Are Drug Users Persecuted?

[sallylou]

DS's father meant that DS was the least loyal member of the family. Loyal family members don't tell the truth. It wasn't a compliment. In dysfunctional families, communication isn't direct. Once you know the family's agenda, you can see the real message.

 

[Berry]

I see. So, people ought to know when they are around addicts? :roll:

This response kind of lost me.

The only people I know who can spot an addict with certainty is another addict.

On the other hand people tell me the damnedest things about themselves.

Probably because I don't care what they did, what they are doing, or what they are going to do so long as they aren't hurting me or those I love.

Not every addict lies and steals. And not every non-addict is honest.

 

[deafskeptic]

... was he lying?

(most honest you, then he's not most honest, therefore he can lie...BUT if he lies about your honesty is he the most honest and therefore can't - wait a minute...)

No.

 

[deafskeptic]

DS's father meant that DS was the least loyal member of the family. Loyal family members don't tell the truth. It wasn't a compliment. In dysfunctional families, communication isn't direct. Once you know the family's agenda, you can see the real message.

Hence why my counseler rolled her eyes when I told her this.

 

[Berry]

I think what Berry is saying is that we need to be aware of and address the social conditions that put all people at greater risk for drug/alcohol abuse and other forms of addictive behaviors.

A mighty tall order.

In this society...danged near impossible. Few see farther than their own noses.:P

We could always start with the most obvious and work our way down.

For instance I have noticed that lack of self respect is a big factor for addicts, especially the more self destructive ones. Thus the POS syndrome.

These are the addicts that are most apt to wind up in jail.

Where all rights, dignity, and respect is ripped away from them.

Now how is that supposed to solve the problem?

 

[Berry]

My dad told me once that I was the most honest member of the family. :P When I told my counseler that she rolled her eyes at what my father said to me.

Not all drug addicts are liars.

I can think of at least two who NEVER lie.

People wish they did.

 

[jillio]

This response kind of lost me.

The only people I know who can spot an addict with certainty is another addict.
On the other hand people tell me the damnedest things about themselves.

Probably because I don't care what they did, what they are doing, or what they are going to do so long as they aren't hurting me or those I love.

Not every addict lies and steals. And not every non-addict is honest.

True. "You spot it you got it", as the saying goes in the 12 step programs.

 

[jillio]

We could always start with the most obvious and work our way down.

For instance I have noticed that lack of self respect is a big factor for addicts, especially the more self destructive ones. Thus the POS syndrome.

These are the addicts that are most apt to wind up in jail.

Where all rights, dignity, and respect is ripped away from them.

Now how is that supposed to solve the problem?

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

 

[DaveM]

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

I have found common ground with you.

On this we can agree.

 

[Berry]

Exactly. Our jails have become the addiction facilities and mental hospitals of our day. Sad.

So if we upped the game just a little bit -- Not a whole lot, mind you, just a tad, and instituted group therapy for ALL inmates twice a day, morning and evening (Under a trained and qualified counselor of course) -- would that not be a BIG step in the right direction?

Thus giving those inmates with issues that can be more easily solved the tools to do so?

 

[HH scientist]

It wasnt long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Currently illegal drug use is considered the mental illness of addiction. Yet costly treatment programs have limited sucess if any. Even with longterm sobriety, the drug cravings never completely go away. For many, relapse is only a matter of time.

That reminds me of the story of the English scientist Alan Turing. He defined the principles for how modern computing works and he was amongst the top scientists in breaking the German code machines during World War II.

He also came to the insight that biological intelligence works according to simple principles (computations) and defined artificial intelligence. He proposed a test for how a computer would be a human being. This is the so-called Turing test that you hear every once a while in the media. For example, when IBM's chess computer Deep Blue defeated the Russian chessmaster Kasparov in 1997, it was said to have been a weaker form of the Turing test.

