Change.org petition for CI coverage

[Grummer]

Here's the thing, society in general, doesn't think about CI, or hearing aids, or deaf peope. They are irrelevant to them. In fact, if there isn't someone directly in their life that may possibly could use one, it would be very odd for them to be thinking about them in the first place. How much concern and thought to put into wheel chairs?


and nobody wants to answer my question about how important their vision is to them, and how that is pertinent to how the hearing world feels about hearing. I am finding this extremely interesting.

i do want to answer,remember i live on the other side of the globe, my time right now is 12pm...

well blindness is totally different, they CAN'T do a damn thing, cooking making cup of tea is extremely difficult (apart from their OWN home where everything placed is 'remembered')

Blind people are still in a Hearing culture...which is why oftentime they talk fast...seemingly to 'make up for lost contacts' (interestingly in Deaf culture there's long goodbyes too)...

Blind people are cut off from things...
but Deaf people are cut off from people...(Helen Keller said that)...but the thing is, the bonding of people IN society where connections are made in the realm of not taskes(blind doing simple things) but of communications (talking sharing ideas, news requests) ...are totally different

Yes I know whats it like being blind (one eye is dead blind , and in motorross track that i used to frequent was 'my home track' i remembered EVERY dips, lumps, bumps, rises and falls, and how steep each ramps and berms were) id beat half the riders out there but other track i have hell cuz i cant see the distance (need 2 eyes to do organically task of trigonometrically judgeing the distance) so i really struggled, just as same as a blind person tries to make cup of coffee in a strange (or new home)...)..

sorry lots brackets that's my Deaf English...

um..id much rather have sight recovered definitely...
but if shall my hearing be totally recovered (after being d/Deaf all my life) i wouldnt become a hearing person , i couldnt because i have unwittingly have became a Deaf person because it has became inside my personality...
my way of understanding myself, my way of understanding commnucations, my way of understand how i give/take with other people is all moulded by 'disability as deafness' which not to say lowered my expectation, i dont mean that, i mean... I wouldnt KNOW myself and would never be able to...its like...id Always be a deaf boy as i grew up,,,id never have a 'hearing boy's memories' of life...that have shaped me...

i cant explain it better, not right now...

im trying to get a permit to do a Masters (hence this years bloody incrediablly difficult research paper)...its hard to 'right now think all this' BUT THIS IS the very thing I WILL write about...
hence lucky for you, it WAS in my back of my mind...but right now i cant go much further because very little or none as has been explored...

hope you'd appreciate a bit more now that i do say i agree about blinded, but deafness is totally different dimension..
now
come think of it (typing spontaneously right now)...if a blind person got all sight, they be thrilled to see 'Ho thats the colours we're been talking about !, grr sighted person were never very good with poetry about colour, how come we're not famour or rich from that?!! and other one might be...
oh Cricket, shit i can catch the ball, Shit that hurts my hand wow it was in the air flying Fast!...
oh cars, wow i can see the steerting wheel how it turns and make car nudging that side to go there.. wow wow....
AND they can STILl have instantly have conversation with sighted people, and probably not talk so fast...because maybe like they would realise not all sighted people are going to talk talk...

but for deaf? suddenly hearing, and the minds have Dont have a fully hearing's language or spontaneousness to be able to TALk...but maybe some missing bits (if you were oralist) or much less if you relied on sign/speech or some sort of combination..it wouldnt even matter if a Deaf person was quite sophsicated(SP? thats one word I'd never spell right grrr)..social interactions in the deaf community across various sub-groups like old people, deaf druggies, deaf sportys, deaf artists, deaf managers of deaf-orientated organisations...blah blah but BEING hearing for them, would be like' gee they can hear so much noise, never knew the world's such a noisy place and never know so many weird conversations hearing people have, how to hearing people ignore those?? (some might go ah!, its because of 'class' and 'status' factors, but to the unprepared (and 95% of them will be this) as sociologists are weird people we analyse the world on those terms (thats what im trained for)...but...
um...
see?? its like Deaf gone hearing is NOT the same as blind gone Sighted...

because the dimension of DOING (things in the world) and KNOWING (communication in the world) are totally, utterly different matters.

its about question of BEING.

