Cochlear implant mends lives

[shel90]

Because you have used an analogy that compares two things that are alike in certain respects, and consequently suggest that sicne they share superficial characteristics, they share other characteristics as well. When you refer to Chinese retaining their language, you are refering to hearing Chinese. We are discussing a deaf population, and they share no more characteristics with the hearing Chinese population that they do with the hearing American poluation when applied to the issue of language.

Right, because Chinese hearing people are able to acquire spoken language whether it is in English or Chinese naturally but a majority of deaf people have to aquire spoken language using direct instruction and some may work and some may not therefore putting us at higher risk for being language delayed. By being language delayed, that can impact our future depending if we are able to catch up or not...

 

[jillio]

Right, because Chinese hearing people are able to acquire spoken language whether it is in English or Chinese naturally but a majority of deaf people have to aquire spoken language using direct instruction and some may work and some may not therefore putting us at higher risk for being language delayed. By being language delayed, that can impact our future depending if we are able to catch up or not...

BINGO! And that is why we have to very carefully read and anaylize the analogies and information that is provided. It often sounds reasonable, but when one looks a little closer, it is shown to be fallicious.

 

[Cloggy]

No it is not your lack of language, it is the fact that you operationally define working as becoming oral, and imply that those who don't are responsible for their own problems.

Where did you find that?

I'm talking about success (or lack of it) with CI..

 

[Cloggy]

Because you have used an analogy that compares two things that are alike in certain respects, and consequently suggest that sicne they share superficial characteristics, they share other characteristics as well. When you refer to Chinese retaining their language, you are refering to hearing Chinese. We are discussing a deaf population, and they share no more characteristics with the hearing Chinese population that they do with the hearing American poluation when applied to the issue of language.

Not if you see ASL as a complete language....
ASL is a language that only few people in the USA speak,
Chinese is a language that only few people in the USA speak....

 

[Cloggy]

Right, because Chinese hearing people are able to acquire spoken language whether it is in English or Chinese naturally but a majority of deaf people have to aquire spoken language using direct instruction and some may work and some may not therefore putting us at higher risk for being language delayed. By being language delayed, that can impact our future depending if we are able to catch up or not...

True

 

[shel90]

Not if you see ASL as a complete language....
ASL is a language that only few people in the USA speak,
Chinese is a language that only few people in the USA speak....

ASL is a language that is fully accessible to deaf people..BIG difference...spoken language is not 100% fully accessible to deaf people...that's the major point here..

 

[Cloggy]

ASL is a language that is fully accessible to deaf people..BIG difference...spoken language is not 100% fully accessible to deaf people...that's the major point here..

True.... Should we now all learn sign?

 

[shel90]

True.... Should we now all learn sign?

I posted why not parents be the models for spoken language and the schools provide sign language since most parents are not motivated to learn sign language anyway? Would that work? U dont have to learn sign language but just be the spoken language model and leave it to the schools to provide the info in both languages to ensure that NO deaf child is not missing out on anything cuz we dont know how much info the child can understand thru spoken language until they are WAY older and able to tell us how much info they get or missed.

 

[jillio]

Not if you see ASL as a complete language....
ASL is a language that only few people in the USA speak,
Chinese is a language that only few people in the USA speak....

Still doesn't work cloggy, and for the same reasons that I gave before. It is an argument based on fallacy.

 

[jillio]

True.... Should we now all learn sign?

Parents of deaf children should adapt to their child's circumstances. If you are speaking of an entire population of hearing as the we, of course not. But, and this is the but that qualifies everything, we should not deny to def children that which will enhance their learning experience and success in life based on the fact that it includes something that the general population does not know.

 

[shel90]

Parents of deaf children should adapt to their child's circumstances. If you are speaking of an entire population of hearing as the we, of course not. But, and this is the but that qualifies everything, we should not deny to def children that which will enhance their learning experience and success in life based on the fact that it includes something that the general population does not know.

yea, that would be great! Unfortunately, in most cases, that wont happen so I am just focusing on why not the schools be the role models for sign language for educational purposes instead of putting the deaf children in an oral only environment 24/7.

 

[jillio]

yea, that would be great! Unfortunately, in most cases, that wont happen so I am just focusing on why not the schools be the role models for sign language for educational purposes instead of putting the deaf children in an oral only environment 24/7.

**nodding agreement**

 

[shel90]

99+ % of the world is "oral-only"... It's human nature!

I went back and reread that statement..when I say I despite the oral-only view I am speaking of it as an educational approach for deaf/hoh children, not speaking of the general population. I dont think about nor have any feelings about the general population being oral only and I do adapt to meet those needs. I am only talking about in the educational setting where learning takes place when I made that statement. Just wanted to make sure it was clarified.

 

[rick48]

I find it difficult to believe that you, after observing CI users, approached the surgeon and the audi, and the other professionals concerned. You weren't refered by anyone in the medical field, but sought out the CI option all on your own. And if advertising wasn't involved at all, how is it that you came to be aware of the CI?

