Arizona to Secede?

[Jiro]

why aren't you?

I already did. That's why I'm lucid

when you go to sleep, let your subconscious mind ponder on why the founding fathers have never made a clear language on secession issue.

Here's a little hint - because they never envisioned the thought that "United States of America" would dissolve and be divided. They believed in unison, not disunity... hence - the US Constitution. Declaration of Independence. If we let secession happen, then we are no different from USSR.

So are you a communist?

 

[Jiro]

In Defense of the Constitution: Scalia and Secession

what about it? Tell me in your own word so I can see you understand it or not.

 

[Steinhauer]

I already did. That's why I'm lucid

when you go to sleep, let your subconscious mind ponder on why the founding fathers have never made a clear language on secession issue.

Here's a little hint - because they never envisioned the thought that "United States of America" would dissolve and be divided. They believed in unison, not disunity... hence - the US Constitution. Declaration of Independence. If we let secession happen, then we are no different from USSR.

So are you a communist?

Actually, you need to reassess your evaluation. The founding fathers addressed this very issue ... after all, didn't they just fight a war against an oppressive government?

 

[Jiro]

Actually, you need to reassess your evaluation. The founding fathers addressed this very issue ... after all, didn't they just fight a war against an oppressive government?

who? the British?

 

[Jiro]

you do realize that if you keep spouting about "Founding Fathers" and "Constitution"... you are referring to the United States of America.... not an individual state.

I'm sorry but you cannot just secede from USA and then copy the US Constitution, American history, etc. as State Constitution. That is unpatriotic and un-American.

when you secede from USA,
You no longer identify yourself as American.
You no longer share American value.
You no longer share with the heritage (the first family generation in America).
You no longer share with American history.
You no longer extend respect for our men and women in uniform who are fighting for America

 

[Steinhauer]

you do realize that if you keep spouting about "Founding Fathers" and "Constitution"... you are referring to the United States of America.... not an individual state.

I'm sorry but you cannot just secede from USA and then copy the US Constitution, American history, etc. as State Constitution. That is unpatriotic and un-American.

when you secede from USA,
You no longer identify yourself as American.
You no longer share American value.
You no longer share with the heritage (the first family generation in America).
You no longer share with American history.
You no longer extend respect for our men and women in uniform who are fighting for America

Re-read my post above, I broke down what the Constitutional Scholar said .... in nitty, gritty detail. I can even draw pictures and make it a coloring book.

He said that states are permitted to secede. Constitutionally too ...

Still feeling like posting silly pictures?

I am too tired ... yawn till later man.

 

[Jiro]

Re-read my post above, I broke down what the Constitutional Scholar said .... in nitty, gritty detail. I can even draw pictures and make it a coloring book.

He said that states are permitted to secede. Constitutionally too ...

Still feeling like posting silly pictures?

I am too tired ... yawn till later man.

No. No. No.

his coloring book does not match with your coloring book anyway

 

[Steinhauer]

No. No. No.

his coloring book does not match with your coloring book anyway

ok ... just when I thought I was out .... the disillusioned one drags me back in (I am kidding)

You got to ask your questions and state your points. I listened to what you were saying between the rhetoric; now let me ask you one.


If the Federal Government imposed restrictions on individual liberty, should states just go along with it?

and yes. YES .... YES

States have the right to secede.

or rather ... depart

or rather...

withdraw

So says the expert Constitutional Scholar.

But then again, our founding fathers should have just gone along with British control of the colonies ... things would be much different if they did (being sarcastic).

 

[Jiro]

ok ... just when I thought I was out .... the disillusioned one drags me back in (I am kidding)

You got to ask your questions and state your points. I listened to what you were saying between the rhetoric; now let me ask you one.


If the Federal Government imposed restrictions on individual liberty, should states just go along with it?

and yes. YES .... YES

States have the right to secede.

or rather ... depart

or rather...

withdraw

So says the expert Constitutional Scholar.

But then again, our founding fathers should have just gone along with British control of the colonies ... things would be much different if they did (being sarcastic).

not again... another silly hypothetical question? the answer is no Federal Government would not impose restrictions on individual liberty. if it did - it would be ruled as unconstitutional at later date... hence Disaster Recovery Personal Protection Act. hence President Reagan's letter regarding internment of American citizens. hence DC gun ban.

btw - see my post #148. How's that Supreme Court word over Constitution scholar?

 

[yizuman]

Texas gave up their right to sucede. Check the archives. They signed it away. Bye, bye, now. Gone. Can't claim the right no more.

Says you, they never did such a thing.

In other words, prove it. In documentation, not some website that says so.

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

Says you, they never did such a thing.

In other words, prove it. In documentation, not some website that says so.

Yiz

prove it? the original document with signature's probably at museum right now.

