CI on 6 year old.

[deafskeptic]

Thanks for the input, Rick 48.

I quite agree with all 3 of the factors regarding kids with implants.

 

[deafskeptic]

I dont know what is happening out there...My aide is a late CI user..she got hers 5 years ago at the age of 30 and does well with it..and I have some students who got CIs when they were babies and dont benefit from them and some who do. It is weird how deafness works. BTW..that boy who had emergency surgery got his new implant activated ..the parents told us that he didnt want it at all and had a fit cuz the new CI was too loud for him but he wore it today like he did before. Everyone is different.

Sounds like the boy needs to get a new map. I remember my last map well because when my audi clapped her hands and said the CH sound, it drove me crazy. The sounds weren't loud but it was akin to hearing fingernails on the blackboard. She had to readjust some stuff so it wouldn't drive me crazy.

 

[R2D2]

My school is starting to get the children who do benefit from their CIs due to our new CI program. Many of the parents like the idea of their children having both instead of oral only. Our school is not there solely for the purpose as dumping grounds but unfortunately most of the students were referred from the mainstreamed programs. We are starting to see an explosion of middle school aged kids with CIs being referred to our school. Matter of fact, we had to hire 2 more teachers for middle school due to the growth. That was a very new thing for the school to experience.

Interesting commentary and interesting that there are parents who are attracted to a billingual education even though their children benefit from CIs. Maybe also the larger numbers of children being referred to the school is reflective of the greater numbers of deaf children getting CIs generally?

Hopefully you are no longer worried about losing your job now!

 

[Cole's mom]

That's probably because the particular TC program is used as a dump for the children of parents who can't be bothered either way in either learning to sign or in maintaining the wearing of their CI. This means that the children wouldn't get any language at all. I just cannot fathom how any parents would not want to get some form of language into their child.

I don't think that it is because it is a dumping ground in this case, I think that they just have a small population area to grab from. What I was told when I expressed concern that Cole would have lowered expectations because of the catch up that other kids would have is that each year is different and some years you get very involved parents and other years, not so much. So, we are looking at other school options in other cities and considering a drive if necessary. I must admit, the teacher was very excited to see an involved mom who is making a lot of effort in the early years of his life, and that told me a lot about some of the stuff that she has seen. Another thing that our district deals with a lot is spanish speaking at home, english in school and adding hearing loss on top of that, and these kids are bound to have challenges.

 

[R2D2]

Sounds like the boy needs to get a new map. I remember my last map well because when my audi clapped her hands and said the CH sound, it drove me crazy. The sounds weren't loud but it was akin to hearing fingernails on the blackboard. She had to readjust some stuff so it wouldn't drive me crazy.

Also, presumably while the boy was waiting for his new implant, he was completely deaf and so his brain would have got used to the silence to some extent. So, reintroducing even the previous map that he had before would be a wake up call to his brain.

That's why we have so many mappings when we are first activated, because it takes a while to build up our tolerance for loud sounds. I especially took it slow because I had recruitment issues before my CI, which meant I got dreadful tinntitus every time I heard a loud sound!

 

[R2D2]

I don't think that it is because it is a dumping ground in this case, I think that they just have a small population area to grab from. What I was told when I expressed concern that Cole would have lowered expectations because of the catch up that other kids would have is that each year is different and some years you get very involved parents and other years, not so much. So, we are looking at other school options in other cities and considering a drive if necessary. I must admit, the teacher was very excited to see an involved mom who is making a lot of effort in the early years of his life, and that told me a lot about some of the stuff that she has seen. Another thing that our district deals with a lot is spanish speaking at home, english in school and adding hearing loss on top of that, and these kids are bound to have challenges.

Fair enough. It sounds like from the teacher's reaction that involved parents are far and few in between Good luck and I hope you are able to find a more suitable school for Cole where he can be challenged academically.

 

[Cloggy]

Just out of curiousity, are you providing non bias information like cue speech, ASL, total communication, and any other source too along with CI?

What's "non-bias" about cue speech, ASL, total communication ???? How is speaking/hearing biased ??

 

[Cloggy]

Interesting commentary and interesting that there are parents who are attracted to a billingual education even though their children benefit from CIs. Maybe also the larger numbers of children being referred to the school is reflective of the greater numbers of deaf children getting CIs generally?

Hopefully you are no longer worried about losing your job now!

One explanation could be that when the child masters speech and listning, there is room to learn an additional language.
With Lotte, we continued sign until she chose herself to use speach first. We didn't continue with sign because she allready has to learn 2 languages. But at some stage, when she's got no problems with speech, and she wants it as well, we can imagine that she will continue with sign.

