Are oral dhh folks hypocrites?

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deafdyke

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(By oral, I mean people who have been exposed to BOTH ASL and speech, and have chosen speech as their preferred method of commuication, not nessarily those who have oral skills)
One think I've noticed, is that oral dhh folks are always saying that oral commuication is best, b/c they don't need to depend on an interpreter. Yet at the same time, they complain b/c they claim that things like oral interpreters, ALDs, etc aren't as available as traditional 'terps. Does anyone else think that's kinda strange and or hypocritical of them?
Saying that "Oh CIs and aids are the best....those are the only things you need to function in the world"....and then they get upset b/c there's no real equalivant of 'terps for oral dhh folks. Doesn't that seem really odd?
 
How come they can be hypocrites for bitchin' about lack of services?
Maybe they are complaining because they are not being treated fair and that everybody is focused on D/HH and traditional interpreters. They are disabled as well and they need their services as well.

(I am not oral but I just feel like being a Devil's Advocate!)

But I do understand what you mean-- they act like they can live on their own without an interpreter etc... but there are many technology in their favor-- like a tv being placed in front of the D/HH oral students that films the lipreading of the teacher (or just a hearing person who just repeats everything the teacher says)... no need to train or naything compared to traditional interpreter-- years of schooling, exams to pass and to be certified etc...
 
Perhaps gnarlydorkette hit the nail on the head by stating this quote,

How come they can be hypocrites for bitchin' about lack of services?
Maybe they are complaining because they are not being treated fair and that everybody is focused on D/HH and traditional interpreters. They are disabled as well and they need their services as well.
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One cannot state a dhh person who is oral and chose to use speech as their first method of communication is a hypocrite just because they exercise their right to better communication methods.
 
Cookie Monster said:
Perhaps gnarlydorkette hit the nail on the head by stating this quote,



One cannot state a dhh person who is oral and chose to use speech as their first method of communication is a hypocrite just because they exercise their right to better communication methods.
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Agree with ya.. I'm Deaf and can speak really well.. but I rely on paper writing and interpreters just to understand more clear than say.. "can you repeat again" or "I'm sorry, I don't understand" But lately, I've notice my hearing has dropped and my speech isn't clear anymore. I've had my family telling me that I've changed how I speak and relying on sign language.. I told them that its because none of you learned sign language when I was growing up and I'm at the point of withdrawing myself from them because they don't communicate with me like they do with hearing...

I do somewhat feel offended by some deaf people thinking that I'm a wanna be hearing but I'm not.. I just grew up that way.. and its a habit..
 
That's easy. B/c the attitude is that they have all this freedom and don't need to depend on an interpreter b/c hearing aids and CIs make them equal to hearing people, so they don't need to depend on a 'terp.......but yet they complain and bitch b/c they aren't totally equal in all situtions, and so may need to use expensive/unavailable technology?
 
Oral dhh folks are depressing to watch because they want to believe they're hearing when they're clearly not to everyone around them, but they insist they are. It's almost like being a drag queen; it's OBVIOUS that the person is male, even though they try to look female... (though since they're male-gendered this isn't really a problem).

They're not hypocritical... Just pretending to be something they're not. Hypocrisy would be saying 'I'm deaf' but pretending to be hearing. The type of people you're describing would not generally identify themselves as 'deaf', so they're not being hypocritical... Just masquerading with a facade that separates what they are from everyone else (or is supposed to, anyway).

People who are late-deafened or were raised orally but rejected it when it was possible, are both completely seperate groups who have their own issues removed from the oral deaf and culturally Deaf people.
 
I know of some very lonely and socially immature oral deaf. It is sad, really. No excuse for it.
 
Teresh said:
People who are late-deafened or were raised orally but rejected it when it was possible, are both completely seperate groups who have their own issues removed from the oral deaf and culturally Deaf people.
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I had a friend who was slowly losing her hearing during her teens and early 20s. When I met her she was having a lot of problems because she was really caught between two worlds. She used a TTY and signed well, because she had started early to learn to communicate as a deaf person, but she still felt like a hearing person since the change was so slow. And because she didn't have a "deaf accent" hearing people didn't realize she had any hearing loss, so she had to struggle with their frustration when she was always asking them to repeat themselves or speak louder.

