Childs behavior

[faire_jour]

No different from any hearing person with an accent. Goodness me, if you think that you need to speak without an accent to have fluent spoken language then that narrows it down to a very elite 'supremacy' group.

There is a difference between having an accent and being unintelligible.

 

[BecLak]

Do you just not believe that someone can have good language skills and poor speech, or poor language and good speech?

To expect perfection in oral speech from a Deaf person or child is a very audist attitude.

 

[Bottesini]

No different from any hearing person with an accent. Goodness me, if you think that you need to speak without an accent to have fluent spoken language then that narrows it down to a very elite 'supremacy' group.

There is a difference between having an accent and being unintelligible.

You know I am fluent in English. But family are who understand my speech for the most part. I have problems in articulation.

Partly this is due to paralysis in the facial nerve, and partly due to not being able to hear myself.

This isn't that uncommon.

It has nothing to do with an accent.

 

[faire_jour]

To expect perfection in oral speech from a Deaf person or child is a very audist attitude.

No one is saying that. We are saying that somone can have excellent speech oral skills) but poor language OR someone can have very poor speech (oral skills) and good spoken language. They would have good language, it just wouldn't "sound good".

 

[Bottesini]

To expect perfection in oral speech from a Deaf person or child is a very audist attitude.

Oh crap! And I never swear. THere is nothing wrong with striving for good speech.

It is helpful in a lot of situations if you can do it.

 

[faire_jour]

You know I am fluent in English. But family are who understand my speech for the most part. I have problems in articulation.

Partly this is due to paralysis in the facial nerve, and partly due to not being able to hear myself.

This isn't that uncommon.

It has nothing to do with an accent.

That would be an example of what Grendel and I are saying. Someone can have excellent language, including spoken language and not have "great oral skills". The very opposite can be true too.

 

[BecLak]

There is a difference between having an accent and being unintelligible.

Coming from a multi-cultural environment I would suggest that perhaps there needs to be some give and take, some understanding and effort given from the other person to whom the deaf person is speaking to. Like I said, if you expect perfection in oral speech from a deaf person, it is a very audist 'supremacy' attitude. Doesn't go down well in this global society today.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yea, fluent in English but to speak it? It seems like you consider English in the written form and in the spoken form as a separate language?

If someone has poor oral skills, how can they speak English in the spoken form? Yes, they can be fluent in it but to use it in the spoken form? That doesnt make sense to me but then again, what do I know since i cant hear people who speak poor and intelligeble English?

Very good question. The two go hand in hand. Developing poor oral skills will likely result in poor spoken English.

Developing good oral skills will likely result in good spoken English. You and I are perfect examples of that. So are countless others.

 

[faire_jour]

To expect perfection in oral speech from a Deaf person or child is a very audist attitude.

It would be audist if someone believed that better speech made them smarter or a better person, but not just valuing spoken language.

 

[faire_jour]

Very good question. The two go hand in hand. Developing poor oral skills will likely result in poor spoken English.

Developing good oral skills will likely result in good spoken English. You and I are perfect examples of that. So are countless others.

But just because the words sound good (oral skills) does not make someone have good language. And again, you can be unintelligible but have great language.

 

[BecLak]

Oh crap! And I never swear. THere is nothing wrong with striving for good speech.

It is helpful in a lot of situations if you can do it.

Botts, I never said that striving for good speech was wrong. I just said that hearing people should not expect perfection or in other words demand perfection. There should be understanding and give and take from their side also.

From what you have shared, I can understand your predicament, that is all the more reason I am saying what I am saying. Please don't swear at me.

Not being able to articulate perfectly for whatever reason, whether hearing or deaf creates an 'accent'. The fact of the matter is that to be verbal at all in these circumstances should be acceptable. There should be no discrimination. In your case, it is not a matter of poor 'oral skills'. It is not the skills at fault here.