BUt again, when choosing CI, one chooses for a road where speech and listning will be the mode of communication. And even though it is no problem for children to learn two or more languages at the same time, for a child that is 2-3 years behind on hearing anything, concentrating on sound is the natural thing to do...

Allways keeping in mind that communication is the most important. As long as speech and hearing are not established, communication should be done with other systems, and with us, sign was perfect...

 

[rick48]

I can honestly say you don't know the real facts. I've known Cloggy for several years and there have been several 'witch-hunts' to try to get him banned and even going as far as making up fake emails to try to make him look like he lies - but its just that - a witch hunt. SxyPorkie keeps saying he lied to her because he doesn't teach Lotte sign language, when all you have to do is go to his blog and you will see posts AND pictures of Lotte signing.

Unfortunately Cloggy tells it like it is - and it seems there are certain groups that simply do NOT want to hear (no pun intended) what he has to say, and would prefer to keep their heads stuck in the sand. Cloggy (and other CI -parents) neither troll nor lie - they work their hardest at trying to get people who have misunderstanding, misconceptions, or believe in the MYTHS to understand the real story. He uses his daughter as a wonderful example of the possibilities of CI - unfortunately (again) his positive experiences are CONSTANTLY ignored or disregarded as "atypical" simply because they are positive. You can't blame him for feeling frustrated - how would you like it if every single thing you said that was good in your life was attacked piece by piece simply because somebody couldn't stand thinking that you could be happy?

neecy,

Agree 100% so its +100 then !
Rick

 

[shel90]

Fair enough. It sounds like from the teacher's reaction that involved parents are far and few in between Good luck and I hope you are able to find a more suitable school for Cole where he can be challenged academically.

I agree about involved parents are far and few in between. It is unfortunate because it really hurts the children socially and linquistically and increases the chances for failure later on in life. I have met so many deaf adults who went thru that and they are collecting SSDI or working low wages jobs and most of them seem depressed and frustrated about their lives. I know as an adults, they can take action and improve but I think they are just so down and cant find their way up. It is sad.

 

[jillio]

To some degree, Jillio and Shel's observations are from the section of CI children who have been selected as needing extra communication and education support in the first place. And these would be for a variety of reasons that we cannot know, since we do not have all their personal information. If I understand correctly, Shel's school gets the students who haven't done well in the public school system, implying that those who are doing okay are kept there.

When you are only exposed to a particular section of a population, then it can affect how you perceive the whole group generally. Rick for example says that in his experience, the CI children he has come across are doing very well. Again, it's another section of the CI population. There are not many people on this board who have been exposed to the whole range of children who were implanted at an early age.

There is validity to your statement. However, at the college level, I am including all students registered with Institutional Equity for any level of hearing loss, and includes those that are sign based, use HA, use FM systems, and have CI. Virtually all of our CI students at the college level in my school use terps, notetakers, and have audio converted to print. And since this is the colege level, they request those services. Because these students are considered adults, we simply let them know what we have available, what their legal rights are, and provide only those services they request. And, all but one of these students has come from a mainstream educational environment. So I'd sayt hat the sample is fairly representative of the population at large.

 

[jillio]

deafskeptic,

If you do not mind me stepping in, I have met hundreds of ci kids and there are many variables but three which are extremely important:

1. Length of time between onset of deafness and implantation. Obviously, the shorter that time period the better.

2. Post-operation speech and language therapy. Again, if you provide oral speech and language therapy combined with an oral home environment, it usually leads to better results.

3. Parental involvement. Need I say any more?

If you can combine those three variables in their most positive form, then the results for children, as Lotte evidences, are the development of oral language as the primary mode of communication. These kids are not "atypical", they are the norm. As you stray further from those variables, the less likely will be those results.

Again, as there are no guarantees, parents should closely monitor their child's development and always be willing to utilize different communication methods. In short, nothing should be set in concrete.

Those variable would apply not only to CI implanted deaf, but to HA using deaf, and unaided deaf, as well.

 

[jillio]

That's probably because the particular TC program is used as a dump for the children of parents who can't be bothered either way in either learning to sign or in maintaining the wearing of their CI. This means that the children wouldn't get any language at all. I just cannot fathom how any parents would not want to get some form of language into their child.

It doesn't necessarily mean that all TC programs are bad per se. Perhaps you could voice your concerns to the teachers there and they might have some ideas. Are there any others around that are teaching children more at Cole's language level?

It is unfortunate that TC in philosophy, and TC in practice are two very different things. The risk with TC, particularly when the attempt to implement is through the use of hearing teachers only, is that rather than enriching the linguistic environment with two models of fluent language (sign and English), the child receives non fluent models of both, thus furthering impoverishing the linguistic environment. Sign becomes PSE rather than ASL, and English grammar is modified to the degree that it does not provide a good model. Not all programs are that way, but it is a definante risk. I for one would be suspicious of a TC program that did not employ fluent signers.