I'm not in touch with her anymore as she moved, but she was a lovely person, not a social misfit by any means, but I think she was also a fairly depressed person. She really didn't fully belong to either the hearing or deaf world, and I don't think she was comfortable with the "hard of hearing" category. She adapted as well as she could to whatever communication she was involved in, and wasn't demanding as deafdyke describes, but I could see how being in that position could make a person behave in a way that seems odd by either culture's standards.
 
deafdyke said:
That's easy. B/c the attitude is that they have all this freedom and don't need to depend on an interpreter b/c hearing aids and CIs make them equal to hearing people, so they don't need to depend on a 'terp.......but yet they complain and bitch b/c they aren't totally equal in all situtions, and so may need to use expensive/unavailable technology?
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Try not to make gross generalisations about CIs and HAs, people who wear CIs & thinking they are just as equal to their hearing counterparts because do you think those CIs would appreciate your comments? How would you feel if you were on the receiving end of such gross generalisations from those who wore HAs and CIs thinking you were trying to masquerade yourself off to be something "with an attitude" and bitching about it just to get better resources?
 
Cookie Monster, I have NOTHING against CIs and hearing aids. I don't think everyone who choses speech is a stuck up type, but it does seem like a lot of AG Bell types go overboard in believeing that there's freedom in listening and talking.....so much that they think that it's perfect for every single sittuion....but when they come on a sittuion that's not perfect for talking and listening, they are all....."Oh no, we NEED speshal things to get along in day to day life......but oh GAWD, isn't it nice that we don't have to depend on an "ASL 'terp?"
 
deafdyke said:
Cookie Monster, I have NOTHING against CIs and hearing aids. I don't think everyone who choses speech is a stuck up type, but it does seem like a lot of AG Bell types go overboard in believeing that there's freedom in listening and talking.....so much that they think that it's perfect for every single sittuion....but when they come on a sittuion that's not perfect for talking and listening, they are all....."Oh no, we NEED speshal things to get along in day to day life......but oh GAWD, isn't it nice that we don't have to depend on an "ASL 'terp?"
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deafdyke, growing up from a 6th generation Deaf family and with the fortune of being mainstreamed in the hearing world too as well, don't you think it is inappropiate to be using such terminologies such as "AG Bell types" because it further excaburates a situation when a person who is d/Deaf labels another person with terminologies such as "AG Bell". My only question for you, just how do you know that those people you eloquently call "AG Bell" go overboard thinking life is beautiful when they have their speaking and listening capabilities almost down to pat? Maybe those individuals are struggling just as their d/Deaf counterparts are, have you entertained this notion?
 
Cookie Monster,
you misunderstand me....... I am NOT bashing those with oral skills......Up til a few years ago, I was pretty much oral myself. As a matter of fact, I think that the Deaf community could do SO much more in terms of outreach, to those who grew up without Sign. Looking down on someone just b/c their parents bought into Pollack's/Ling's/Moog's/Geers'/fill in the blank here with Name of Promient Pro-Oral Educator, is something I find incredibily DUMB!
It's not a kid's fault that they were raised orally. I am NOT painting all folks with oral skills with a broad brush. There are some kids who started out with TC and have dropped the signs b/c of an implant or whatever. There are some kids who have been exposed to both, and who choose to speak, instead of sign. And then there are kids who were raised orally, who will learn ASL as a second language. But there does seem to be a subset of AG Bellers who look down on ASL and who are all almost.....chaunavistic about the fact that they have oral skills and are a part of the hearing world. Not all kids with oral skills are like that, but there does seem to be a subtype....and that subtype seems to be the kind that is always complaining that there's no oral deaf/hoh equalivant of an interpreter out there for difficult listening situtions etc.....
 
My most humble apologies, deafdyke. :hug: *eating humble pie here!!* Believe me, I do understand how you mean and what you explained, I do relate with you as I grew up advocating my feelings because I even left another message board that was so militant against ASL as a language and Deaf culture because the majority of the members there viewed it as a cult. I honestly felt cornered & would lash out just to merely defend my beliefs because when you are in the tiny minority (meaning only 3 members that firmly believed in ASL & Deaf Culture) and the other 97 members ( CI militants and so on) would gang up on you daily for your beliefs. The odds aren't in your favour, eh?

I'd offer my feedback and would be open to just about anything. Even my deaf parents firmly believed in all forms of communications ie. TC, SEE, ASL and they firmly believed in Bi-Bi education. My sisters and I were mainstreamed with no interpreters/notetakers. I'd have to admit that my HoH niece & nephew are really reaping the rewards of all the new advanced technology, trials and tribulations of what you and I went through as a youngster.