Why difficult to believe? Since we both have deaf children nearly the same age and since you made a decision to deny your child a ci, then you must have engaged in the same thorough research that we did in making our decision to give our daughter a cochlear implant? You just made a different decision.

Our research into the cochlear implant began in mid to late 1988 after our decision to raise our child orally. There was a child about a year and a half to two years older then our daughter enrolled in the same pre-school program who had just been implanted. So, did we first learn about the cochlear implant on our own or from seeing this child, it really does not matter. What we were able to observe is the profound and tremendous impact the ci had on a child just older then our daughter. So we talked to these parents extensively (we have remained friendly with them and our daughters remain friends to this day). Since this was the pre-google era, we also did old fashioned roll up your sleeves hard work learning about the ci and contacting various people.

We learned there was a small organization of cochlear implant users called CICI and we went to their convention in Fishkill, NY in June/July of 89 just weeks before our daughter's scheduled surgery. We met many more deaf adult users and a few other children who confirmed what our months of phone calls and personal observations had shown us. We met and talked to representatives from Cochlear Corp who we had previously talked to over the phone.

Why is it difficult to believe that we approached the ci surgeon, what are they gods? This was our child, our baby who we were in the midst of deciding whether to undergo surgery, you better damm well believe that my wife approached them and questioned them at length before deciding what to do. Before entrusting our child into their hands. Didn't you do the same?

We had the distinct pleasure of talking at length several times with two of the leading ci surgeons then: Simon Parisier of MEETH and Noel Cohen of NYU. They were patient, understanding, answered all our questions and did not try to influence us one bit. Dr. Cohen, who we twice entrusted our daughter's hearing to, is one of the finest men you will ever meet and an outstanding professional. Why not question the audiologist, he was and still is our daughter's audi and he too answered all our questions and we laugh to this day about his comment that perhaps at best, the cochlear implant would give her some access to sounds.

So yes, we sought out the cochlear implant on our own for that is what we believe responsible parents making a well informed and reasoned decision need to do: seek out the information, talk to adult users, talk to parents of children and talk with the professionals, ask your questions, get your information, evaluate and then decide whether its in your child's best interests, but again I am probably telling you something you did at roughly the same time as us.

Thanks for taking my words out of context, I knew you would be unable to write a post without doing so. I did not say there was no advertising involved, I said it was not a factor: big difference. We are purchasing a car tonight but I could not tell you one of their commercials. Advertising involved yes, a factor no. I guess no apology will be forthcoming from you, well I never expected one from you anyway.

 

[Cloggy]

Parents of deaf children should adapt to their child's circumstances. If you are speaking of an entire population of hearing as the we, of course not. But, and this is the but that qualifies everything, we should not deny to def children that which will enhance their learning experience and success in life based on the fact that it includes something that the general population does not know.

Sure

 

[Cloggy]

99+ % of the world is "oral-only"... It's human nature!

You got that information very, very incorrect, cloggy. Please don't start posting made up statistics again. We had made some progress in keeping these discussions reasonable.

Not to mention the fact that those are totally false statistics and assumptions.

Are they really - or is that your assumption?

How incorrect am I??

 

[Cloggy]

I said 90+%....

I was not accurate enough according to U.S. Census Bureau (See here) it is 99.6%....
U.S. total population over 16: 267,665,000 (100%)
Have difficulty hearing normal conversation 7,966,000 3.8%
Unable to hear normal conversation 832,000 0.4%

I was wrong according to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), they say 96.95%
U.S. total population over 18: 199,617,000 (100%)
"A little trouble" hearing 25,128,000 12.58%
"A lot of trouble [hearing] or deaf" 6,103,000 3.05%

I was not accurate according to Center for Assessment and Demographic Studies Gallaudet University who shows 99.77%
Description - Estimated Numbers - % of population
Deaf, both ears - 421.000 - 0.18
Cannot hear & understand any speech - 552.000 - 0.23
At best, can hear & understand words shouted in the better ear - 1.152.000 - 0.49%

More info...

Statistics
Source: Compiled from fact sheets produced by the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD).
Hearing loss is greater in men.

Almost 12 percent of men who are 65 to 74 years of age are affected by tinnitus. Tinnitus is identified more frequently in white individuals and the prevalence of tinnitus is almost twice as frequent in the South as in the Northeast.

Approximately 28 million Americans have a hearing impairment.

Hearing loss affects approximately 17 in 1,000 children under age 18. Incidence increases with age: Approximately 314 in 1,000 people over age 65 have hearing loss and 40 to 50 percent of people 75 and older have a hearing loss.

About 2 to 3 out of every 1,000 children in the United States are born deaf or hard-of-hearing. 9 out of every 10 children who are born deaf are born to parents who can hear.

Ten million Americans have suffered irreversible noise induced hearing loss, and 30 million more are exposed to dangerous noise levels each day.

Only 1 out of 5 people who could benefit from a hearing aid actually wears one.

Three out of 4 children experience ear infection (otitis media) by the time they are 3 years old.

At least 12 million Americans have tinnitus. Of these, at least 1 million experience it so severely that it interferes with their daily activities.

