Can the OGT (ohio graduation test) be interpreted?

[inmate23]

Do u sign as u read?(like some people speak as they read)

i sign as i read. mostly i visualize myself signing as i am reading something. it makes more sense to me anyways.

So you dont NEED an interpreter because this just a habit picked up in the early years of school sorry to say.

You were taught to read "aloud" not by sight reading.

what i mean by aloud is you were taught to read by signing to somebody who was checking you were reading the book correctly.

 

[Reba]

So you dont NEED an interpreter because this just a habit picked up in the early years of school sorry to say.

You were taught to read "aloud" not by sight reading.

what i mean by aloud is you were taught to read by signing to somebody who was checking you were reading the book correctly.

It sounds more like she's translating what she's reading in order to increase comprehension. It's like a hearing person reading German text and vocalizing it into English for better understanding.

 

[jillio]

Strong agreement here. You could go to St. Rita's and take it there, with their other students.

Agreed. Another possibility would be the Ohio School for the Deaf in Columbus.

As this poster is planning to go to college, it is important that she take the test, and that it be in a format that allows complete access and comprehension. That involves a little more than simple interpreting.

 

[RoseRodent]

My thoughts is people who are spanish are allowed to have a spanish-recorded interpreted tape, as well as french, and other languages except for ASL. I don't understand why. The school says that if we had an interpreter interpret the questions for me, they would think that they would be giving me the answers and not really letting me do it on my own.

That is the bit that bothers me - what are they saying about the professionalism of interpreting services? I've had similar objections raised regards amenuensis (verbal to written transcribing services for blind students) because they think for some reason you will help them with it. Why would I? My professional job role and engagement is to write down what the person says, no matter if they are wrong answers. It is an undermining of sign and interpreter services as being a professional engagement to do a given service, like a Spanish interpreter can be relied upon to read out the script but oh no, the ASL interpreter cannot be trusted and will be giving you all the answers.

Different languages have different structures, look up one word in an English-French dictionary and the same word might be translated in 5 different ways according to context. Similarly with ASL because it is a different language. When someone is not a fully native speaker of a language there are subtleties which aren't quite equivalent, like in French the "we" in a sentence like "At Christmas we eat turkey" would be replaced with "on mange" or "one eats", and it facilitates understanding that it is a "general we" rather than a more specific "we" comprising the speaker and a given group of people she expects to eat with. It's a correct translation but it's not quite understood in the same way, and that's with a very simple sentence of text, how much more complex when these things are built upon. If native speakers of other languages are allowed translated material I don't think ASL should be disallowed, it's services for everyone or services for no-one, but particularly I think the comment that the interpreter can't be allowed in case they help with the exam is outrageous and should be challenged.

 

[Reba]

That is the bit that bothers me - what are they saying about the professionalism of interpreting services? I've had similar objections raised regards amenuensis (verbal to written transcribing services for blind students) because they think for some reason you will help them with it. Why would I? My professional job role and engagement is to write down what the person says, no matter if they are wrong answers. It is an undermining of sign and interpreter services as being a professional engagement to do a given service, like a Spanish interpreter can be relied upon to read out the script but oh no, the ASL interpreter cannot be trusted and will be giving you all the answers.

I know. It occasionally happens to me. It's a real quick in the pants.

 

[coolgirlspyer90]

That is the bit that bothers me - what are they saying about the professionalism of interpreting services? I've had similar objections raised regards amenuensis (verbal to written transcribing services for blind students) because they think for some reason you will help them with it. Why would I? My professional job role and engagement is to write down what the person says, no matter if they are wrong answers. It is an undermining of sign and interpreter services as being a professional engagement to do a given service, like a Spanish interpreter can be relied upon to read out the script but oh no, the ASL interpreter cannot be trusted and will be giving you all the answers.

Different languages have different structures, look up one word in an English-French dictionary and the same word might be translated in 5 different ways according to context. Similarly with ASL because it is a different language. When someone is not a fully native speaker of a language there are subtleties which aren't quite equivalent, like in French the "we" in a sentence like "At Christmas we eat turkey" would be replaced with "on mange" or "one eats", and it facilitates understanding that it is a "general we" rather than a more specific "we" comprising the speaker and a given group of people she expects to eat with. It's a correct translation but it's not quite understood in the same way, and that's with a very simple sentence of text, how much more complex when these things are built upon. If native speakers of other languages are allowed translated material I don't think ASL should be disallowed, it's services for everyone or services for no-one, but particularly I think the comment that the interpreter can't be allowed in case they help with the exam is outrageous and should be challenged.

