Bomb explosion and shooting in Norway

[jillio]

Of course, it is not fool proof. My point is that if there is least restrictive gun controls, then the idiot like this guy may not be able to achieve as much death as he did if the guns were allowed. There is no such thing as fool proof security.

And yes your right about USA has the highest prison population, this proves that USA laws has failed to serve its purpose.

Gun control really doesn't have effect on crimes like this, or on murder rates in general.

 

[jillio]

I agree with you..... up to a point. This crime was too heinous and massive to allow for rehabilitation. It would be hard even for Norwegians to feel that everything is fine and peachy around this guy after he serves his time.

Insanity is going to come into play on this case. It will affect sentencing, although being in Norway, I am not that well versed on exactly how it will mediate sentencing, etc. But you can bet your boots it will be an issue.

 

[jillio]

Yup I can see it crystal clear, once convicted and put in record, then the opportunites becomes very limited, which makes it alot easier for them to re-offend. Limited opportunity to earn living after prison life which makes it harder to pay bills and other expenses, so it is alot easier for them just go back to prison and not worry about paying bills. That is the real problem.

Right. Our justice system is rehabilitative in name only. In practice, it is punitive, and the effects of that last a lifetime. For both the criminal and society.

 

[jillio]

That's because Norwegians believe people don't habitually re-offend if treated humanely. Hell, they refuse to hand back foreign criminals back to their countries in the name of human rights.

I know he killed so many people, however us North Americans have no say in how they apply their laws.

And they have one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Just because of the way they handle their penal institutions and justice system.

 

[jillio]

Wrong.

It has very little to do with gun control. Most people in Norway owns a gun. Why? They believe it's their right to hunt.

The thing is, no one ever thought someone would use a historical asset in taking grouses, bears and moose as a weapon against the public; so no one really thought they should carry one with them during the off-seasons. For the most part, their history has been void of violence, so people learned to trust each others.

Gun control is an issue that people consistently use as a way to reduce violent crime, yet it has virtually no correlation to crimes of this nature, or murder statistics in general. Murder rates are not reduced by gun control, nor are violent crimes in general.

 

[Jiro]

Forget the religious issue, it is not the real problem. The real problem is gun control. This scumbag took huge advantage that no one around has gun to kill him in order to defend themselves. Supposely there is no strict gun laws where norway requires owner to lock the gun and put away. Then that scumbag will think twice before shooting.

Just think for a moment, like I said if everyone on that island has gun, this probably won't be this bad.

Of course, it is not fool proof. My point is that if there is least restrictive gun controls, then the idiot like this guy may not be able to achieve as much death as he did if the guns were allowed. There is no such thing as fool proof security.

And yes your right about USA has the highest prison population, this proves that USA laws has failed to serve its purpose.

Gun control really doesn't have effect on crimes like this, or on murder rates in general.

correct. look at Arizona shooting and Senator Giffords was shot in the head. This happened in.... gun-friendly state.

why would people be packing some heat to a youth camp on some island? Even if I live in gun-friendly state like Arizona or Texas, I wouldn't be carrying firearm all the time.

It is fine for people to assume that some of us are armed which can serve as a deterrent but I don't think it's healthy to assume that one day... some lunatic is gonna open fire on us.

 

[jillio]

Just did the math, the deaths amount up to almost twice as 9/11 deaths per captia.

And you guys who scream for the death penalty are the problem of America.

There's a reason (actually several) countries like France, Denmark, Sweden, and Ireland has a murder rate 1/5th of the USA, and Norway at almost 1/10th of ours. (Spain, Greece, Germany, Switzerland are in between of 1/5-1/10th)

Now Diehardbiker.. This is 1 person. Its not a failed gun control.

NOWWWWWWWWWWW Let me show you guys a Norwegian prison so you guys can have something else to be "mad at"....

This is a prisoner:

Enjoy.

Don't believe me??? Look up Bastoy Prison.

Wow! Thanks for doing the math on that one! It doesn't surprise me in the least, however.

 

[jillio]

correct. look at Arizona shooting and Senator Giffords was shot in the head. This happened in.... gun-friendly state.

why would people be packing some heat to a youth camp on some island? Even if I live in gun-friendly state like Arizona or Texas, I wouldn't be carrying firearm all the time.

It is fine for people to assume that some of us are armed which can serve as a deterrent but I don't think it's healthy to assume that one day... some lunatic is gonna open fire on us.

No it isn't. That is what leads to innocent people being killed as a result of paranoia.

And the fact of the matter, the person executing the attack has the advantage because of the element of surprise. Before it registers what is actually happening, many people are already dead.

 

[Jiro]

No it isn't. That is what leads to innocent people being killed as a result of paranoia.

