Cesar Millan's Depression .

I did not realize Cesar tried to commit suicide after his divorce , I don't think he is stupid in any way and I am glad he got the help he needed . This show anyone can get depress no matter how successful they're and if someone as famous as Cesar can so depress and feel there is no reason to live , it has to be harder for teenagers to feeling this way.
 
I'm sorry he has depression. I still think he's a crap dog trainer, he uses techniques that have been proven to be based on incorrect theory and don't actually train the dog.
 
Eater of Worlds said:
I'm sorry he has depression. I still think he's a crap dog trainer, he uses techniques that have been proven to be based on incorrect theory and don't actually train the dog.
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That's a matter of debate. He has a large following and people do say his techniques work.

Although, I do think his shows are mostly entertainment driven. The ratings certainly go up when he is dealing with aggressive dogs.

Like anything, I'm one technique(no matter which) will not solve every dog's problem.

He's part trainer and part showman.
 
No, actually it's not a matter of debate when it comes to the science of the learning and behavior.

What is debate-able for some people is whether the end results of those kinds of methods justify that type of technique.

In other words, do people want to use punishment and fear, or do people want to use other methods to achieve the same results?

<begin quote from longer article>
"Physical corrections, "combined with a lack of positive reinforcement or rewards," the Times concludes, "place Mr. Millan firmly in a long tradition of punitive dog trainers."

Science has undermined the foundation of Millan's rather hostile training philosophy: that people must dominate their dogs. This dominance theory is based on 1960′s studies of wolf packs in captivity that found individuals vying for dominance and labeled the winner "alpha."

The scientist who did much of the wolf research, Dave Mech, does not believe it applies to dogs. In fact, he has concluded that it doesn't apply even to wolves when they are in the wild, where he found that their group dynamics resemble those in human families. "They don't have to fight to get to the top. When they mature and find a mate they are at the top." There is no need for displays of aggression to win a contest for the alpha spot."
<end quote>

from this article: Why The Dog Whisperer Has Dog Training Entirely Wrong - PawNation
 
I don't see those trainers tackling aggressive dog issues like Caesar:

Dog Breeds - PawNation

I might have missed it. Can you point out on their website a picture of a Pitt Bull or American Bull Dog?

You can't pick and choose the dogs to train.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
That's a matter of debate. He has a large following and people do say his techniques work.

Although, I do think his shows are mostly entertainment driven. The ratings certainly go up when he is dealing with aggressive dogs.

Like anything, I'm one technique(no matter which) will not solve every dog's problem.

He's part trainer and part showman.
Click to expand...

I agree he is part showman , I posted this b/c some people where saying things about the girl that committed suicide after her mom told her to get off Facebook . People see Cesar as being a strong minded person and I was trying to show that even people that appear to have it all together can get so depress that will try to commit suicide . If someone like Cesar can get this low and want dies , a teenager will feel this way a lot faster b/c they act on emotions a lot faster than adult do. I think it's very sad when people start calling a teenager stupid when she just commit suicide . This could be anyone child .
 
:wave:VacationGuy,
All dogs learn the same way, that is part of what learning theory is about - organisms will do what is reinforcing for them whether that's a "pit bull", a fish, a frog or a chimp.

Breed or type has nothing to do with whether a dog "needs" <so-called>a harsh/punitive-based training system, or not. My Rotties are considered by some "traditional" trainers to "need" harsh or dominance-based methods, because they are Rotts. That is inaccurate and scientifically unsound.

And, APBT is -NOT an "aggressive dog' - this has been discussed elsewhere

all dogs have the ability to aggress, all dogs bite and all dogs can inflict damage.

Showing you a picture of supposedly "aggressive" types of breeds in that article, is a non-issue.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
I agree he is part showman , I posted this b/c some people where saying things about the girl that committed suicide after her mom told her to get off Facebook . People see Cesar as being a strong minded person and I was trying to show that even people that appear to have it all together can get so depress that will try to commit suicide . If someone like Cesar can get this low and want dies , a teenager will feel this way a lot faster b/c they act on emotions a lot faster than adult do. I think it's very sad when people start calling a teenager stupid when she just commit suicide . This could be anyone child .
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That is true. While I don't pity well off people, I'm willing to admit they deal with more issues due to fame than average people. And, they are not immune to mental illness. At least, to this point, Caesar has recovered well.
 
dogmom said:
:wave:VacationGuy,
All dogs learn the same way, that is part of what learning theory is about - organisms will do what is reinforcing for them whether that's a "pit bull", a fish, a frog or a chimp.