I agree, I mean, I feel like it isn't fair to me that other students who knows spanish, french,etc as their primary language and is able to translate it to words that they can understand while i can't.

Agreed. Another possibility would be the Ohio School for the Deaf in Columbus.

As this poster is planning to go to college, it is important that she take the test, and that it be in a format that allows complete access and comprehension. That involves a little more than simple interpreting.

One of my deaf friend is currently attending to OSD. I thought St. Rita's would be closer to me, But i didn't know that OSD is in columbus, i always thought they were further away.

It sounds more like she's translating what she's reading in order to increase comprehension. It's like a hearing person reading German text and vocalizing it into English for better understanding.

Reba, That's is the exact answer to what i was trying to say. When I read, i have to imagine myself (like daydreaming for example) signing in my head to be able to understand what i'm reading about. I will sometimes sign it as i read, but mostly signing it in my head.

 

[jillio]

I agree, I mean, I feel like it isn't fair to me that other students who knows spanish, french,etc as their primary language and is able to translate it to words that they can understand while i can't.



One of my deaf friend is currently attending to OSD. I thought St. Rita's would be closer to me, But i didn't know that OSD is in columbus, i always thought they were further away.



Reba, That's is the exact answer to what i was trying to say. When I read, i have to imagine myself (like daydreaming for example) signing in my head to be able to understand what i'm reading about. I will sometimes sign it as i read, but mostly signing it in my head.

Well, I have a particular fondness for St. Rita...my son attended. But yes, OSD is in Columbus and easy to get to.

 

[Buffalo]

And spoken English as well. If I recall, St. Rita's was very oral in the 70's and still offers decent speech training.

???? I am an alumna of St. Rita and I went there in 70's. There is only signing. There is no speech therapy in the high school. I don't know about the grade school as I went there only for the high school.

Jillio, is there any speech therapy for the deaf at St. Rita or is that only for those with aphasia?

 

[GrendelQ]

From St. Rita's site, it looks like customized TC, but Jillio would likely know how that works in practice:

Comprehensive Communication Philosophy

We continue to believe that the best way to educate deaf and hard of hearing children is through Comprehensive Communication. This philosophy offers a child every available stimulus for human interaction, including sign language, lip-reading, assistive listening devices, visual aids, and technology.

Every student is different and has his or her own way of learning and communicating. Through the philosophy of Comprehensive Communication, teachers and students are able to choose which method of communication works best for them. This approach to communicating promotes an accepting and positive classroom environment, allowing students to focus their attention on what is really important, learning.

Speech therapy and auditory training are major parts of the comprehensive communication philosophy, as well as using sign language and speech simultaneously. Each student at St. Rita School for the Deaf receives therapy from the staff of certified speech therapists. In addition, unless a child has a cochlear implant, he or she is offered an auditory trainer through the sixth grade to take advantage of any residual hearing.

 

[jillio]

???? I am an alumna of St. Rita and I went there in 70's. There is only signing. There is no speech therapy in the high school. I don't know about the grade school as I went there only for the high school.

Jillio, is there any speech therapy for the deaf at St. Rita or is that only for those with aphasia?

The only speech therapy is for the aphasic students, and the majority of them are in the LOFT preschool program.

And I agree...St. Rita has never been an oral program.

 

[jillio]

From St. Rita's site, it looks like customized TC, but Jillio would likely know how that works in practice:

In practice, because of the students that attend and the wishes of the parents who place their kids in St. Rita, it functions more as a Bi-Bi program academically. Many of the instructors are Deaf and do not voice in the classroom or in interaction with the students.

Of course, they do have the LOFT program aimed at infants and toddlers that uses more of a TC approach than does the actual k-12.

Kids 1-6 may be offered an FM system, but since most have had a bad mainstreaming experience that includes ineffective use of an FM system, they choose not to use it. I never saw a single student using an FM system while my son was at ST. Rita's, and I sat in on classes as well as volunteered in afterschool enrichment programs.

 

[jillio]

Well, for the OGT at least, I'd just check your IEP. If it says written materials should be interpreted to ASL (or ESL or whatever your primary language is), then they should do that, or you could probably sign up to take it at St. Rita's.

Either way, good luck!