Later on, Turing was convicted for indecency (homosexuality) and given a choice between imprisonment and hormonal treatment, of which he chose the latter. Due to his conviction, he was sacked from his work (cryptology for the government) and he could not think clearly because of the hormonal treatment (your brain thinks differently if given hormones). Turing was later found dead and it is obvious that the circumstances contributed to his assumed suicide.

Do not forget that Turing's work was vital for the for effort and must have contributed a lot to saving lives. How Turing died is a story of how you kill a true hero.

 

[cmdrwhitewolf]

Do not forget that Turing's work was vital for the for effort and must have contributed a lot to saving lives. How Turing died is a story of how you kill a true hero.

For every hero, there is someone who wants to destroy them for their success. That is what happened here. Sadly, that is how human society seems to function.

 

[deafskeptic]

That reminds me of the story of the English scientist Alan Turing. He defined the principles for how modern computing works and he was amongst the top scientists in breaking the German code machines during World War II.

He also came to the insight that biological intelligence works according to simple principles (computations) and defined artificial intelligence. He proposed a test for how a computer would be a human being. This is the so-called Turing test that you hear every once a while in the media. For example, when IBM's chess computer Deep Blue defeated the Russian chessmaster Kasparov in 1997, it was said to have been a weaker form of the Turing test.

Later on, Turing was convicted for indecency (homosexuality) and given a choice between imprisonment and hormonal treatment, of which he chose the latter. Due to his conviction, he was sacked from his work (cryptology for the government) and he could not think clearly because of the hormonal treatment (your brain thinks differently if given hormones). Turing was later found dead and it is obvious that the circumstances contributed to his assumed suicide.

Do not forget that Turing's work was vital for the for effort and must have contributed a lot to saving lives. How Turing died is a story of how you kill a true hero.

That's sad considering his conbrituations.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Hmm, strikes me in the theme of the 'rich and well off kid' turning to drugs - it might be a case of lack of adversity or stimulation from their environment. And in their attempts to find that stimulation their lacking, they find drugs seem to provide it. Which could help explain why two kids from the same family choose different paths, b/c their coping mechanisms might be different for one thing, and their social explorations in finding stimulation results in different 'answers' to what they feel their missing.

Usually it is the case of "monkey see, monkey do".

Most rich kids are among as rich and bored parents, who does ...what?

Going to or giving out endless cocktails, dinners, parties served with alcohol and most likely intertwined with sniffing cocaine and what not.

Parents give the children the role model to follow.
If all they do is shopping and party, that's what the children do.

I know from articles that Robert Downey Jr parents were openly smoking marijuana in front of his son, and if I remember correctly
they even let him smoke it, too because as his father said "they would be hypocrites if they forbade him doing this yet they were doing it themselves".
We all know how well the turned out for Robert Jr...
He later admitted it was a huge mistake, and regretted it deeply.
To his excuse, it was the sixties or seventies, a lot of people had mistaken ideas of what "freedom" "emancipated" and "progress" mean.

Majority of screwed up celebs children have screwed up parents.


And how does it happen that two kids from the same family may end up totally different?
They may have different coping mechanism, yes.
And they may have ended with different outside environment that showed them different interests than merely material.


Lots of reasons.

And, again, you fail to understand what I said because you don't have a grasp of the issues.

And you are being boring and boring and more boring over again with your unattractive personal attacks...

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

Again with the incorrect and superficial assumptions. **sigh**

And perhaps you are bored because the issues are so far above your level of comprehension.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

And perhaps you are bored because the issues are so far above your level of comprehension.

First, do not judge other people by how you are,

second, just look around, woman - the examples of fallen celebs and other 'rich and bored' - and should I add "troubled"- are around you left and right.
Like I've said before, read any biography or whatever in media
regarding such celebrity, and you can bet you will come upon some dirty family secrets - it's just a COMMON SENSE.

Even one who is not a psychologist but just have a good observational skills can add two to two and figure out four.