Breed or type has nothing to do with whether a dog "needs" <so-called>a harsh/punitive-based training system, or not. My Rotties are considered by some "traditional" trainers to "need" harsh or dominance-based methods, because they are Rotts. That is inaccurate and scientifically unsound.

And, APBT is -NOT an "aggressive dog' - this has been discussed elsewhere

all dogs have the ability to aggress, all dogs bite and all dogs can inflict damage.

Showing you a picture of supposedly "aggressive" types of breeds in that article, is a non-issue.
Click to expand...

I disagree. I think it is an issue. The biggest issue we have now is dog bans. Whole cities ban certain breeds of dogs, forcing owners to move and dogs to be killed. And, Caesar appears to be the only one, who has single handedly, I might ad, helped the image of the Pit Bull. And, the whole point of training is so that dogs, any dogs, aren't unfairly put to death, right?

What kills dogs isn't training, it's people. That's the problem both sides are trying to solve.

We can argue both sides of the training, but, ultimately, it's the dogs who are paying the price.

So, what I would like to know is this: Of the people who have used the Caesar method, how many of those dogs still have aggressiveness issues? How many of those dogs have been taken away from owners? I'm not seeing the actual people saying his methods don't work. I'm only seeing that message from the other side, from the people who do not use that method.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
That is true. While I don't pity well off people, I'm willing to admit they deal with more issues due to fame than average people. And, they are not immune to mental illness. At least, to this point, Caesar has recovered well.
Click to expand...

You're missing the my point.
 
whatdidyousay! said:
You're missing the my point.
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I'm sorry, but the comment was made about the training. So, that's fair game. As I said, anybody is susceptible to mental illness. He had a touch time. His dog died and his wife left him, he was under a lot of stress.

BTW, this story was out last year. As I understand it, he's been doing well.
 
Eater of Worlds said:
I'm sorry he has depression. I still think he's a crap dog trainer, he uses techniques that have been proven to be based on incorrect theory and don't actually train the dog.
Click to expand...

What surprised me is that I always thought he was gay. +1 on the dog training theory, I never cared for his "pack" mentality. True they need guidance but they're not Wolves...

Laura
 
VacationGuy234 said:
I'm sorry, but the comment was made about the training. So, that's fair game. As I said, anybody is susceptible to mental illness. He had a touch time. His dog died and his wife left him, he was under a lot of stress.

BTW, this story was out last year. As I understand it, he's been doing well.
Click to expand...

You still are not getting my point so just forget it.
 
Lau2046 said:
What surprised me is that I always thought he was gay. +1 on the dog training theory, I never cared for his "pack" mentality. True they need guidance but they're not Wolves...

Laura
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dogs do have wolf instincts but the big difference is... dog's "wolf" behavior is not as raw as wolves... hence they're domesticated wolves.

the biggest and most important distinction between domesticated wolves (dogs) and wild wolves is that dogs can eat food in human presence. wolves? good luck.
 
Heck, i wouldn't consider dogs domesticated wolves. They are so far from wolves in behavior it's like they are two different species! Which is one way they define species, by behavior, even if they can easily interbreed like wolves and dogs can. If they were domesticated wolves they would call them the same species. Mixes also do badly as pets, because the wolf side fights with the expectations that people have of them as pets and they consider them dogs when they aren't.
 
Eater of Worlds said:
Heck, i wouldn't consider dogs domesticated wolves. They are so far from wolves in behavior it's like they are two different species! Which is one way they define species, by behavior, even if they can easily interbreed like wolves and dogs can. If they were domesticated wolves they would call them the same species. Mixes also do badly as pets, because the wolf side fights with the expectations that people have of them as pets and they consider them dogs when they aren't.
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lol. lot of contradictions in your post.

wild horse and domesticated horse. same thing.
 
Jiro said:
lol. lot of contradictions in your post.

wild horse and domesticated horse. same thing.
Click to expand...

I'd say unless anyone on this forum works with animals for a living, no one can make generalizations like an expert...all of us should admit we're pretty ignorant on the subject - hence why there's been so many books on the subjects of animal behavior.
 
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