 

[naisho]

I had jaundice when I was baby and had GI issue (chronic diarrhea) until 1991.

Yes, I agree with you and I'm very concerned about his health.

CI is better when he is in stable condition and don't have any fatal diseases.

That's what I thought so too. This whole article/debate is about letting this particular boy get ci surgery. It seems even most of the pro-CI people in this thread are in agreement that this boy shouldn't have surgery unless he is healthy and recovered, the same reason many pro-deaf people would agree with.

 

[shel90]

Well, if I was hearing, I wouldn't be around here AD. I would be different person than I am now. I don't think I would be friendly person, considering how I grew up. I probably wouldn't met so many wonderful people in life if I wasn't. I don't know where I'd be in life if I wasn't... It's kinda scary to think about it. =/

Someone told me that if I was hearing, I wouldn't have the empathy as I do now because I am a very driven person. That person said because of having to fight my way though being put in such a restrictive environment, I have empathy for the underdog. No wonder I am very vocal about deaf children's rights to having both worlds.

 

[Foxrac]

That's what I thought so too. This whole article/debate is about letting this particular boy get ci surgery. It seems even most of the pro-CI people in this thread are in agreement that this boy shouldn't have surgery unless he is healthy and recovered, the same reason many pro-deaf people would agree with.

Yes, I know some deaf people had horror experience during birth with health problem and surgeries, especially open heart surgery.

 

[Calvin]

I was jaundiced too with nerve damage in both ears... I grew up with physical and speech therapy. It wasn't fun but I survived them besides, the CI wouldn't be beneficial to me because of nerve damage.

I had jaundice when I was baby and had GI issue (chronic diarrhea) until 1991.

Yes, I agree with you and I'm very concerned about his health.

CI is better when he is in stable condition and don't have any fatal diseases.

 

[Grummer]

Someone told me that if I was hearing, I wouldn't have the empathy as I do now because I am a very driven person. That person said because of having to fight my way though being put in such a restrictive environment, I have empathy for the underdog. No wonder I am very vocal about deaf children's rights to having both worlds.

interesting...
i have wondered about many things like this too, 'alter personalities in the alter universes'...like Fringe...

 

[Foxrac]

I was jaundiced too with nerve damage in both ears... I grew up with physical and speech therapy. It wasn't fun but I survived them besides, the CI wouldn't be beneficial to me because of nerve damage.

Yes, I had bad experience with CI surgery.

My parent originally want me to have CI in early 90's but insurance company denied because I wasn't candidate and in greater risk for complication. It took several years for my parent to got insurance approved on CI because I wasn't doing well in speech therapy. My parent told me that CI will cure my deafness and promised me that I will have perfect life - told me that I may get a nice mansion on coast because of successful career due to CI. After CI surgery, I spent one night at hospital due to blood loss and too sick to be discharged. The doctor recommended me to stay at hospital for few days but my parent decided to took me home early with a lot of pain and bleed in my head. At night after discharge at same day, the blood started soak the band around head and I started had dizzy so started feel very sick with worst pain ever, so my parent took me to ER and had stayed at hospital. That was NOT FUN at all.

My parent's fantastic imagine went faded away and I'm still struggling with my life, even stuck on government welfare and deal with medical condition. I used to work at Walmart and pay was at minimum wage - what's most amazing - NOT!

 

[shel90]

interesting...
i have wondered about many things like this too, 'alter personalities in the alter universes'...like Fringe...

Yea, what a great show Fringe is!

 

[Calvin]

Sorry to hear you went through this, this is indeed sad that some parents are ignorant about CI thinking it will cure deafness. I grew up wearing hearing aids and did not have much issues but hated wearing comtek during middle school years.

