CNN) – Conservative talk-show host Glenn Beck apologized Friday after appearing to mo

Status
Not open for further replies.
jillio said:
Conflict Theory. A well know sociological theory that explains it well and is easilty applied to the concept of those lower income individuals that are told by society they must have certain things to be "successful", but not providing the means to achieve such. Result: rise in crime that you refer to.
Click to expand...


Ah yes....a lack of personal accountability. Another cause of our downfall.
 
jillio said:
Conflict Theory. A well know sociological theory that explains it well and is easilty applied to the concept of those lower income individuals that are told by society they must have certain things to be "successful", but not providing the means to achieve such. Result: rise in crime that you refer to.
Click to expand...
Why should society be responsible for "providing the means to achieve [success]"? I grew up "lower income," and it never occurred to me then or now that society should provide me a means to achieve success, and it never occurred to me that crime was an acceptable means for achieving success. In fact, to me, even as a young person, I thought turning to crime would be a sign of failure, not success.

From where do people get this idea that society should provide them the means to achieve success?
 
Wirelessly posted

I think what's she's referring to is the corporate world, where knowing the right people with the right attitude is more important than your skills or experiences.
 
Man, who'd ever think that people would actually suggest that crime is a path to greater success?
 
Reba said:
Why should society be responsible for "providing the means to achieve [success]"? I grew up "lower income," and it never occurred to me then or now that society should provide me a means to achieve success, and it never occurred to me that crime was an acceptable means for achieving success. In fact, to me, even as a young person, I thought turning to crime would be a sign of failure, not success.

From where do people get this idea that society should provide them the means to achieve success?
Click to expand...

that's not what Conflict Theory is talking about. It's to explain about demise in society on social & political & economic level. It's certainly not talking about "gimmi gimmi gimmi".

In this context - poor people must have certain things in order to climb up the social ladder to elevate one's status. That's why you have an increase in crimes. If we remove a certain social pressure, it will reduce the low-level crime. This actually applies to white collar crimes. example - Bernard Madoff. Adam Wheeler.
 
kokonut said:
Man, who'd ever think that people would actually suggest that crime is a path to greater success?
Click to expand...

about half of Republican Party :lol:

oh hey Abramoff - wassup? how's the food? :lol:
oh hey O'Keefe - wassup? how does it feel to do a good honest community service? :cool2:
 
Jiro said:
that's not what Conflict Theory is talking about. It's to explain about demise in society on social & political & economic level. It's certainly not talking about "gimmi gimmi gimmi".

In this context - poor people must have certain things in order to climb up the social ladder to elevate one's status. That's why you have an increase in crimes. If we remove a certain social pressure, it will reduce the low-level crime. This actually applies to white collar crimes. example - Bernard Madoff. Adam Wheeler.
Click to expand...
It seems that people are still using the "social pressure" excuse for their misbehaving.
 
Reba said:
It seems that people are still using the "social pressure" excuse for their misbehaving.
Click to expand...

it doesn't work like that. that's why it's a very complex issue. Everything is tied together - social, economic, and political.

"oh he's rich and I'm poor. I've gotta steal this watch to look rich." - not that simple.
 
Jiro said:
it doesn't work like that. that's why it's a very complex issue. Everything is tied together - social, economic, and political.

"oh he's rich and I'm poor. I've gotta steal this watch to look rich." - not that simple.
Click to expand...

Actually it is......
 
TXgolfer said:
Actually it is......
Click to expand...

Take a step back and figure out why NYC is safer than other major cities. They did it right. Others didn't.
 
Jiro said:
Take a step back and figure out why NYC is safer than other major cities. They did it right. Others didn't.
Click to expand...

Our answers to that would be quite different I am sure. I study crime as a hobby. Most experts are at a loss for why there has been a nationwide drop for years (no shortage of opinions though).....although it has been larger in New York. Canada's crime has dropped as well. It's especially strange because different areas have employed different tactics.
 
Jiro said:
that's not what Conflict Theory is talking about. It's to explain about demise in society on social & political & economic level. It's certainly not talking about "gimmi gimmi gimmi".

In this context - poor people must have certain things in order to climb up the social ladder to elevate one's status. That's why you have an increase in crimes. If we remove a certain social pressure, it will reduce the low-level crime. This actually applies to white collar crimes. example - Bernard Madoff. Adam Wheeler.
Click to expand...

I thought it was because of the fact that the very people who write and enforce laws are the first ones to break them. And the fact that damn near everything is now illegal. I don't what kind of social pressure you are talking about cause to me its just plain greed, stupidity and low self esteem to think that you need specific things to move up in status.
 
AndyE9503 said:
I thought it was because of the fact that the very people who write and enforce laws are the first ones to break them. And the fact that damn near everything is now illegal. I don't what kind of social pressure you are talking about cause to me its just plain greed, stupidity and low self esteem to think that you need specific things to move up in status.
Click to expand...

Yup personal responsibility and common sense........Some people would rather justify the lack of it though :roll:
 
TXgolfer said:
Our answers to that would be quite different I am sure. I study crime as a hobby. Most experts are at a loss for why there has been a nationwide drop for years (no shortage of opinions though).....although it has been larger in New York. Canada's crime has dropped as well. It's especially strange because different areas have employed different tactics.
Click to expand...

Yes of course - we all have different answers to same problem. But your kind of answer is what failed NYC and many cities for decades. The simplistic approach. The simplistic POV. "You steal, you go to jail." End of Discussion. Period.

