomToDeafChild said:
Frankly, if my child had a HEARING teacher that had distorted speech, I think I'd have a problem with THAT. It just makes it more difficult for ANYONE to understand if they have to try and decipher someone's speech on top of trying to comprehend what is being taught.

I had a Calculus professor in college that kept saying alpher and theeter, and it took me a week to figure out he was saying Alpha and Theta!!
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LOL
 
MomToDeafChild said:
Frankly, if my child had a HEARING teacher that had distorted speech, I think I'd have a problem with THAT. It just makes it more difficult for ANYONE to understand if they have to try and decipher someone's speech on top of trying to comprehend what is being taught.

I had a Calculus professor in college that kept saying alpher and theeter, and it took me a week to figure out he was saying Alpha and Theta!!
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Well..u know that most deaf people's voices are not perfect so if I would to apply to work with your son, I wouldnt get the job simply because my voice is not perfect? Isnt that discrimination in a way which would make it ironic cuz that would mean deaf people who dont have speech skills or less than perfect speech skills wouldnt be able to get jobs working in the field of deafness? That would be kinda breaking the laws here in US for equal opportunity employment...:dunno:
 
shel90 said:
he even said he doesnt want a person who is deaf teaching his daughter cuz our speech is distorted. I think that says a lot right there but I am glad that he was honest about it instead of skirting around it like some of the other parents are when it comes to that question...
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Well, Shel, I can agree with Cloggy about that single comment; however, for deaf children who who would not fare as well as Lotte, you and people like you are there for them via ASL while the family and specialized staff take care of the speech, etc. This would go hand in hand with those who have BOTH attitudinal outlooks via both speech training in the linear language of English and the visual of ASL.

I DO have a problem how that's pulled off in the educational setting but that's another topic. Kudos to you if I haven't said it before. I stand by and ready with Oreo-sized aspirins for folks like you and anyone else, for that matter...on both sides of the aisle. Lol!
 
shel90 said:
Well..u know that most deaf people's voices are not perfect so if I would to apply to work with your son, I wouldnt get the job simply because my voice is not perfect? Isnt that discrimination in a way which would make it ironic cuz that would mean deaf people who dont have speech skills or less than perfect speech skills wouldnt be able to get jobs working in the field of deafness? That would be kinda breaking the laws here in US for equal opportunity employment...:dunno:
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I'm just saying that speech problems aren't exclusive to the deaf, there are plenty of hearing people you can't understand a lot worse!
 
Tousi said:
Well, Shel, I can agree with Cloggy about that single comment; however, for deaf children who who would not fare as well as Lotte, you and people like you are there for them via ASL while the family and specialized staff take care of the speech, etc. This would go hand in hand with those who have BOTH attitudinal outlooks via both speech training in the linear language of English and the visual of ASL.

I DO have a problem how that's pulled off in the educational setting but that's another topic. Kudos to you if I haven't said it before. I stand by and ready with Oreo-sized aspirins for folks like you and anyone else, for that matter...on both sides of the aisle. Lol!
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U know there are some deaf people who teach hearing children and they use terps to communicate with the students (I really dont know how that works) but why not the same in oral deaf ed?
 
shel90 said:
U know there are some deaf people who teach hearing children and they use terps to communicate with the students (I really dont know how that works) ...
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I would imagine <dryly> they (the terps) both speak and sign to the hearing kids.
 
sr171soars said:
I would imagine <dryly> they (the terps) both speak and sign to the hearing kids.
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What I mean was with teaching, the teacher has to wear many hats at once while on the job and just wondered how that would work if the teacher relies on a terp but I have heard of many deaf people being able to pull it off. Just wondering how it works since I have never seen it in action myself..that's all.
 
One of my teachers (deaf herself) at MSSD used to teach in a public school with a terp. I Think it can be done.
 
jillio said:
..........
And, yes, you could study, but apparently you find that too great of a drain on your time, or see that by becoming more informed of the reality of the situation, you would perhaps have to adjust your position.

If I must explain to you how America is different from the rest of the world, you are obviously less in possession of critical thinking skills that I previously thought. And why is it, whenever your points are refuted with valid and creible arguments, it is only a diversion? The only diversion being created is the one in which you refuse to offer proof of your arguments and then bring up irrelevant points to redirect the issues.
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Jillio, Jillio, Jillio....... there you go again..
 
Tousi said:
And dare I add (I really don't want to), what we have left is the ugly specter of audism? But that's your right, Cloggy. Why not just come right out and say that YOU, not Lotte, but YOU want nothing to do with the deaf world? I would still respect you more for harboring that feeling.
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Ah, finally an real question... or is it an accusation.
Fortunately, being a foreigner, I can't really tell....

I absolutely DO NOT want to have nothing to do with the deaf world.
Heck, my daughter is deaf.
 
shel90 said:
U know there are some deaf people who teach hearing children and they use terps to communicate with the students (I really dont know how that works) but why not the same in oral deaf ed?
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Exactly. We have a Deaf ASL instructor here, and students are all expected to communicate without voice in her classroom. If necessary, when she meets with administration or with a student privately, she will use a terp. Han't seem to cause any problems so far, and her students learn more ASL than they learn from the instructor that allows them to use voice when they hit a blank.
 
Tousi said:
And dare I add (I really don't want to), what we have left is the ugly specter of audism? But that's your right, Cloggy. Why not just come right out and say that YOU, not Lotte, but YOU want nothing to do with the deaf world? I would still respect you more for harboring that feeling.
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I second that.
 