The good thing is that you're still around here to debate with us. The CI is not for everyone, and it has risks involved. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation about CI such as "cures deafness" for example. There's no way to "fix" deaf ears just like we can't "fix" eyes.

Yes, I had bad experience with CI surgery.

My parent originally want me to have CI in early 90's but insurance company denied because I wasn't candidate and in greater risk for complication. It took several years for my parent to got insurance approved on CI because I wasn't doing well in speech therapy. My parent told me that CI will cure my deafness and promised me that I will have perfect life - told me that I may get a nice mansion on coast because of successful career due to CI. After CI surgery, I spent one night at hospital due to blood loss and too sick to be discharged. The doctor recommended me to stay at hospital for few days but my parent decided to took me home early with a lot of pain and bleed in my head. At night after discharge at same day, the blood started soak the band around head and I started had dizzy so started feel very sick with worst pain ever, so my parent took me to ER and had stayed at hospital. That was NOT FUN at all.

My parent's fantastic imagine went faded away and I'm still struggling with my life, even stuck on government welfare and deal with medical condition. I used to work at Walmart and pay was at minimum wage - what's most amazing - NOT!

 

[shel90]

Yes, I had bad experience with CI surgery.

My parent originally want me to have CI in early 90's but insurance company denied because I wasn't candidate and in greater risk for complication. It took several years for my parent to got insurance approved on CI because I wasn't doing well in speech therapy. My parent told me that CI will cure my deafness and promised me that I will have perfect life - told me that I may get a nice mansion on coast because of successful career due to CI. After CI surgery, I spent one night at hospital due to blood loss and too sick to be discharged. The doctor recommended me to stay at hospital for few days but my parent decided to took me home early with a lot of pain and bleed in my head. At night after discharge at same day, the blood started soak the band around head and I started had dizzy so started feel very sick with worst pain ever, so my parent took me to ER and had stayed at hospital. That was NOT FUN at all.

My parent's fantastic imagine went faded away and I'm still struggling with my life, even stuck on government welfare and deal with medical condition. I used to work at Walmart and pay was at minimum wage - what's most amazing - NOT!

I see the same attitude to this day from the parents about their deaf children. It is like, "come on...ASL will NOT make your child fail...not having full access to language and education will."


And like with many other children who I have suffered, I am sorry that u had to go through that.

 

[Foxrac]

Sorry to hear you went through this, this is indeed sad that some parents are ignorant about CI thinking it will cure deafness. I grew up wearing hearing aids and did not have much issues but hated wearing comtek during middle school years.

The good thing is that you're still around here to debate with us. The CI is not for everyone, and it has risks involved. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misinformation about CI such as "cures deafness" for example. There's no way to "fix" deaf ears just like we can't "fix" eyes.

Yes, that's true.

After almost two years with CI, I was diagnosed with Usher Syndrome that caused my parent became very depressed. They decided to end the speech therapy after 10 years and they told me that I could go to deaf school if I'm interested.

My parent is mild audist and they made some misinformation.

 

[ambrosia]

No one who has the ability to see wants to lose it. It's like asking to remove a vital component of your physiology, like would you want to remove your arms or hands now that you are used using them?
Sure, ask someone who already has loss of limbs and their response is going to differ from the majority of people.

Back to the blindness vs deafness issue, eye vision is one of those traits in society that are somewhat critical to life.

Take for example:
Can you watch movies or tv shows?
Can you read text/books (barring braille) as easily?
Can you read a map or find directions? (without relying on someone)
Can you take photography?
Can you run a marathon?
Can you operate a motorcycle or vehicle?
Is there a lot of work that doesn't require vision vs not requiring hearing?

If someone chooses to be deaf, they can still do a lot of things general society is capable of... There's like a steep difference from being stone deaf vs visual impairment.

That's how you feel because you've adapted, I bet a blind person disagrees with some of those things on the list, they've adapted.