 

[BecLak]

But just because the words sound good (oral skills) does not make someone have good language. And again, you can be unintelligible but have great language.

Let me clarify: Oral skills = spoken language.

Oral skills is the ability to know how to speak.[/B] = spoken language. Perfect articulation has nothing to doing with fluency in language.

Thus, as in Botts case, it has nothing to do with 'oral skills' but that her ability to articulate is affected. She would be still fluent in spoken language with an 'accent'.

 

[faire_jour]

Let me clarify: Oral skills = spoken language.

Oral skills is the ability to know how to speak.[/B] = spoken language. Perfect articulation has nothing to doing with fluency in language.

Thus, as in Botts case, it has nothing to do with 'oral skills' but that her ability to articulate is affected. She would be still fluent in spoken language with an 'accent'.

Oral skills is the ability to make sounds with your mouth. It has nothing to do with knowing any language.

Oral | Define Oral at Dictionary.com
Skill | Define Skill at Dictionary.com

What do you call someone who can speak well but has terrible language?

 

[BecLak]

Oral skills is the ability to make sounds with your mouth. It has nothing to do with knowing any language.

Oral | Define Oral at Dictionary.com
Skill | Define Skill at Dictionary.com

What do you call someone who can speak well but has terrible language?

Come on, as if I don't know the definition of Oral and Skill!

Oral = knowledge of phonetics - spoken.
Skill = ability, coming from one's knowledge.

Articulation is not knowledge. Ariticulation is perfecting the formation of speech not the knowledge of language.

You cannot expect perfect articulation. That is an unreasonable expectation.

What do I call someone who can speak well but has terrible language is someone who has good articulation but knows words only by rote or memory. This is not the acquistion of language.

 

[GrendelQ]

To expect perfection in oral speech from a Deaf person or child is a very audist attitude.

Exactly Beclak -- you are coming around! Good oral skills are NOT required to be fluent in a language, not even in a spoken language.

 

[GrendelQ]

Come on, as if I don't know the definition of Oral and Skill!

Oral = knowledge of phonetics - spoken.
Skill = ability, coming from one's knowledge.

Articulation is not knowledge. Ariticulation is perfecting the formation of speech not the knowledge of language.

You cannot expect perfect articulation. That is an unreasonable expectation.

What do I call someone who can speak well but has terrible language is someone who has good articulation but knows words only by rote or memory. This is not the acquistion of language.

Yes! HUGE difference in developing oral skills (articulation, ability to forms words verbally) and acquiring a spoken language.

 

[Hohtopics]

yeah... she should have been born hearing. *roll eyes*

Well according to Beclak's logic, she pretty much has the main idea on what to expect from children with cochlear implants based on her own experience of growing up not having any auditory input for 30+ years?

 

[Hohtopics]

I totally agree, Jillio. It would have been much easier for me if I had access to sign language when I was young. I have had to rely on reading as my visual language.

Or it would have been easier if you had wore your HA's more often other than just wearing it, if I understand it correctly, in just 4 years of your life?

 

[AlleyCat]

Come on, as if I don't know the definition of Oral and Skill!

Oral = knowledge of phonetics - spoken.
Skill = ability, coming from one's knowledge.

Right. But it seems silly to think our teachers would teach us how to articulate, and then do nothing with it afterwards. Why teach us how to say "horse" if we don't learn how to apply it in the English language? That would be like a kindergartener being taught how to write the alphabet on dotted-lined paper and then not taught words and English fluency.

You cannot expect perfect articulation.

Why not?

 

[deafgal001]

Or it would have been easier if you had wore your HA's more often other than just wearing it, if I understand it correctly, in just 4 years of your life?

Can you tell me why you got CI instead of HAs?

Because I don't know why you are blaming her about not wearing long enough when you don't understand everything with it either.

Beside, It is not easy for parents to face the fact that their child may have a hearing loss. If we can just help them realize that being deaf is not a bad thing, maybe they will be more open toward it.