NYC took a completely different approach with open mind and they brought in an expert, George L. Kelling, who is both a criminologist and sociologist (also a professor at my college and I may study under him for grad program next year). He approached the problem with solution that actually addressed the complex socioeconomic issues. After 5 years...... the result paid off. After 10 years, the crime rate dropped so low that NYC was actually the #1 safest city. Philadelphia Mayor asked NYC for advice and he listened. Now - Philadelphia has finally transformed itself as a promising growing city. That's why I visited Philly several times for past couple years because it is clean, safe, and beautiful. I avoided Philly like a plague for a long time because it was ghetto as hell. worse than old NYC. I've actually contemplated on living in Philly several months ago. nice apartments there are cheap. Pennsylvania tax is cheap. cost of living is cheap. and... Philly is gun-friendly :D

So you can go ahead and keep on preaching about "personal responsibility" and "common sense" but it's not gonna solve anything. George L. Kelling did it right. Ignoring or disregarding complex socioeconomic theories like Conflict Theory and social stratification when attempting to fix the decades-long problems and ignorantly labeling these theories as Marxism or "gimmi gimmig gimmi"....... well - good luck fixing a crime-infested neighborhood.
 
Jiro said:
Yes of course - we all have different answers to same problem. But your kind of answer is what failed NYC and many cities for decades. The simplistic approach. The simplistic POV. "You steal, you go to jail." End of Discussion. Period.

NYC took a completely different approach with open mind and they brought in an expert, George L. Kelling, who is both a criminologist and sociologist (also a professor at my college and I may study under him for grad program next year). He approached the problem with solution that actually addressed the complex socioeconomic issues. After 5 years...... the result paid off. After 10 years, the crime rate dropped so low that NYC was actually the #1 safest city. Philadelphia Mayor asked NYC for advice and he listened. Now - Philadelphia has finally transformed itself as a promising growing city. That's why I visited Philly several times for past couple years because it is clean, safe, and beautiful. I avoided Philly like a plague for a long time because it was ghetto as hell. worse than old NYC. I've actually contemplated on living in Philly several months ago. nice apartments there are cheap. Pennsylvania tax is cheap. cost of living is cheap. and... Philly is gun-friendly :D

So you can go ahead and keep on preaching about "personal responsibility" and "common sense" but it's not gonna solve anything. George L. Kelling did it right. Ignoring or disregarding complex socioeconomic theories like Conflict Theory and social stratification when attempting to fix the decades-long problems and ignorantly labeling these theories as Marxism or "gimmi gimmig gimmi"....... well - good luck fixing a crime-infested neighborhood.
Click to expand...

I just looked up Conflict Theory. I'm sorry but it is Marxist. No way around that
 
AndyE9503 said:
I just looked up Conflict Theory. I'm sorry but it is Marxist. No way around that
Click to expand...

could you please elaborate more on that? why do you think Conflict Theory is Marxist?
 
Jiro said:
could you please elaborate more on that? why do you think Conflict Theory is Marxist?
Click to expand...

Well first off its based off of Marx and from what I am reading it says that Capitalism is the root of all social problems. Thta sounds like Marxism to me. But feel free to give me a link if I am looking up the wrong info cause this is the first time I have heard of this. I googled Conflict Theory and got a mix of that and Social Conflict Theory but they both look the same.
 
AndyE9503 said:
Well first off its based off of Marx and from what I am reading it says that Capitalism is the root of all social problems. Thta sounds like Marxism to me. But feel free to give me a link if I am looking up the wrong info cause this is the first time I have heard of this. I googled Conflict Theory and got a mix of that and Social Conflict Theory but they both look the same.
Click to expand...

Bottom Line - Conflict Theory is about how inequality in society brings about conflict and change. For economic perspective - it's about how the rich and powerful control the weak and poor.... the competition for scarce resources - oil, food, water, anything.

Marxism is about what's good for us (hence everybody gets equal share) and all these wonderful propaganda. Conflict Theory is not focused on that part. For America - C.T. is mainly about how the capitalists control the masses.

I'll give you some examples of Conflict Theory. Apple. Microsoft. Oil Companies. Food Industry.

What I just told you is barely a scratch on the surface. It's mind-boggling and very complex. It expanded to many other theories like Racial Theory, Elite Theory, etc. etc. etc. That's why there is a professional field of study dedicated to this called... Sociology. My school is one of the leading universities in that field plus psychology and anthropology. In fact - our professor is the reason why NYC and Philadelphia made a major transformation.
 
Jiro said:
Yes of course - we all have different answers to same problem. But your kind of answer is what failed NYC and many cities for decades. The simplistic approach. The simplistic POV. "You steal, you go to jail." End of Discussion. Period.

NYC took a completely different approach with open mind and they brought in an expert, George L. Kelling, who is both a criminologist and sociologist (also a professor at my college and I may study under him for grad program next year). He approached the problem with solution that actually addressed the complex socioeconomic issues. After 5 years...... the result paid off. After 10 years, the crime rate dropped so low that NYC was actually the #1 safest city. Philadelphia Mayor asked NYC for advice and he listened. Now - Philadelphia has finally transformed itself as a promising growing city. That's why I visited Philly several times for past couple years because it is clean, safe, and beautiful. I avoided Philly like a plague for a long time because it was ghetto as hell. worse than old NYC. I've actually contemplated on living in Philly several months ago. nice apartments there are cheap. Pennsylvania tax is cheap. cost of living is cheap. and... Philly is gun-friendly :D

So you can go ahead and keep on preaching about "personal responsibility" and "common sense" but it's not gonna solve anything. George L. Kelling did it right. Ignoring or disregarding complex socioeconomic theories like Conflict Theory and social stratification when attempting to fix the decades-long problems and ignorantly labeling these theories as Marxism or "gimmi gimmig gimmi"....... well - good luck fixing a crime-infested neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Many experts have other theories for the drop in the NYC crime rate......you are entitled to your opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top