"Are you Saved"

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I think Beowulf hits it pretty close to what I am saying. Yes, Jesus definitely called people to follow him on a very special journey, but I don't think this journey was about "personal salvation through Christ" as much as it was about following his example of kindness, charity, and most of all - unconditional love.

I just can't see God punishing good people who just don't happen to have been exposed to Christian concepts, or for whatever reason, choose not to "be Christian", but still act in love, kindness, tolerance and charity.

To me, it is similar to the paradigmn of circumcision. In the ancient days, circumcision was the mark of the covenant with God. But it was the covenant that was important, not the cicumcision. The circumcision was simply an outward sign, but as believers know, it does not require a circumcision to have a relationship with God. What Paul spoke about is how we elevated the mark to be more important than the covenant itself - like saying the wedding ring is somehow more important than the marriage.

It is our behavior that is important to God - that we act with compassion. The examples of this in the Bible are so numerous as to be unable to count, but there are relatively few passages where we are admonished to "be saved" in the way you describe. We are asked to have trust and faith in God, and to accept being guided by him each day, but beyond that, most everything we are asked is about behaving well, so to speak. That's my personal interpretation in any case.
 
Morrigan--I agree totally with you.

Think of this: to condemn people because of the time and place in which they were born (circumstances which the person could not control), OR because the people who claimed to represent Christianity were cruel to a person--especially if that was most of their exposure--would be a form of entrapment on the part of God, and I do NOT believe He would do that. It would be unjust--that simple. And God is NOT unjust. I believe that He knows who is genuinely seeking Him and who is not. And I DON'T think that always falls into a genuinely seeking = "Christian label" and not genuinely seeking = "pagan label".
 
MorriganTait said:
...Yes, Jesus definitely called people to follow him on a very special journey, but I don't think this journey was about "personal salvation through Christ" as much as it was about following his example of kindness, charity, and most of all - unconditional love.
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Jesus asks us to follow His example after we have accepted Him as Savior.


To me, it is similar to the paradigmn of circumcision. In the ancient days, circumcision was the mark of the covenant with God. But it was the covenant that was important, not the cicumcision. The circumcision was simply an outward sign, but as believers know, it does not require a circumcision to have a relationship with God.
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The outward sign for believers now is baptism. Baptism doesn't save anyone or remove sins. Baptism is the public sign that a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Savior.


... but there are relatively few passages where we are admonished to "be saved" in the way you describe. ..
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If God says something even once, that is enough.

Jesus said:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
 
Reba said:
Jesus asks us to follow His example after we have accepted Him as Savior.

The outward sign for believers now is baptism. Baptism doesn't save anyone or remove sins. Baptism is the public sign that a person has accepted Jesus Christ as Savior.

If God says something even once, that is enough.

Jesus said:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 5:34 But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved.

John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
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:gpost: And I totally agree! Jesus has also said that He is THE ONLY WAY to God and no one else will see Him without going that route. There's only one way, folks. Plain and simple.
 
All spiritual masters throughout history state that their ways are the proper paths. None of them, however, said that he was the ONLY way. Neither did Jesus. Take some remedial reading courses, couldn't hurt.
:)
 
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
 
Reba said:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Right. I couldn't agree more.
He is not the only one I agree with, though. There were others.
Show me where He says He is the ONLYway.
 
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He didn't say "a" way, or "one of many" ways; He said "the" way--"the" means one and only.
 
Have you studied any of the text in its original form? It's a bit hard to conjecture on the "true meaning" of a particular passage without a grasp of classical Greek (in which most of the New Testament was originally penned).
 
Beowulf said:
All spiritual masters throughout history state that their ways are the proper paths. None of them, however, said that he was the ONLY way. Neither did Jesus. Take some remedial reading courses, couldn't hurt.
:)
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And the last time I checked, Beowulf, each of those spiritual masters are dead and are STILL in the grave. But, the difference is that Jesus Christ is no longer in the grave, He arose from the dead, according to the scriptures. :thumb:
 
MorriganTait said:
Have you studied any of the text in its original form? It's a bit hard to conjecture on the "true meaning" of a particular passage without a grasp of classical Greek (in which most of the New Testament was originally penned).
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Yes, I have. I've also been in the Christian ministry. Have you studied any of the text, Morrigan Tait?
 