Here's the thing...my point.....a hearing person could come up with just as long of a list of things a deaf person couldn't do or experience, and yet you all can't understand how hearing people put so much value on hearing. They don't think hearing makes them "superior", it's not a judgement. If anything they feel compassion and concern, they don't want other people to do without hearing, just as you wouldn't want to do without your sight.


I'm not asking for a quantification of deafness and blindness, which one is relied on more, that's irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make. As is the cultural aspect dogmom, that has nothing to do with the comparison. You're overcomplicating and deflecting the question.

Hearies feel being able to hear is better than not being able to hear. You shouldn't hold that against them, judge them for that. BECAUSE you feel the same about your sight.

Yes hearing and sight are very very similar, and very comparable, a sense that does not work, a sense that you are not experiencing. If you cannot see my point, it's a matter of right or wrong, but closed mindedness and unwillingness to view something from any point other than your own. Personally I think a lot of that bitterness stems from childhood experiences,
feelings instilled as a child that took root.

But I realise that me, one person, is not going to have an effect on years worth of developed prejudice, and yes there is for sure prejudism against hearing people on this site, that was the first thing I noticed when I came here. I was nosing around on here for a while and said to my sister, deaf people hate hearing people. Anyway, even if I got you sit and think about it, even for a minute, I'm happy. It might cross your mind again someday, open it up a little bit, maybe not. Doesn't matter.

 

[AlleyCat]

I was nosing around on here for a while and said to my sister, deaf people hate hearing people. Anyway, even if I got you sit and think about it, even for a minute, I'm happy. It might cross your mind again someday, open it up a little bit, maybe not. Doesn't matter.

Huh. So I hate the hearing man I just married 9 months ago.

 

[naisho]

That's how you feel because you've adapted, I bet a blind person disagrees with some of those things on the list, they've adapted.

I still disagree but this isn't 'who is right' debate for me, it is still what seems more feasible. I still feel that blind people have it worse than deaf when it comes who the question of which loss of sense has it worse with mainstream society.

I never had to adapt to watching TV, reading, running, using a camera, riding a bike as a result of deafness. They naturally come to myself or any other deaf/hearing person when growing up. For a blind person, they would require some compelling notion that convinces them to engage in activities that require eyesight. I can agree that a total blind person can attempt some of these things, but I disagree that it would hold their interest for very long - hence they would probably not be as likely to involve in these things in the first place.

Here's the thing...my point.....a hearing person could come up with just as long of a list of things a deaf person couldn't do or experience, and yet you all can't understand how hearing people put so much value on hearing. They don't think hearing makes them "superior", it's not a judgement. If anything they feel compassion and concern, they don't want other people to do without hearing, just as you wouldn't want to do without your sight.

I've actually asked that question before with hearing and on forums of hearing. The responses I've seen for the question I ask "What would you miss if you didn't have hearing?", are generally:
- No Music
- Can't communicate (auditory) - but some have countered saying they wouldn't mind writing or learning sign.
- Can't hear infant/girlfriend/relative etc voice (voices that sound appealing if they hearing)
- Danger in situations that benefit hearing (involving death/crime/etc)

These things hearing describe as what they would lose if they lost their hearing, are things that even a hearing person who chooses to wear earplugs can generally get by in life without too much adaptation.
Comparing a list of 'downsides' from being deaf and being blind, I think being blind has it worse if we are still talking about "who's more mainstreamed/adapted to society".

I don't feel deafness makes me "superior" to hearing people, aside that I don't have to listen to unwanted noises or get a full night's sleep without noise interruption. That's about it.

 

[ambrosia]

Again, it wasn't a question of which is worse, I wasn't asking that, at all. Just the concept of missing a sense is not a personal judgement against someone. There are serious misconceptions about WHY hearing people feel the way they do. If someone were to think about how they would feel to lose their sight it might put into perspective why hearies feel the way they do. But that might be asking some to think too far outside their box I think.

