Child crying while CI being activated...

[drphil]

As a person who actually has been Implanted July 12, 2007-I was not in any pain when activated. My head healed with in the 4 weeks period. The boy of course wouldn't understand why he has been implanted in the first place.-thus his reaction by crying,
I even resumed swimming within 2 weeks of the operation with the Doctor's permission. I was restricted in any weight lifting for a couple of months.

 

[CSign]

Maybe because she is simply choosing NOT to get one for him. Evaluation or not.

Last I read, Frankiesmom didn't know if her son was a candidate for the CI- just that some random people had asked her if she was going to implant him.

If he's not a candidate, it's a moot point. All she has to say to anyone is, "no he's not eligible for it (if that's the case), and if he was I wouldn't implant him". End of story- that will shut them up. Maybe even explain at that point (if they're truly interested in the information) the reasons why she wouldn't implant.

Depending on how you look at it, it can be an opportunity to educate others who otherwise would have never known.

 

[posts from hell]

Sigh.... Csign.. I've things to tell you but.. I'll just say this: You still have a bit to learn...

 

[Sunshine]

Last I read, Frankiesmom didn't know if her son was a candidate for the CI- just that some random people had asked her if she was going to implant him.

If he's not a candidate, it's a moot point. All she has to say to anyone is, "no he's not eligible for it (if that's the case), and if he was I wouldn't implant him". End of story- that will shut them up. Maybe even explain at that point (if they're truly interested in the information) the reasons why she wouldn't implant.

Depending on how you look at it, it can be an opportunity to educate others who otherwise would have never known.

Is moot point because they not want for him.

 

[Latascha]

What is and what isn't child abuse?
I think it really depends on your point of view.
In some countries it is pretty common to beat children up if they don't treat their parents with enough respect or behave in any other way "inappropriate". Would that be child abuse in your eyes? I'd say yes, but still, there are MANY places where it is nothing unusual and where people don't see it as child abuse.
So, no, what those parents did is not child abuse, because it is legal and if you take a look at the bigger picture: they just "fix" him and don't hurt him (what is a little pain compared to everything he will win:roll. Then you can take a look at it from another perspective. They forced their child to have brain surgery, which was totally unnecessary and made him suffer, because they wanted him to have an implant. That could be called child abuse, I think.

 

[Sunshine]

Just because abuser not view as abuse, not mean not abuse.

 

[rebeccalj]

My grandma arms are in a tizzy. Whether to hold that poor child close while snatching him away from those laughing sadists or whether to slap that woman first??

His big brown eyes were so bewildered, so much fear, signing "hurt" and only laughter in response. This is not humane.

That just broke my heart. Poor little boy using his language to tell them 'hurt' and they F@#$ing laugh?? Audism at its finest. :roll:

 

[rebeccalj]

Have any of you seen the video of the second time the implant was activated? He seems a lot calmer and happier there.

That is because his parents have made it clear they want a hearie child. The kid has learned to conform. We learn early about visual cues. :roll:

 

[Bon]

You guys need to put it in perspective a little bit.

I've seen children cry and brawl much worse from being told NO, that they can't have something...

Newborn babies cry all the time because it's their first time hearing and they're not familiar with the sounds they're hearing. This is probably no different, the process is delayed by 2-3 years.

He probably isn't experiencing physical pain as much as he is mental/emotional pain in hearing "loud noises" for the first time making him uncomfortable. If it was real physical pain, we'd have adults crying from the pain as well and I guarantee you, that child would be reacting much more if he was in real physical pain and screaming the house down.

Nothing worthwhile doing is ever easy. It's going to be hard for the child and his parents, but hopefully it pays off. If you watched the second video posted a couple of years later, he actually seems to enjoy it quite a lot now. Did that change your mind?

Babies cry when they get put in the water the first time... does this mean we shouldn't teach our children how to swim because they don't like it initially? Is it child abuse when you put a baby in the water and it cries?

Everybody who is deaf is entitled to stay that way and within the "deaf world", but you should applaud and congratulate those who choose to try and "hear" for a better quality of life. I've been in both worlds and there's no question I'd rather be in the "hearing" world over the "deaf".

 

[rebeccalj]

It would be interesting to see the child's thoughts 2 years later.

Or 15.

 

[posts from hell]

Or 15.

That is more telling.

 

[Latascha]

Just because abuser not view as abuse, not mean not abuse.

Exactly my point.

You guys need to put it in perspective a little bit.

I've seen children cry and brawl much worse from being told NO, that they can't have something...

Newborn babies cry all the time because it's their first time hearing and they're not familiar with the sounds they're hearing. This is probably no different, the process is delayed by 2-3 years.