Reba said:
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

He didn't say "a" way, or "one of many" ways; He said "the" way--"the" means one and only.
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Amen, sister Reba!! :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
 
He STILL doesn't necessarily say that.
Let me give you an example, say, the ever-trustworthy parable to explain...
One day a preacher was walking down a country road when he notices a farmer sitting in a field, eating cow manure.
The preacher asks, "What are you doing?"
The farmer replies, "Well, I am looking for a way to the Kingdom of Heaven, and I figure if they worship cows somewhere as I've heard, if I eat enough of their manure, I got it made."
The preacher shakes his head and chides, "No, I am the way, the truth, the life blah blah blah..."
The preacher certainly didn't mean that HE PERSONALLY was the way, just his method.
IMO, that is exactly what Jesus meant.
:)
 
pek1 said:
Yes, I have. I've also been in the Christian ministry. Have you studied any of the text, Morrigan Tait?
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So, you are fluent in classical Greek?

I never claimed the text was saying one specific thing or another. I personally find taking small portions of Biblical text out of context rarely leads to the whole meaning of an entire passage, or an entire ministry for that matter.
 
pek1 said:
And the last time I checked, Beowulf, each of those spiritual masters are dead and are STILL in the grave. But, the difference is that Jesus Christ is no longer in the grave, He arose from the dead, according to the scriptures.
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You may accept this as "truth" yet you have no more evidence of your claim than the claims of any other religion. You believe it - that's YOUR truth. Other people believe other stuff - that's THEIR truth. No one has a more valid claim to "truth" than anyone else when speaking of spiritual matters.
 
All what I want say here is:

I beleive is we know how to save ourselves and save for our family life. It´s US...
 
Beowolf, what other said is right. Jesus is THE Way THE Life THE Truth. There are many spiritualist pointing out of all kinds and many has worshop the dead. But, we worship the Living Lord, which is the only grave is empty. But finding other way than Jesus, be very regrettable. The reason how I know Jesus is real, is my experience. Other religions has experience too, but which they try to fill the void, which not, christians who rely on Him totally, their void been filled. I asked many other religions, and none have what christians have. U may ask why, most been said, they rather keep the tradition with their family. Some are very close to have christ, but decide not to, bec fear losing families. Jesus doesn't force them, neither do I. Baptism is a symbolic of death, burial and resurrection. Not slavation, only salvation is have Jesus Christ in ur life. Yes, Jesus teaching our repsonsibilties of our example, yes, many christians made a mistakes, bec doing their own efforts and other reasonings. Confessing is the christians responsible to do. As it said, practice godliness, that's must be by the help of the holy spirit and many look at problems instead of looking at God above problems. Each believers are on different paths, but all of their path is heading heavenbound. Each believer will be judge by Christ by their way of life on earth, but not losing salvation. Bec once u have christ in ur life, u r forever His, noone take ur slavation away from u. Paul has described it and so is Jesus. Again Jesus is THE Way THE Life and THE Truth. What He said, He meant it.
 
Whatever floats your boat, hottiedeafboi.
:)
 
Beowulf said:
...The preacher certainly didn't mean that HE PERSONALLY was the way, just his method.
IMO, that is exactly what Jesus meant.
:)
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A preacher is not the way because he is not God.

Jesus is the way because He is God.
 
Reba said:
A preacher is not the way because he is not God.

Jesus is the way because He is God.
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John 10:30
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

38 But if I do, though ye believe me not, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him

Now, it sounds awfully like Jesus was taken aback that they were calling HIM something he never claimed to be.
You are not the only one who can read and "interpret," Reba.
 
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