Cash for clunkers

[radioman]

Such a waste.

Over the past years, Hubby and I have bought used rebuilt engines and transmissions to keep our otherwise fine vehicles running. I'm sure other people have done that also. Now, people will have to buy new ones (much more expensive) instead.

Also, by destroying the so-called "clunkers", the pool of inexpensive used cars is drying up. Fewer cheap cars available for poorer people.

Sigh, just another program to make life harder for the poor people.

I agree with everything you said. I think its really for those who are ready to buy now anyway and can afford it. Not for those in need of a car, but cant afford it. It just pushes them further in debt. what a hypercrite! I think those with hummers need to be part of program who uses them as daily drivers!!!!!!!

 

[Foxrac]

Suppose $10 billion gets dumped into this clunker deal and that the price of a new car is $12,000 which means 800,000 more cars with better gas mileage would be bought, supposedly so, over the course of a few years or so. Problem is that the average length of time car owners hold onto their cars is 10 years. The number of registered passenger cars is over 250,000,000 according to a 2006 DOT study. This means it'll take a few decades or so to see a turnover of cars on the road that are fuel efficient automobiles. The assumption is that this program will help reduce gas/oil consumption but then again the U.S. grows almost 1% a year (3,000,000) which means more cars and more oil/gas to be comsumed in the process even though cars may be more fuel efficient the number adds up quickly when you consider these factors.

Oil isn't used for cars only, it used in many thing, such as plastic, asphalt, lubricant, heating oil, kerosene, etc.

When US population growth as oil consumption increased and we have find way to reduce of demand on oil.

There's no projection about fuel consumption has increase in next decade, unless you make assumption.

 

[kokonut]

Oil isn't used for cars only, it used in many thing, such as plastic, asphalt, lubricant, heating oil, kerosene, etc.

When US population growth as oil consumption increased and we have find way to reduce of demand on oil.

There's no projection about fuel consumption has increase in next decade, unless you make assumption.

Glad you brought that up. The people who started this cash for clunkers deal believe that they can get enough of the inefficient cars off the road they'll save/reduce oil consumption by 10%. Problem is that for that 10% to be realized millions of fuel hogs will be required to be taken off the road and will take years for that to happen. But by that time the population would've grown another 10% in ten years and more cars would be bought.

Transportation represents 2/3 of our oil consumption (cars, trains, airplanes, boats, ships) and that the cars and trucks we drive make up 45% of the transportation total. And with 250 million cars and trucks, it'll take quite some time to see a changeover to make any noticeable differences in oil consumption.

Projections are done all the time based on existing information and certain assumptions thrown in to see what possible results may come about.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

I felt like crying after watching that vid

ME TOO!
a lot charities are upset about the cash for clunkers as they're not getting people used cars to help rasie money . People can buy a Hummer with the cash for clunkers deal! Hummers are gas guzzler! I thought the cars had to be "GREEN " to help the environment! "Cash for clunkers" is only to help the auto dealers make money! It has nothing to with helping the environment!
I also when people get the a car on this deal the governmemt take control of their computer! The government can access your computer and see what web sites you are ,etc! Fox news picked up on and the government said they would stop the computer take over!

 

[Foxrac]

Glad you brought that up. The people who started this cash for clunkers deal believe that they can get enough of the inefficient cars off the road they'll save/reduce oil consumption by 10%. Problem is that for that 10% to be realized millions of fuel hogs will be required to be taken off the road and will take years for that to happen. But by that time the population would've grown another 10% in ten years and more cars would be bought.

Transportation represents 2/3 of our oil consumption (cars, trains, airplanes, boats, ships) and that the cars and trucks we drive make up 45% of the transportation total. And with 250 million cars and trucks, it'll take quite some time to see a changeover to make any noticeable differences in oil consumption.

Projections are done all the time based on existing information and certain assumptions thrown in to see what possible results may come about.

Hear of ethanol? They will replace the gasoline and congress are work on it to require all cars to support ethanol, it had been done in Brazil in last 25 years ago.

We wouldn't get next gen of cars with no gasoline, such as hybrid, plug in or fuel cell for reasonable price until 2020 or 2030, it take very long time to invest on alternative fuel or other energy source for cheaper price.