He probably isn't experiencing physical pain as much as he is mental/emotional pain in hearing "loud noises" for the first time making him uncomfortable. If it was real physical pain, we'd have adults crying from the pain as well and I guarantee you, that child would be reacting much more if he was in real physical pain and screaming the house down.

Nothing worthwhile doing is ever easy. It's going to be hard for the child and his parents, but hopefully it pays off. If you watched the second video posted a couple of years later, he actually seems to enjoy it quite a lot now. Did that change your mind?

Babies cry when they get put in the water the first time... does this mean we shouldn't teach our children how to swim because they don't like it initially? Is it child abuse when you put a baby in the water and it cries?

Everybody who is deaf is entitled to stay that way and within the "deaf world", but you should applaud and congratulate those who choose to try and "hear" for a better quality of life. I've been in both worlds and there's no question I'd rather be in the "hearing" world over the "deaf".

Never heard of newborns crying all the time because it is their first time hearing. What do you mean exactly? Are you talking about hearing children?

You say: "He probably isn't" and with that I already have a problem. Maybe, probably, etc. WE don't know, because NO ONE asked this child! Every adult just assumes what this kid is going through but no one bothered to ask that child, or take his response seriously for that matter. But like you said, if he were in real pain, he would react differently, so just keep smiling at him while he is telling everyone that he is in pain.
Sure an adult would react in another way, but they signed up for this, they know what is to be expected! I didn't cry when I got my ears pierced the first time at age 6. It did hurt, yes, but I knew what was happening and that it was necessary in order to get real earrings. If I've had no clue about what was going to happen, I would've cried out in pain!
But hopefully it pays off.... What? Hopefully he can be a "full" member of the hearing world one day? Or hopefully he has to work all his life, has a chance to hear some sound and struggles to read lips everywhere he goes?
The second video didn't change my mind. Why should it?

Babies cry when they get put in the water the first time? Wow, I honestly don't want to know where you got that from. Sure, if you just throw it in, it'll probably cry, who wouldn't! But honestly, I don't know ONE child that cried at the first bath, or the first time swimming. Normally they enjoy it, because they are used to it, it is something they know. But then again you say every newborn cries all the time... I'm really curious where you get that from.

I congratulate those who CHOOSE to try. But that means really if it is their own choice. If you prefer the hearing word, have fun. Good for YOU, but that doesn't mean that is the right choice for everyone. And those kids, like Chris, never had a choice. That was taken away from them.


It is a bit OT, sorry for that, but I have to throw in a question:
What do you think about babies with earrings. Is it okay for the parents to do that? Or is it child abuse?

 

[Lavender]

I think nutta wrong w/ that. I do believe everybody does cry when they got the first time try that's normal for him to get new experience. We all do the same thing. Does that make sense?

 

[Vorsia]

He dosnt have a choice im sadden for him.....

 

[Bon]

Exactly my point.


Never heard of newborns crying all the time because it is their first time hearing. What do you mean exactly? Are you talking about hearing children?

You say: "He probably isn't" and with that I already have a problem. Maybe, probably, etc. WE don't know, because NO ONE asked this child! Every adult just assumes what this kid is going through but no one bothered to ask that child, or take his response seriously for that matter. But like you said, if he were in real pain, he would react differently, so just keep smiling at him while he is telling everyone that he is in pain.
Sure an adult would react in another way, but they signed up for this, they know what is to be expected! I didn't cry when I got my ears pierced the first time at age 6. It did hurt, yes, but I knew what was happening and that it was necessary in order to get real earrings. If I've had no clue about what was going to happen, I would've cried out in pain!
But hopefully it pays off.... What? Hopefully he can be a "full" member of the hearing world one day? Or hopefully he has to work all his life, has a chance to hear some sound and struggles to read lips everywhere he goes?
The second video didn't change my mind. Why should it?

Babies cry when they get put in the water the first time? Wow, I honestly don't want to know where you got that from. Sure, if you just throw it in, it'll probably cry, who wouldn't! But honestly, I don't know ONE child that cried at the first bath, or the first time swimming. Normally they enjoy it, because they are used to it, it is something they know. But then again you say every newborn cries all the time... I'm really curious where you get that from.

I congratulate those who CHOOSE to try. But that means really if it is their own choice. If you prefer the hearing word, have fun. Good for YOU, but that doesn't mean that is the right choice for everyone. And those kids, like Chris, never had a choice. That was taken away from them.

Yes, I'm talking about hearing babies crying when they hear sounds that sound loud or frightening to them... e.g. when they first come out of the womb to see the bright lights and hear the noise of the world, they cry.. then they get to know their mother's voice which soothes them... new sounds like a dog barking will upset them and make them cry.. then they eventually come to learn the noise and become familiar with it. It's natural progression. If a mother yells at a baby instead of talking it her soothing tone, she will upset it.