 

[ambrosia]

Huh. So I hate the hearing man I just married 9 months ago.

It wasn't a direct statement to specific people. If you had a different perspective and read through some of these threads without the deaf perspective you'd see what I mean.

It's a general attitude. Annoying ignorant hearing people??? Okay, nough said. Seriously I have seen more negative feelings and ideas from the deaf of hearies than from hearies about deaf. Actually I've never once in my life heard anyone say anything negative about deaf people. Ever

 

[RisinDragon]

I was nosing around on here for a while and said to my sister, deaf people hate hearing people. Anyway, even if I got you sit and think about it, even for a minute, I'm happy. It might cross your mind again someday, open it up a little bit, maybe not. Doesn't matter.

Huh. So I hate the hearing man I just married 9 months ago.

She's not saying every deaf person is like this. But there are some that really do not like deafs/HoHs who speaks and don't sign. (btw, without my hearing aids I am completely deaf, I am able to hear some sounds in my right ear. But that's all it is to me is muffled sounds.)

I experience exactly what Ambrosia is talking about at RIT/NTID. I was an Oral HoH student who did not know ASL at that time. I didn't know a single sign people were signing. But me having a photographic memory. I remembered the signs because I wanted to learn and hopefully be able to communicate. After I took my ASL classes, I didn't see the signs I saw from my teacher. I signed them to him and he told me what they meant. And believe me they were not nice signs. It made me even more depressed.

I know many deafs at RIT/NTID were not like that, but they were there.

 

[naisho]

Again, it wasn't a question of which is worse, I wasn't asking that, at all. Just the concept of missing a sense is not a personal judgement against someone. There are serious misconceptions about WHY hearing people feel the way they do. If someone were to think about how they would feel to lose their sight it might put into perspective why hearies feel the way they do. But that might be asking some to think too far outside their box I think.

Basically, the point I'm saying is that you lose more if you go blind than if you went deaf. Which is not related to the argument you are trying to make (people who want to retain that sense for their child or themselves but get bashed for it), but as a result of going blind or going deaf, you can easily observe that "it's not too bad" being deaf... Why? because it's different than being able to see due to those list of things that were irrelevant to the argument you were trying to make.

I take it that this is reference (of being against hearing) to the "what bothers you about hearing people" thread?
I haven't seen anyone take pride in their deafness other than Deaf Power/Militants, and I don't see many of the purists/deafists on AD these days. A lot of ADers (and I'm inferring this as the deafened-asl-only) have sympathy for the late deaf because they miss out on what they were used to (hearing). What's different is when it comes to a child who has only has several years or less on their "life progress" belt.

The hoh/deaf kid is not going to miss out much from being deaf and pursuing that life than they are going to CI and pursuing that life. It's a matter of personal decision but unfortunately the family tends to make that for them since it's hard to tell which direction they want to go at a young age.

 

[AlleyCat]

She's not saying every deaf person is like this. But there are some that really do not like deafs/HoHs who speaks and don't sign. (btw, without my hearing aids I am completely deaf, I am able to hear some sounds in my right ear. But that's all it is to me is muffled sounds.)

I experience exactly what Ambrosia is talking about at RIT/NTID. I was an Oral HoH student who did not know ASL at that time. I didn't know a single sign people were signing. But me having a photographic memory. I remembered the signs because I wanted to learn and hopefully be able to communicate. After I took my ASL classes, I didn't see the signs I saw from my teacher. I signed them to him and he told me what they meant. And believe me they were not nice signs. It made me even more depressed.

I am sorry and surprised you had that experience. I went to RIT/NTID myself for 4 years for Business Management. I had a wonderful time there. I am profoundly deaf. I do have HAs but no sounds really make sense to me.

 

[dogmom]

ohhh, but the cultural has so much to do with it, and the fact that one doesn't see it, makes it all so much more obvious.

and, as with a lot of the prejudices in today's times - the most insidious and persistent oppression/negativity is no longer directly stated.