 

[jillio]

Interesting commentary and interesting that there are parents who are attracted to a billingual education even though their children benefit from CIs. Maybe also the larger numbers of children being referred to the school is reflective of the greater numbers of deaf children getting CIs generally?

Hopefully you are no longer worried about losing your job now!

We can only hope that the move is toward a bi-bi education.

 

[R2D2]

It is unfortunate that TC in philosophy, and TC in practice are two very different things. The risk with TC, particularly when the attempt to implement is through the use of hearing teachers only, is that rather than enriching the linguistic environment with two models of fluent language (sign and English), the child receives non fluent models of both, thus furthering impoverishing the linguistic environment. Sign becomes PSE rather than ASL, and English grammar is modified to the degree that it does not provide a good model. Not all programs are that way, but it is a definante risk. I for one would be suspicious of a TC program that did not employ fluent signers.

So are you saying that you would prefer a TC program that say employed 100% fluent signing for some subjects and 100% spoken English for others? A bit like how I've heard they do bilingual education in Canada? This would make a lot more sense wouldn't it? They are both different languages and should be treated as such rather than modified to fit each other.

 

[shel90]

So are you saying that you would prefer a TC program that say employed 100% fluent signing for some subjects and 100% spoken English for others? A bit like how I've heard they do bilingual education in Canada? This would make a lot more sense wouldn't it? They are both different languages and should be treated as such rather than modified to fit each other.

100% fluent signing and 100% spoken English separately is considered a BiBi program in which my school offers. The TC programs that I have seen usually uses signing and spoken English at the same time.

Also I noticed that most oral and TC programs do not employ deaf or HOH people...where are the role models for these kids? Know what I mean?

 

[R2D2]

100% fluent signing and 100% spoken English separately is considered a BiBi program in which my school offers. The TC programs that I have seen usually uses signing and spoken English at the same time.

Also I noticed that most oral and TC programs do not employ deaf or HOH people...where are the role models for these kids? Know what I mean?

The BiBi program makes much more sense to me - thanks for explaining it. So it's not very common? I've observed people using TC with signing and speaking simultaneously and I always wondered how it was possible for anyone to follow it. I would find it very distracting and slow compared to sign alone or speech alone.

I had a deaf peri teacher when I was growing up in the oral program and there was another deaf woman teacher also in the service who was very smart. I also have a deaf friend with two CIs who teaches deaf children, both speech and sign. I guess I happened to be fortunate - I agree about the need for role models whether sign or oral.

I'll have to ask my friend about this BiBi stuff, she is a real advocate of signing to the baby from the word go before they get their CIs so as to get concepts of language started.

 

[jillio]

So are you saying that you would prefer a TC program that say employed 100% fluent signing for some subjects and 100% spoken English for others? A bit like how I've heard they do bilingual education in Canada? This would make a lot more sense wouldn't it? They are both different languages and should be treated as such rather than modified to fit each other.

Absolutely!

 

[jillio]

100% fluent signing and 100% spoken English separately is considered a BiBi program in which my school offers. The TC programs that I have seen usually uses signing and spoken English at the same time.

Also I noticed that most oral and TC programs do not employ deaf or HOH people...where are the role models for these kids? Know what I mean?

Exactly! And the kids end up getting poor models of both languages, as the hearing signer attempt to match their signing to their English. As cumbersome as this is, they generally get poor models of both sign grammar and English grammar, and end up being more linguistically confused. Bi-Bi is the way to go!

 

[jillio]

The BiBi program makes much more sense to me - thanks for explaining it. So it's not very common? I've observed people using TC with signing and speaking simultaneously and I always wondered how it was possible for anyone to follow it. I would find it very distracting and slow compared to sign alone or speech alone.

I had a deaf peri teacher when I was growing up in the oral program and there was another deaf woman teacher also in the service who was very smart. I also have a deaf friend with two CIs who teaches deaf children, both speech and sign. I guess I happened to be fortunate - I agree about the need for role models whether sign or oral.

I'll have to ask my friend about this BiBi stuff, she is a real advocate of signing to the baby from the word go before they get their CIs so as to get concepts of language started.

Please do investigate. It makes more sense linguistically, educationalyy, and developmentally. TC evolved out of the Combined method of using speech and sign simultaneously. The combined method was proposed as a sloution to the oral method that was lowering literacy rates and having negative consequences on the education of profoundly deaf children who experienced difficulty with spoken language. They just keep reinventing the wheel it seems.