How about trusting the mother's intuition and judgement since she probably knows the child better than anyone having mothered and nurtured him since birth? I'm sure the mother would care and love the child more than anyone else in the world and she would surely know if he was seriously being hurt. Babies whinge and cry all the time, it takes a strong mother who loves their child to say no when it's the best thing for them.

For a child to be implanted with a CI (or CIs), the earlier the better... most of the speech and language development takes place in the early years of life... waiting until the child is old enough to make the decision themselves has squandered most of the potential benefits of CIs. At least when the child is old enough to make a decision himself, they can get the CIs removed.

Have you never been around a newborn baby?


I don't mean to be rude or condescending, but it's been my observation that we deaf people are generally lagging behind hearing people when it comes to intelligence - which is no fault of our own, we miss out on so much more compared to hearing people. It makes it that much harder for us to study, get jobs, etc. Why would you want to go through life on an uneven playing field? I don't know of any blind people who would prefer to be blind than have 20/20 vision.

The child is not capable of making a choice since he doesn't have the mental capacity, so the Mother has made what she thinks is the best choice for her child. That's fair enough, every good Mother does the best she can for her child. She might not get every choice right, but she's doing the best she can which is about all you can ask for isn't it?

 

[drphil]

How can a "small child" make a choice re Cochlear Implants or anything else? Isn't that part of the responsibility of parents when they "bring their child into this world"?To be clear- if the parent's choice NOT to Implant-in keeping with this thread- is their responsibility.

 

[dogmom]

thinking about this, not a lotta good words for my immediate response but the picture in my head is
picture why?

ok, as I'm thinking about it more..thinking about dynamics of inequality and societal constructs... "disability" in whose eyes? Broken vs whole, who decides?
whose desires are actually illustrated in the series of videos here?
"quality of life"? whose quality? why does hearing have to equal quality?

power-over defined....

 

[blondon704]

I don't understand why parents in general would not want their children to make that choice. As a parent, I want everything to be my kids choice. If when they get older the ci's are an option then they can choose to get them. If I could reach that women I would rip her face off slowly with spoons, that smirk killed me.

 

[Latascha]

How can a "small child" make a choice re Cochlear Implants or anything else? Isn't that part of the responsibility of parents when they "bring their child into this world"?To be clear- if the parent's choice NOT to Implant-in keeping with this thread- is their responsibility.

I know where you are heading, yet in ths case I don't agree with you. I have to make choices for my daughter, but only the ones that are really necessary.
Most things in life can wait. If it would be a lifesaving surgery and my kid tells me that she is afraid and doesn't want it, I would still make the choice for her to have the surgery. If she tells me one day she doesn't want to go to school, that wouldn't be her choice, either. But those things are important in order to give her the best shot at living a happy life.
A Cochlear Implant is nothing that anybody needs in order to stay healthy. It is nothing you need in order to be educated. Therefore I would never take this choice away from my child. Many parents go for a CI with the expectation that their child will be able to go to a "normal" school, live a "normal" life, learn to speak the parents language,... In other words, they look at the CI and see a way to "fix" their kid. Of course everyone spend a lot of time considering all the risks, etc. what parent wouldn't?! But did they ever spend some time to look around, to see their kid, just the way it is? No, I think not, because then they would have noticed, that there is nothing there to "fix", no need for a CI and therefore no reason to take that choice away from their child.

Good questions, dogmom!

 

[posts from hell]

I know where you are heading, yet in ths case I don't agree with you. I have to make choices for my daughter, but only the ones that are really necessary.
Most things in life can wait. If it would be a lifesaving surgery and my kid tells me that she is afraid and doesn't want it, I would still make the choice for her to have the surgery. If she tells me one day she doesn't want to go to school, that wouldn't be her choice, either. But those things are important in order to give her the best shot at living a happy life.
A Cochlear Implant is nothing that anybody needs in order to stay healthy. It is nothing you need in order to be educated. Therefore I would never take this choice away from my child. Many parents go for a CI with the expectation that their child will be able to go to a "normal" school, live a "normal" life, learn to speak the parents language,... In other words, they look at the CI and see a way to "fix" their kid. Of course everyone spend a lot of time considering all the risks, etc. what parent wouldn't?! But did they ever spend some time to look around, to see their kid, just the way it is? No, I think not, because then they would have noticed, that there is nothing there to "fix", no need for a CI and therefore no reason to take that choice away from their child.

Good questions, dogmom!

I like that, transgressing the object. Beautiful.