 

[kokonut]

Hear of ethanol? They will replace the gasoline and congress are work on it to require all cars to support ethanol, it had been done in Brazil in last 25 years ago.

We wouldn't get next gen of cars with no gasoline, such as hybrid, plug in or fuel cell for reasonable price until 2020 or 2030, it take very long time to invest on alternative fuel or other energy source for cheaper price.

Ethanol has proven to be less fuel efficient (more power for the buck) than gasoline. It actually reduces your MPG when you mix 10% of Ethanol by volume with gasoline! In terms of energy density (the amount of energy you get out of it) gasoline's energy density is 60% more than Ethanol. Diesel is about 80% more than Ethanol. Natural gas has about 18% more energy density than Ethanol. Cars with ethanol mixed gasoline will require you to pay more money just to get the same MPG if you use just only gasoline. And requires you to buy more of the mixed gasoline in greater volume, too.

Brazil's ethanol comes from sugar cane which is a food crop, also. Not smart. Secondly, not all of Brazil's car run soley on Ethanol but a mix of 25% Ethanol and 75% gasoline. You still need petroleum based gasoline to run the cars and the population continues to grow which means more gasoline is needed.
And before you hold Brazil's sugar cane ethanol as the holy grail of gasoline you might want to read this about how slave labor is used to get the sugar cane to make the "gasoline" for Brazil's vehicles.
A 'Green Tsunami' in Brazil: The High Price of Clean, Cheap Ethanol - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

And you thought that oil was bad?

 

[Reba]

Hear of ethanol? They will replace the gasoline and congress are work on it to require all cars to support ethanol, it had been done in Brazil in last 25 years ago....

The problem is that ethanol is not a perfect solution. It uses more energy and expense to process than gasoline. Also, it uses up farm land that should be producing food, not fuel. Thus, it makes the cost of food go up, and become less available.

Brazil's climate and land mass allows it to grow cheap sugarcane for ethanol use. Not every country has the right conditions for growing sugarcane.

Most of the USA ethanol is from corn. Corn is more expensive than sugarcane to produce ethanol.

This link has interesting charts that compare Brazil and USA production of ethanol.

Brazil's Ethanol Industry

"The United States and Brazil are the two largest ethanol producers in the world as shown in Table 2. Together they account for almost 90 percent of world production."

 

[Reba]

Ethanol has proven to be less fuel efficient (more power for the buck) than gasoline. It actually reduces your MPG when you mix 10% of Ethanol by volume with gasoline! In terms of energy density (the amount of energy you get out of it) gasoline's energy density is 60% more than Ethanol. Diesel is about 80% more than Ethanol. Natural gas has about 18% more energy density than Ethanol. Cars with ethanol mixed gasoline will require you to pay more money just to get the same MPG if you use just only gasoline. And requires you to buy more of the mixed gasoline in greater volume, too.

Brazil's ethanol comes from sugar cane which is a food crop, also. Not smart. Secondly, not all of Brazil's car run soley on Ethanol but a mix of 25% Ethanol and 75% gasoline. You still need petroleum based gasoline to run the cars and the population continues to grow which means more gasoline is needed.
And before you hold Brazil's sugar cane ethanol as the holy grail of gasoline you might want to read this about how slave labor is used to get the sugar cane to make the "gasoline" for Brazil's vehicles.
A 'Green Tsunami' in Brazil: The High Price of Clean, Cheap Ethanol - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

And you thought that oil was bad?

I didn't realize you had posted this while I was composing my post.

 

[kokonut]

I didn't realize you had posted this while I was composing my post.

Did you read the "Green Tsunami" der Spiegel article in the link I provided?

I guess the answer to solve "global warming" is to do more sugarcane production, massive land-clearing of rainforest in Brazil and the use of slave labor to process the sugar canes to make Ethanol.

Those "global warming" crowd are absolutely nutso and justifies just about anything, even if it means looking away from this slave labor business in Brazil. Everything they say is full of contradictions, hypocrisies, and conundrums.

 

[Calvin]

Owner is dumbass and she don't know what classic mean.

