CI on 6 year old.

shel90 said:
I asked the director of the CI program for permission to share what I learned at the meeting. She said that is fine as long as I dont use names here. Well, a committee went to different programs and found a CI program at a public school that uses the BiBi approach..sign language and spoken language. All of their students (about 20 or so) are reading and writing above their grade level. The committe has visited programs that used oral only and found that there was a variety of success with the children..some are reading and writing above grade level but most are delayed. The committe has determined that a combination of signing and the CI really makes the difference. The committee has seen improvement in speech skills from the children with the CIs over children with no CIs but reading and writing levels, no difference. Just found that interesting.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that ancedotal observation. It's interesting that for that group, the combination of the CI and the signing has made a difference for them - I can see how both would work really well. I think that perhaps if there was less public opposition in opposing CIs in children and developed more positive arguments for why CI children could benefit from both that more hearing parents might be open to a BiBi approach.

There doesn't seem to be many controlled studies though on the effectiveness of the BiBi approach - would that be because there aren't many schools that practice it?
 
I wonder if The River School were among those schools.

Model Becomes Reality

A longitudinal study which began in January 2000 at the The River School is underway to document the progress of children who are deaf as they achieve language and literacy milestones. The River School looks forward to continuing to tailor educational practice to keep pace with advancing technology.
Click to expand...
 
SJCSue said:
It is interesting! :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing that, shel. So the issue remains--are we more interested in improving the literacy rates of our deaf students, and thus preparing them to enter life as adults and find success--or are we more interested in improving their speech? I think I can guess where you and I stand.:giggle:
 
R2D2 said:
Thanks for sharing that ancedotal observation. It's interesting that for that group, the combination of the CI and the signing has made a difference for them - I can see how both would work really well. I think that perhaps if there was less public opposition in opposing CIs in children and developed more positive arguments for why CI children could benefit from both that more hearing parents might be open to a BiBi approach.

There doesn't seem to be many controlled studies though on the effectiveness of the BiBi approach - would that be because there aren't many schools that practice it?
Click to expand...

Yes, that's the reason that there aren't many controlled studies--the bi-bi approach is relatively new, and for this type of research they really need to do longitudinal research after obtaining a baseline,a nd then following those children for an extended period of time, and there aren't many schools that use it.
 
jillio said:
Thanks for sharing that, shel. So the issue remains--are we more interested in improving the literacy rates of our deaf students, and thus preparing them to enter life as adults and find success--or are we more interested in improving their speech? I think I can guess where you and I stand.:giggle:
Click to expand...

U know that I dont give a damn about speech skills as much I do about literacy skills. LOL! What good did speech skills did for me? Yes, it is nice to have but it is not the only way to define oneself. My life was always about my speech skills..who CARES? What about my knowledge, my abilities, and personality?
 
Cloggy said:
Same here...
Would love to hear more about those children..
Click to expand...

Yea, same here but the committe cant reveal their names or info due to confidentiality..oh well. I have seen a huge difference in the students with CIs that got referred to our schools from the public school systems. Their confidence has just grown so much and they are showing who they are and their knowledge. I am happy for them..cuz that is more important to me than having good speech and listening skills. Just my view..doesnt mean everyone has the same views.
 
jillio said:
Yes, that's the reason that there aren't many controlled studies--the bi-bi approach is relatively new, and for this type of research they really need to do longitudinal research after obtaining a baseline,a nd then following those children for an extended period of time, and there aren't many schools that use it.
Click to expand...

Yes. I'd certainly agree that such studies would be highly desirable.
 
shel90 said:
U know that I dont give a damn about speech skills as much I do about literacy skills. LOL! What good did speech skills did for me? Yes, it is nice to have but it is not the only way to define oneself. My life was always about my speech skills..who CARES? What about my knowledge, my abilities, and personality?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I would agree with the lack of importance that you seem to attribute to speech skills. I'm personally really glad that I have them. Sometimes when we are doing the most boring things using speech skills e.g getting a cheque at the bank, we can forget how useful it is to be able to speak the language of the majority when needed.

I also don't think there are many people who have good speech skills but poor literacy at the same time.

However, I would agree with you that sometimes a too great emphasis on speech skills for some children can be at the detriment of developing literacy.
 
R2D2 said:
I'm not sure if I would agree with the lack of importance that you seem to attribute to speech skills. I'm personally really glad that I have them. Sometimes when we are doing the most boring things using speech skills e.g getting a cheque at the bank, we can forget how useful it is to be able to speak the language of the majority when needed.

I also don't think there are many people who have good speech skills but poor literacy at the same time.

However, I would agree with you that sometimes a too great emphasis on speech skills for some children can be at the detriment of developing literacy.
Click to expand...

It is a great skill to have but not worth all the focus it gets sometimes..that's what I meant. It just seems like there is so much empasis on it that other things seem to get forgotten or ignored..I am speaking in real life not about here on AD.
 
shel90 said:
Yea, same here but the committe cant reveal their names or info due to confidentiality..oh well. I have seen a huge difference in the students with CIs that got referred to our schools from the public school systems. Their confidence has just grown so much and they are showing who they are and their knowledge. I am happy for them..cuz that is more important to me than having good speech and listening skills. Just my view..doesnt mean everyone has the same views.
Click to expand...

I think it's also important to note that the quality of programs will vary, depending on where you live. It's not as simple as a parent deciding what philosophy they are going to follow and then sending their kids to the nearest program that claims to follow that philosophy. Some TC programs are poor, some are good, some oral programs are good, some are poor. Some approaches may not even be available where you live.