And the fact of the matter, the person executing the attack has the advantage because of the element of surprise. Before it registers what is actually happening, many people are already dead.

and chance is - a legally-armed citizen would be mistakenly shot by police.

 

[jillio]

and chance is - a legally-armed citizen would be mistakenly shot by police.

Right.

 

[Royale]

A fundamentalist protestant would never want the church to revert back to Catholocism .... keep in mind, Catholics are the liberals, protestants are the "scary right wingers".

I am more and more inclined to believe that he was labelled a fundamentalist purely for political reasons.

Not all Catholics are liberals. I am Catholic and I am not a liberal or left-wing. I am in middle of both conservative and liberal ideologies.

Many of my Catholic relatives and friends are conservatives or moderates. Even some protestants that I know in real life well are liberals.

It is the best thing not to assume which political ideology they belong to or believe in.

 

[deafskeptic]

And they have one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world. Just because of the way they handle their penal institutions and justice system.

This thread actually has me rethinking the death penalilty and I should note that I don't favor it for most murder cases.. Norwegian prisons don't even look like prisons. I hope prison life is not as brutal as our prison system (prisoners raping each other and all).

 

[jillio]

This thread actually has me rethinking the death penalilty and I should note that I don't favor it for most murder cases.. Norwegian prisons don't even look like prisons. I hope prison life is not as brutal as our prison system (prisoners raping each other and all).

Prisoners behave as brutally as they do in U.S. prisons because they are placed into a brutal environment. They have to be brutal for survival.

 

[deafskeptic]

mm I guess that's a given.

 

[Steinhauer]

Is 'Christian fundamentalist' label correct for Norway terror suspect? – CNN Belief Blog - CNN.com Blogs

"But he doesn't seem to have any insight into Christian theology or any ideas of how the Christian faith should play any role in Norwegian or European society," Buck wrote in an email message. "His links to Christianity are much more based on being against Islam and what he perceives of as 'cultural Marxism.'"

"He was a flaky extremist who might as well have claimed to be fighting for the honor of Hogwarts as for the cause of Christ," said Philip Jenkins, a Pennsylvania State University professor who studies global religion and politics, describing the suspected Norway attacker. "He did not represent a religious movement. ... People should not follow that Christian fundamentalist red herring."

 

[diehardbiker]

Yes it does. Washington DC had finally relaxing gun control, the crime has plummet right after.
WHile in England, they have strength their strict on gun control, and now their crime rate has gone though the roof.

Gun control really doesn't have effect on crimes like this, or on murder rates in general.

 

[Jiro]

Yes it does. Washington DC had finally relaxing gun control, the crime has plummet right after.
WHile in England, they have strength their strict on gun control, and now their crime rate has gone though the roof.

Even though Supreme Court has repealed DC's gun ban... it's still not that good. It's still extremely restrictive.

and you can't really compare England and America. Better to compare American states.

 

[Steinhauer]

No it isn't. That is what leads to innocent people being killed as a result of paranoia.

And the fact of the matter, the person executing the attack has the advantage because of the element of surprise. Before it registers what is actually happening, many people are already dead.

In this particular case Jillio, I have to agree that if anyone had been armed on that tiny island, the shooter would not have had uninhibited free reign to go on his shooting spree for an hour and a half.

Norwegians have always thought they were immune to terrorist attacks. Their security forces did not take the threat seriously .... ever. Their police often do not carry firearms. I am wondering if the officer that was killed on the island was armed? The one where Breivik got the uniform from.

I am sure this whole event will force theNorwegian government to review their current stance on terrorism.

 

[jillio]

Even though Supreme Court has repealed DC's gun ban... it's still not that good. It's still extremely restrictive.

and you can't really compare England and America. Better to compare American states.

Exactly. It is cultural attitiudes and and sociological conflicts within that culture that elevate or reduce the incidence of crime.

 

[jillio]

In this particular case Jillio, I have to agree that if anyone had been armed on that tiny island, the shooter would not have had uninhibited free reign to go on his shooting spree for an hour and a half.

Norwegians have always thought they were immune to terrorist attacks. Their security forces did not take the threat seriously .... ever. Their police often do not carry firearms. I am wondering if the officer that was killed on the island was armed? The one where Breivik got the uniform from.

I am sure this whole event will force theNorwegian government to review their current stance on terrorism.

I will not speak on what Norwegians think as I am not in contact directly with Norwegians. However, in a society that is as progressive in other domains as is the Norwegian society, I find it hard to believe that they are completely unaware of terrorists attacks. But I would suggest they have termed this more correctly as to what it actually is...the act of a lone, deranged perpetrator rather than the philopsophy of a group. Only by being connected to a group philosophy is it an act of terrorism against the Norwegian society.