 

[Foxrac]

ZERO of states can secede from USA, period.

 

[yizuman]

a screenwriter wrote a letter to 9 Supreme Court judges to ask a hypothetical question about state secession.



and Supreme Court Judge Antonin Scalia replied back -

so good luck with your attempt to secede from USA

They're just words from Judges, they did not provide any documentations to back it up. It's just a letter response that I just see.

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

They're just words from Judges, they did not provide any documentations to back it up. It's just a letter response that I just see.

Yiz

you do realize that the "words" from US Supreme Court Judges pretty much determines the fate of America? and determines the interpretation of the Constitution? You do realize that this is the judicial branch?

 

[yizuman]

prove it? the original document with signature's probably at museum right now.

Well if that's the case, a copy of it would be online, just a copy of the United States Constitution is online. So where is the documentations that backs up what the Judge says?

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

Well if that's the case, a copy of it would be online, just a copy of the United States Constitution is online. So where is the documentations that backs up what the Judge says?

Yiz

here - An Ordinance, Declaring the Ordinance of Secession Null and Void March 15, 1866

Be it ordained by the people of Texas in Convention assembled, That we acknowledge the supremacy of the Constitution of the United States, and the laws passed in pursuance thereof; and that an Ordinance adopted by a former Convention of the people of Texas on the 1st day of February, A.D. 1861, entitled "An Ordinance to Dissolve the Union between the State of Texas and the other States, united under the compact styled 'Constitution of the United States of America,'" be and the same is hereby declared null and void; and the right heretofore claimed by the State of Texas to secede from the Union, is hereby distinctly renounced. Passed 15th March, 1866.

SOURCE:
The Constitution of the State of Texas, as Amended by the Delegates in Convention Assembled, Austin, 1866. Austin: Printed at the Southern Intelligencer Office, 1866, p. 32.

Narrative History of Texas Annexation

Texans voted in favor of annexation to the United States in the first election following independence in 1836. However, throughout the Republic period (1836-1845) no treaty of annexation negotiated between the Republic and the United States was ratified by both nations.

When all attempts to arrive at a formal annexation treaty failed, the United States Congress passed--after much debate and only a simple majority--a Joint Resolution for Annexing Texas to the United States. Under these terms, Texas would keep both its public lands and its public debt, it would have the power to divide into four additional states "of convenient size" in the future if it so desired, and it would deliver all military, postal, and customs facilities and authority to the United States government. (Neither this joint resolution or the ordinance passed by the Republic of Texas' Annexation Convention gave Texas the right to secede.)

In July 1845, a popularly-elected Constitutional Convention met in Austin to consider both this annexation proposal as well as a proposed peace treaty with Mexico which would end the state of war between the two nations, but only if Texas remained an independent country.

The Convention voted to accept the United States' proposal, and the Annexation Ordinance was submitted to a popular vote in October 1845. The proposed Annexation Ordinance and State Constitution were approved by the Texas voters and submitted to the United States Congress.

The United States House and Senate, in turn, accepted the Texas state constitution in a Joint Resolution to Admit Texas as a State which was signed by the president on December 29, 1845. Although the formal transfer of government did not occur until February 19, 1846, Texas statehood dates from the 29th of December.

Opposition to Texas' admission to the United States was particularly strong in the North during this period. If a challenge to the constitutionality of the move could have been made successfully at that time, there is little doubt that the leaders of the opposition would have instituted such a suit in the Supreme Court.

Narrative by Jean Carefoot
Texas State Library and Archives Commission April 1997

Conclusion - it supported Jillio's statement below

Texas gave up their right to sucede. Check the archives. They signed it away. Bye, bye, now. Gone. Can't claim the right no more.

Any more question?

 

[yizuman]

you do realize that the "words" from US Supreme Court Judges pretty much determines the fate of America? and determines the interpretation of the Constitution? You do realize that this is the judicial branch?

A Judge is not above the law nor the Constitution. If what you're saying is true, that tantamounts to Dictatorship or Tyranny. The Government is supposed to be for the people, not the people for the Government.

Yiz

 

[Jiro]

A Judge is not above the law nor the Constitution. If what you're saying is true, that tantamounts to Dictatorship or Tyranny. The Government is supposed to be for the people, not the people for the Government.

Yiz

uh............................ I'm going to give you a chance to redeem yourself. Think very hard about what you just said there.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

I think people are misunderstanding why the United States broke ties with the British.

 

[yizuman]

Wirelessly posted

I think people are misunderstanding why the United States broke ties with the British.

Exactly, otherwise we'd still be under British rule under the thumb of a King and his donkey. :P (Queen actually, but speaking in future terms, hint: Charles and his donkey "tabloid term for his current wife")

Yiz