A parent will have to investigate what choices they have, what means they have to pursue those choices (e.g. moving house to get nearer to a program) and so on. That's why the best decision for a particular child is an extremely personal one and depends on a lot of factors that may or may not be true for others.
 
R2D2 said:
I think it's also important to note that the quality of programs will vary, depending on where you live. It's not as simple as a parent deciding what philosophy they are going to follow and then sending their kids to the nearest program that claims to follow that philosophy. Some TC programs are poor, some are good, some oral programs are good, some are poor. Some approaches may not even be available where you live.

A parent will have to investigate what choices they have, what means they have to pursue those choices (e.g. moving house to get nearer to a program) and so on. That's why the best decision for a particular child is an extremely personal one and depends on a lot of factors that may or may not be true for others.
Click to expand...

Right..I was just speaking from my personal experience..doesnt mean I am applying it to all programs. Iam just showing how grateful we have this program and our school. I cant imagine if deaf schools or the BiBi approach didnt exist because those children would have drowned big time not only academically but phychologically.
 
R2D2 said:
I also don't think there are many people who have good speech skills but poor literacy at the same time.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. I personally know quite a few HOH people with excellent speech skills and poor literacy as well. I remember my roommate Gina from my MSSD days who had excellent speech and she had much better understanding of speech than I did. It took me quite a while to realize she actually had a second grade reading level.

I also know people with normal hearing who are nearly illiterate. I'm a bit leery of using the P & P tactic with some clerks at some gas stations or fast food places as some of them can't read or write and they aren't always foreigners either.
 
deafskeptic said:
I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. I personally know quite a few HOH people with excellent speech skills and poor literacy as well. I remember my roommate Gina from my MSSD days who had excellent speech and she had much better understanding of speech than I did. It took me quite a while to realize she actually had a second grade reading level.

I also know people with normal hearing who are nearly illiterate. I'm a bit leery of using the P & P tactic with some clerks at some gas stations or fast food places as some of them can't read or write and they aren't always foreigners either.
Click to expand...

Good point - I'd forgotten about normal hearing people who are illiterate.

In the case of illiterate deaf people with good speech skills I'm not sure though that it's correlated specifically to the fact that they were raised orally (I'm assuming they were). I'd say it was more about the quality of their education program whether oral or not. In a well managed program, someone who is able to acquire good speech skills should be able to develop good literacy as well, since its the same language.
 
shel90 said:
It is a great skill to have but not worth all the focus it gets sometimes..that's what I meant. It just seems like there is so much empasis on it that other things seem to get forgotten or ignored..I am speaking in real life not about here on AD.
Click to expand...

I get you. I think that the whole range of skills deserve equal attention, not at the expense of one or the other.
 
R2D2 said:
I'm not sure if I would agree with the lack of importance that you seem to attribute to speech skills. I'm personally really glad that I have them. Sometimes when we are doing the most boring things using speech skills e.g getting a cheque at the bank, we can forget how useful it is to be able to speak the language of the majority when needed.

I also don't think there are many people who have good speech skills but poor literacy at the same time.

However, I would agree with you that sometimes a too great emphasis on speech skills for some children can be at the detriment of developing literacy.
Click to expand...

If I may, I think that shel and I are on the same page this time. We have both seen too many kids that are considered oral successes, but in order to develop those skills, true education in the form of literacy has been sacrificed. This is where the internalization process of language is concerned, as I discussed in another thread. These kids may have a command of spoken English, but are unable to use spoken English, or written English.
 
jillio said:
If I may, I think that shel and I are on the same page this time. We have both seen too many kids that are considered oral successes, but in order to develop those skills, true education in the form of literacy has been sacrificed. This is where the internalization process of language is concerned, as I discussed in another thread. These kids may have a command of spoken English, but are unable to use spoken English, or written English.
Click to expand...

Why is it that so many deaf signers and (pretty good ones at that) have literacy problems as well? My nephew reads very well and loves reading, but he struggles with his expressive written grammar, even though he comes from an educated family and my sister is coaching him in her own time. He is considered to be one of the better students at his school.

I'm not arguing either way for or against oralism (I don't think it's right for everyone and I certainly see the advantage of early signing to help with language concepts) however I wonder if the nature of the beast is deafness itself?

I imagine that you would say that most deaf signers need the BiBi approach to develop their literacy further? What is different with the BiBi way of teaching literacy and the average school for the deaf with a signing approach?
 
R2D2 said:
Why is it that so many deaf signers and (pretty good ones at that) have literacy problems as well? My nephew reads very well and loves reading, but he struggles with his expressive written grammar, even though he comes from an educated family and my sister is coaching him in her own time. He is considered to be one of the better students at his school.

I'm not arguing either way for or against oralism (I don't think it's right for everyone and I certainly see the advantage of early signing to help with language concepts) however I wonder if the nature of the beast is deafness itself?

I imagine that you would say that most deaf signers need the BiBi approach to develop their literacy further? What is different with the BiBi way of teaching literacy and the average school for the deaf with a signing approach?
Click to expand...

I think Jillio hit it on the head with the internalization process of language bit. That is a very valid point. I developed a passion for reading from five or so on. I used it, if you will, as a surrogate for spoken language to get the tone and tenor of expressive speech while learning spoken language. Basically, I did it in reverse to build up my spoken language abilities. To be clearer on the benefits/consequences of going this route, I was reading college level in 8th or 9th grade and it took me until I was in my early twenties for my speech to catch up especially with the colloquialisms and cultural knowledge of spoken language.
 
Back
Top