Approximately 59,000 people worldwide have received cochlear implants. About 250,000 people would be good candidates for a cochlear implant. In the United States, about 13,000 adults and nearly 10,000 children have cochlear implants.

Approximately 4,000 new cases of sudden deafness occur each year in the United States. Hearing loss affects only 1 ear in 9 out of 10 people who experience sudden deafness. Only 10 to 15 percent of patients with sudden deafness know what caused their loss.

Approximately 615,000 individuals have been diagnosed with Ménière's disease in the United States. Another 45,500 are newly diagnosed each year.

Approximately 3 to 6 percent of all deaf children and perhaps another 3 to 6 percent of hard-of-hearing children have Usher syndrome. In developed countries such as the United States, about 4 babies in every 100,000 births have Usher syndrome.

One out of every 100,000 individuals per year develops an acoustic neurinoma (vestibular schwannoma).

More info in the Summary Report of that page..

 

[shel90]

I said 90+%....

I was not accurate enough according to U.S. Census Bureau (See here) it is 99.6%....
U.S. total population over 16: 267,665,000 (100%)
Have difficulty hearing normal conversation 7,966,000 3.8%
Unable to hear normal conversation 832,000 0.4%

I was wrong according to National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS), they say 96.95%
U.S. total population over 18: 199,617,000 (100%)
"A little trouble" hearing 25,128,000 12.58%
"A lot of trouble [hearing] or deaf" 6,103,000 3.05%

I was not accurate according to Center for Assessment and Demographic Studies Gallaudet University who shows 99.77%
Description - Estimated Numbers - % of population
Deaf, both ears - 421.000 - 0.18
Cannot hear & understand any speech - 552.000 - 0.23
At best, can hear & understand words shouted in the better ear - 1.152.000 - 0.49%

More info...

Statistics
Source: Compiled from fact sheets produced by the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD).
Hearing loss is greater in men.

Almost 12 percent of men who are 65 to 74 years of age are affected by tinnitus. Tinnitus is identified more frequently in white individuals and the prevalence of tinnitus is almost twice as frequent in the South as in the Northeast.

Approximately 28 million Americans have a hearing impairment.

Hearing loss affects approximately 17 in 1,000 children under age 18. Incidence increases with age: Approximately 314 in 1,000 people over age 65 have hearing loss and 40 to 50 percent of people 75 and older have a hearing loss.

About 2 to 3 out of every 1,000 children in the United States are born deaf or hard-of-hearing. 9 out of every 10 children who are born deaf are born to parents who can hear.

Ten million Americans have suffered irreversible noise induced hearing loss, and 30 million more are exposed to dangerous noise levels each day.

Only 1 out of 5 people who could benefit from a hearing aid actually wears one.

Three out of 4 children experience ear infection (otitis media) by the time they are 3 years old.

At least 12 million Americans have tinnitus. Of these, at least 1 million experience it so severely that it interferes with their daily activities.

Approximately 59,000 people worldwide have received cochlear implants. About 250,000 people would be good candidates for a cochlear implant. In the United States, about 13,000 adults and nearly 10,000 children have cochlear implants.

Approximately 4,000 new cases of sudden deafness occur each year in the United States. Hearing loss affects only 1 ear in 9 out of 10 people who experience sudden deafness. Only 10 to 15 percent of patients with sudden deafness know what caused their loss.

Approximately 615,000 individuals have been diagnosed with Ménière's disease in the United States. Another 45,500 are newly diagnosed each year.

Approximately 3 to 6 percent of all deaf children and perhaps another 3 to 6 percent of hard-of-hearing children have Usher syndrome. In developed countries such as the United States, about 4 babies in every 100,000 births have Usher syndrome.

One out of every 100,000 individuals per year develops an acoustic neurinoma (vestibular schwannoma).

More info in the Summary Report of that page..

That number of people will hearing loss may grow as the baby boomer generation reaches the golden ages.

 

[Cloggy]

Huh?

 

[Drew's Dad]

I find it difficult to believe that you[Rick48], after observing CI users, approached the surgeon and the audi, and the other professionals concerned. You weren't refered by anyone in the medical field, but sought out the CI option all on your own. And if advertising wasn't involved at all, how is it that you came to be aware of the CI?

You didn't direct this question to me, but thought I'd answer with my experience.

In Drew's case, the only reason we learned about the CI is that we did our own research. Drew did not pass his newborn hearing screening, and we were given a list of places to call to get a diagnostic test done. Nothing in the hospital referenced a CI at all.

After calling about 15 places on that sheet we found that it would take at least 2 months to get the test done. We had searched for hearing loss and deafness on the internet and learned that there was something called a CI. We asked our son's pediatrician about it and he said he thought they helped people hear things like a car horn or loud noises, but didn't know much about them.

We eventually were connected by my uncle to a hospital in St. Louis where we were able to get the ABR done and talk to a CI surgeon.

We never saw any advertisements from CI corporations, and no medical person referred us or suggested to get a CI. We only knew of it from our research.

Maybe that's rare, but in my area most of what we found were people or agencies that did not favor the CI and were heavily suggesting us to go without a CI.