Yes... That car should be put in museum, and it is rare collector and another reason is the car is featured in back to the future movie.

 

[The Highlander]

Ethanol has proven to be less fuel efficient (more power for the buck) than gasoline. It actually reduces your MPG when you mix 10% of Ethanol by volume with gasoline! In terms of energy density (the amount of energy you get out of it) gasoline's energy density is 60% more than Ethanol. Diesel is about 80% more than Ethanol. Natural gas has about 18% more energy density than Ethanol. Cars with ethanol mixed gasoline will require you to pay more money just to get the same MPG if you use just only gasoline. And requires you to buy more of the mixed gasoline in greater volume, too.

Brazil's ethanol comes from sugar cane which is a food crop, also. Not smart. Secondly, not all of Brazil's car run soley on Ethanol but a mix of 25% Ethanol and 75% gasoline. You still need petroleum based gasoline to run the cars and the population continues to grow which means more gasoline is needed.
And before you hold Brazil's sugar cane ethanol as the holy grail of gasoline you might want to read this about how slave labor is used to get the sugar cane to make the "gasoline" for Brazil's vehicles.
A 'Green Tsunami' in Brazil: The High Price of Clean, Cheap Ethanol - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

And you thought that oil was bad?

I don't understand, Why USA dont bother to use propane for cars. Mostly Europe use propane and it's more MPG than gasoline, what I heard.

I believe biodiesel is less emission than diesel. I don't see biodiesel anywhere yet, Why take too long to change? Yes, biodiesel is work on any diesel engine and help more MPG and less emission.

 

[sequoias]

I don't understand, Why USA dont bother to use propane for cars. Mostly Europe use propane and it's more MPG than gasoline, what I heard.

I believe biodiesel is less emission than diesel. I don't see biodiesel anywhere yet, Why take too long to change? Yes, biodiesel is work on any diesel engine and help more MPG and less emission.

Theres lot of biodiesel fuel at major gas stations here.

 

[Jiro]

I don't understand, Why USA dont bother to use propane for cars. Mostly Europe use propane and it's more MPG than gasoline, what I heard.

I believe biodiesel is less emission than diesel. I don't see biodiesel anywhere yet, Why take too long to change? Yes, biodiesel is work on any diesel engine and help more MPG and less emission.

because it's not practical yet in USA.

 

[The Highlander]

Theres lot of biodiesel fuel at major gas stations here.

Lucky!

 

[The Highlander]

because it's not practical yet in USA.

Almost 4 years and still not enough yet.

 

[sequoias]

Lucky!

Hmmm, I thought biodiesel fueling stations are common in Midwest as well?

 

[Jiro]

Hmmm, I thought biodiesel fueling stations are common in Midwest as well?

link

 

[sequoias]

See how dense it is in Midwest? Of course, most are only a small blend of biodiesel.

 

[The Highlander]

Thank you for the link and only found one for closer our house. Geez.

I noticed note said "Please note: Blends data may vary due to seasonal temperatures that impact biodiesel viscosity. Always call ahead to verify."

 

[Foxrac]

The problem is that ethanol is not a perfect solution. It uses more energy and expense to process than gasoline. Also, it uses up farm land that should be producing food, not fuel. Thus, it makes the cost of food go up, and become less available.

Brazil's climate and land mass allows it to grow cheap sugarcane for ethanol use. Not every country has the right conditions for growing sugarcane.

Most of the USA ethanol is from corn. Corn is more expensive than sugarcane to produce ethanol.

This link has interesting charts that compare Brazil and USA production of ethanol.

Brazil's Ethanol Industry

"The United States and Brazil are the two largest ethanol producers in the world as shown in Table 2. Together they account for almost 90 percent of world production."

In bold, it's highly debate about ethanol cause food price goes skyrocket but for me, it's not true because most of food price has went up due speculation and heavily investment due CFTC has became weaken to cap on investment on oil, corn, wheat, etc. Now, CFTC has already cap the invest on oil, corn, wheat and few other commodities in last few month ago and I checked future trade on corn price and it will stable, unlike in few years ago when corn price went skyrocket.

There's link about more info.
High Food Prices: Ethanol is Not the Problem

US has alot of projection to grow more corns.