Imagine how our future generation will even reap the much better rewards now that CI is there however I must admit that I do worry about the possibility of the diminishing of Deaf Culture and the eradiciation of ASL as a language now that CI is available.

I've had people of all ethnicities asking me why I fuss over such a trivial issue (their word!) such as Deaf Culture and ASL, I explain to them "How would you feel if your culture and your nationality was quickly eradicated and/or not recognised?" They can relate.

Keep up with this great rapport, deafdyke, I do enjoy our debates!! ;)
 
deafdyke. It seems to me they're audist, if that's the right term for it. *shrugs*

cookiemonster, I know of the concerns about deaf culture and ASL. But the way I see it, many oral kids will find their way to the deaf community and take up ASL. After all, not all deaf kids in oral program will ever have good speech skills. There'll be some parents looking inward themselves when they see the method they've chosen for their deaf kid isn't necessarily the right one for them and might have to start looking at the alternatives without blindly following the so-called experts.


Not to start an argument. Just stating my opinion. :)
 
I've been hesitating to speak up in this thread, because I am not personally affected by any of this, but I had a very, VERY good friend who was hoh when I was in middle school who had chosen speech for her primary means of communication. She did also have ASL as an option, and I would not say she looked down upon it at all. She is not someone I would describe as a hypocrite or arrogant or anything like that. She was just someone who had made a different choice of what to do with her life, and I think she did so levelheadedly, understanding both the benefits and drawbacks.

I do not think she was a sad, socially-isolated person, either. We spent three years pretty much attached at the hip, and there were others that both of us hung out with, too. I would say that if anything did cause social problems for the two of us, it was intelligence and maturity, two things which are anathema in middle school, for the "crowd". ;)
 
I can relate to this thread. It is very obvious at my workplace. We have three HOH/Deaf who work in the morning shift. Sometimes we have staff meetings, and we have an sign language interpreter for the meeting. I find that kind of silly because whenever I talk with these three, they keep on apologising that they don't know sign language very well. One guy refuses to use sign language, yet we have an interpreter at the meeting? It's really strange. The interpreter for the morning meeting hates me because I can't understand her chronic misspellings and lousy Signed English interpretations. From that point, I've chosen to go to the night meetings with the two other deaf/HOH peeps who work at night. These two sign much better ASL and the interpreters are so much better at nighttime!

I never talk to the guy in the morning, because of his attitude towards sign language. But I was constantly told that he talks through his nose, and that not many people can understand him anyhow. I think it is really sad that such a pride can act as a barrier to communication, as one should really use any forms of communication to get their points across. One system can't work for everyone.
 
kuifje75 said:
I think it is really sad that such a pride can act as a barrier to communication, as one should really use any forms of communication to get their points across. One system can't work for everyone.
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Eloquently said, KootchieBootchie!! :hug:
 
Grin.......thanks Cookie Monster.....Hey, you've known me for AGES now....Would I REALLY vent against ALL kids with oral skills? It does seem like there are some audist types who really buy into that healthy normal/ SO MUCH access to the hearing world rhetoric that their parents get......there are some kids who do really well, but even a lot of the superstars have social issues or language and speech issues.....or like they see the deaf world and think it offers no value or totally lambaste it b/c they are VERY audist and think that the hearing world is some sort of Utopia.
CM, I wouldn't worry about loosing the Deaf World....Yeah, there are some kids who will dump sign or who will never get the benifit of Sign, but some of those kids may never have been able to access thecommunity anyway.
I know some hoh girls who use ASL as a second language! (and their parents are all VERY positive about it!)
 
;) deafdyke, glad you and I are always able to share this rapport. My youngest HoH sister married a hearing man (he's from Chile and speaks fluently Spanish as well.) My sister has made it a firm policy that only the Deaf family members teaches her baby son ASL & the same policy goes for the Spanish-speaking relatives to teach my nephew Spanish so the communication doesn't get screwed up.

The reason why I explained for this, you brought up a good point about this quote,

even a lot of the superstars have social issues or language and speech issues.....or like they see the deaf world and think it offers no value or totally lambaste it b/c they are VERY audist and think that the hearing world is some sort of Utopia.
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I was born and raised with the belief that one must have the best of "both worlds". One cannot be so militant about one's beliefs otherwise one will alienate people and make others not wish to involve themselves with that person in debates.

Mind you, I had such grandoise ideas about how militants and oralists could get along until my bubble was burst. A good friend told me "That's life, move on and don't worry about those people because you have your life."
 
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