Cloggy said:
History has been very unjust for the d/Deaf since the expected mode of communication was never good enough to fill the communication-gap.
However, that is history. Times are changing. The excuse and/or argument of history becomes weaker and weaker. One should not compare today with events that happened 100+ years ago, because people believed that the only way for deaf people to get into heaven was to be able to speak...
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OH MY GOD you are so right. As a parent to 2 deaf CI oral teenagers and as oral teacher of deaf/hh, this is what I have been trying to say that yes places like John Tracy were hard core oral but they are not now. Of course they do not sign with their students but they tell parents about these options and tell parents when they think their child will be able to be oral. The other thing I know how hard it was to be oral 15 20 years ago. Not impossible but hard now a days it so much easier.

Techonology has changed so much with have better hearing aides and better implants. Plus what we have in California and I hope every where else in the country is new born screening. Sometimes by the end of the second month the child can be diagnosis with the hearing loss. I have seen little ones by 2 months with hearing aides. New born screening is still in the beginning stages. It so exciting.
 
neecy said:
No what they (the negative posters) make it sound like - is that ANYBODY who is happy with a CI, and telling other people about it is automatically insulting deaf culture. Its as its its blasphemous to say somebody DOESN'T LIKE BEING DEAF!!!

WHY should every person who is deaf have to like being that way or "be proud" of being deaf? Is it WRONG to want to be able to hear? And if so, why is the message that some people DON'T like being deaf so horrible? Sure there are many people who love their deafness, but there are just as many who hate it. Those who appreciate their CI's shouldn't be attacked because they don't embrace the Deaf Way Of Life. Everybody is different - and her choice and her happiness has no effect on how you (the negative posters) live your own life, so why are you so threatened that you HAVE to put down anything that's of a positive nature regarding CI's?

I'm very happy for her, and hope that she continues to express her experiences to others, so that others can SEE for themselves that CI's are not a sentence to a life of turmoil and sadness that so many from the "other side" try to paint.
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I am so glad you said that. Why does every deaf person have to be happy at being deaf. Some people are being Deaf more power to them but same respect should be shown to people don't like to deaf, who love their CI's or HA. Are so happy to hear the little things they were not able to.

We have to learn accept each other our uniques beliefs and differences not think that because we are deaf we should believe in the same thing
 
rick48 said:
I would be curious to know from other parents and from adult ci users, what were the most important factors that you considered in making your decision to get a cochlear implant for either your child or for yourself?

Was is advertising from implant manufacturers? Statements from ci surgeons. Statements from audilogists. Your own observations of actual ci users? Something else?

I know for my wife and I it was our personal observations of actual ci users both adults and children and our discussions with adult users and parents of ci children.

Advertising and marketing played absolutely no role whatsover in our decision. The ci surgeons we talked to made it clear that the decision was ours and ours alone to make, they did not try to convince us to have the surgery for our child. Also the implant team, especially our audiologist, downplayed and understated the benefits he thought our daughter could derive form the implant. At all times they were professional and above board in dealing with us?
Rick
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Rick you are so right I never saw any advertising from the manufactors. When we went through our pre-implant stuff, which was 6 full days of appointments with the ENT, surgeon, Audiologist, educational consultant, speech therapy, and a full day with a psychologist to make sure that we understood what the implant could and could not do. I had the exact same feelings. I would tell my husband I think they are trying to talk us out of it.

With my daughter's pre-implant we only had about 3 days of appointments to go through because they knew we knew what the implant was and wasn't
 
Cloggy said:
Maybe not fore some, but in a way it IS a miracle. And integration in the hearing world is something that is done by many deaf children nowadays, that grow up with CI.
Except that this time daef people are able to hear. It is a different ballgame compared to 20+ years ago, and totally incomparable to 100+ years ago.
With more than 90% of the deaf children born from hearing parents, who else would the industry turn to? These parents (like me) have no previous knowledge of deafness. These parents live in a world with sound. Deafness is something foreign to them.
But fear of deafness is not the reason for choosing the road where the child can hear sounds, it is the knowledge of sounds that is driving them.
Communication, music, nature.... who wouldn't want their child to experience that.
Previously, oral or sign would still mean "no sound" and parents listened to the experts (who sometimes were wrong) before making a decision. Nowadays there's a third choice, that actually does not exclude the previous two!

The CI is developed with the best intentions. When you suggest that they just want to dump their products, and do not care about future development, then I believe you are wrong. Everything (in combination with willingnes and effort of the person with CI) is done to make it a success.
When for some reason CI is not the solution, other people will step in to help.
People like you and Shel and many others. Just like you will help deaf people that never had a CI and have similar problems. Problems with communication.
Don't blame the CI-manufacturers when CI "doesn't work" because technically, it does work.
Often the problem lies with the implantee. Being deaf too long, thinking hearing means understanding, not accepting that CI means hard work as well.... etc.

"Allowing" would sugest that there is concern from the majority, and basically, most of the majority has no clue. It is almost up to the government to protect the minority.
I mean; are we really concerned that Chinese people in the USA retain their language??? I really don't think about it... and I really do not want 1 hour of chinese on our schools just for the Chinese minority.
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Cloggy you are just so right, when a person is not able to use his/her implant to develop oral skills it very rare that the faults llies with the implant. It is the majority of time the implantee and their family because they didn't follow the way they are suppose to.
 
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