This is simply another situation where a deaf students IEP is completely inadequate for the services that are necessary for optimal access to academic material. That is why there are a few of us that are so against mainstreaming. Even in the best of conditions, the IEP is lacking in services specified, and even more lacking in the way those services are provided. At a school for the deaf, administration and faculty are very much aware of what a deaf student needs. When a child attends a school for the deaf, the deaf school is active in deciding what goes into the home school's IEP regarding services, and therefore, the child recieves a better education.

For instance, for my college students I always had them request interpreted testing if they were ASL users. However, until I took the position in disability services, that was never requested. Students coming from the mainstream did not know they could request it, and the mainstream had never written such into an IEP, even if the student had been using a terp. Far too many holes that things get dropped through. And the student is the one to suffer.

 

[coolgirlspyer90]

Well, right now i'm waiting for my OGT results. I took the OGT in march (i believe either the beginning or the end of march, can't really remember) But the school says that the OGT results should be in by either this month or in may. I really hope I pass all 3 sections. And if i don't, well i'll be extremely mad, and i don't want to have to go through all the OGT legal crap about having an interpreter interpret for me, either that or i'm going to have to suffer through it or suck it up and try my best.

 

[Reba]

Well, right now i'm waiting for my OGT results. I took the OGT in march (i believe either the beginning or the end of march, can't really remember) But the school says that the OGT results should be in by either this month or in may. I really hope I pass all 3 sections. And if i don't, well i'll be extremely mad, and i don't want to have to go through all the OGT legal crap about having an interpreter interpret for me, either that or i'm going to have to suffer through it or suck it up and try my best.

Let's wait and see what your test results are before getting worked up over a problem that may not exist.

 

[TheOracle]

I agree, I mean, I feel like it isn't fair to me that other students who knows spanish, french,etc as their primary language and is able to translate it to words that they can understand while i can't.

I think their point is you can read English. No one is asking you to speechread someone for a test.

 

[RoseRodent]

I think their point is you can read English. No one is asking you to speechread someone for a test.

And most students whose native language is Spanish are, by this point in their school career, sufficiently proficient in English that they could take the test in English, but may nominate for preference to take it in Spanish. If you can read English but prefer ASL you are not being given equality with those students.

 

[TheOracle]

And most students whose native language is Spanish are, by this point in their school career, sufficiently proficient in English that they could take the test in English, but may nominate for preference to take it in Spanish. If you can read English but prefer ASL you are not being given equality with those students.

Do you have data for that first statement?

Are they being given this test orally?

My point is this: ASL is very conceptual. If she passed the Written Portion, why worry about science?

 

[TheOracle]

And most students whose native language is Spanish are, by this point in their school career, sufficiently proficient in English that they could take the test in English, but may nominate for preference to take it in Spanish. If you can read English but prefer ASL you are not being given equality with those students.

Hmm This says the kids have to take the English version test:

Do exceptional children and English-limited students have to pass the OGT?

Students whose Individual Education Plan (IEP) excuses them from the consequence of having to pass the OGT may be awarded a diploma. However, federal law (Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 2002) requires every student to take the OGT or an alternate assessment. English-limited students, (those students whose primary language is not English) also must achieve the specified scores on the OGT in order to be awarded a diploma.

So these cries of "unfair!" seem to be unfounded. The OP doesn't have to take the test. The Spanish speaking students have to take the written test. In English. She can read and write in English and passed that portion just fine. English is one of her first languages. I'm not saying ASL wouldn't be easier. I'm just not sure why she should be entitled to a terp.

 

[Reba]

This says the kids have to take the English version test....

That's not the way I read it.

"Students whose Individual Education Plan (IEP) excuses them from the consequence of having to pass the OGT may be awarded a diploma. However, federal law (Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 2002) requires every student to take the OGT or an alternate assessment. English-limited students, (those students whose primary language is not English) also must achieve the specified scores on the OGT in order to be awarded a diploma."
It just says they must achieve specified scores. It doesn't say that the test must be given in English only. One could achieve the specified scores by taking an ASL or Spanish version of the the test, right?

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

I think their point is you can read English. No one is asking you to speechread someone for a test.

And most students whose native language is Spanish are, by this point in their school career, sufficiently proficient in English that they could take the test in English, but may nominate for preference to take it in Spanish. If you can read English but prefer ASL you are not being given equality with those students.

the students who get translation services would be getting services as "english language learners" and the would have to prove limited english profiency. A deaf person should be able to read english at the same level as a hearing person by high school. Why wouldn't they?