Besides, if I am not mistaken wasn't it you who said the following:

Psychologist does a complete history. Psychologist says: "It appears that you have had an underlying depression since childhood. Have you ever been treated for that?"

Sorry, but it distinctly sounds like you here imply that at the root
of addiction there is an emotional distress, at least...?
Why would you do that if there was no need for it?

Clearly, again and again you unwittingly support practically everything I say
Even if you deny it vehemently, you DO support my arguments, lololol

Amid this all, please don't forget I never said ALL addicts become addicts because they ALL had emotional problems stemming from dysfunctional families or abuse or bad parental role model or whatever.

no, I agree that some got involved with drugs innocently enough, and
it got out of control. but that's minority.

Oh, and missed that one before:

Hydromorphine! We call it "De La La" at the pharmacy. Hydromorphine, is some good stuff!! I had it when I had an ectopic pregancy rupture. My SO said he watched my face just melt and droop as they shot it up my viens.
That is one of the top scheduled pain reliever. People only get that when they are in Extreme pain.

personally I hate hydromorphone.
it makes my migraine ten times worse instead of relieving it.


Fuzzy

 

[Babyblue]

First, do not judge other people by how you are,

second, just look around, woman - the examples of fallen celebs and other 'rich and bored' - and should I add "troubled"- are around you left and right.
Like I've said before, read any biography or whatever in media
regarding such celebrity, and you can bet you will come upon some dirty family secrets - it's just a COMMON SENSE.

Even one who is not a psychologist but just have a good observational skills can add two to two and figure out four.

That is quite a judgemental assumption.....or I shall say you are stereotyping... not all rich people go to cocktail parties and snort cocaine.

Read the bold prints and add them up to what you just did.

personally I hate hydromorphone.
it makes my migraine ten times worse instead of relieving it.


Fuzzy

It worked awesome for me. They gave it to me while I was in the hospital, in the IV dosage form.

 

[cmdrwhitewolf]

Like I've said before, read any biography or whatever in media

Fuzzy, I have a problem with using biographies and statements from the media as a source of evidence for anything.
1) You or other individuals can't easily verify their veracity or truthfulness.
2) Most often, those sources are adulterated with more falsities intended to raise their popularity.

Plus, most psychologists can't claim they have complete histories, b/c the individual may withhold information. Instead, they have to develop an hypothesis based on their observed evidence, then formulate a treatment plan to try correct the situation.

Though, in my personal opinion, I think that societies view of what "normal is" is likely incorrect. I think societies view of "Normal" is actually quite rare, and that real normal is actually quite fraught with various problems.

 

[Babyblue]

Fuzzy, I have a problem with using biographies and statements from the media as a source of evidence for anything.
1) You or other individuals can't easily verify their veracity or truthfulness.
2) Most often, those sources are adulterated with more falsities intended to raise their popularity.

Plus, most psychologists can't claim they have complete histories, b/c the individual may withhold information. Instead, they have to develop an hypothesis based on their observed evidence, then formulate a treatment plan to try correct the situation.

Though, in my personal opinion, I think that societies view of what "normal is" is likely incorrect. I think societies view of "Normal" is actually quite rare, and that real normal is actually quite fraught with various problems.

I agree... they tend to dramatize the story more.

 

[jillio]

Fuzzy, I have a problem with using biographies and statements from the media as a source of evidence for anything.
1) You or other individuals can't easily verify their veracity or truthfulness.
2) Most often, those sources are adulterated with more falsities intended to raise their popularity.

Plus, most psychologists can't claim they have complete histories, b/c the individual may withhold information. Instead, they have to develop an hypothesis based on their observed evidence, then formulate a treatment plan to try correct the situation.

Though, in my personal opinion, I think that societies view of what "normal is" is likely incorrect. I think societies view of "Normal" is actually quite rare, and that real normal is actually quite fraught with various problems.

A clear headed person. Yay!