Are Drug Users Persecuted?

[Babyblue]

Yep. Word has it that he not only doctor shopped, he bought on the street, too.

Yup, The problem is.. he had a prescription for it and it is hard to prove he bought from the street.

What he did was illegal all around. He had way too many pain pills and he lost his hearing over it in result. So No pun intended to my Deaf friends... but Karma kicked him right in the ass.

 

[Banjo]

Only if he would have gotten caught today.. with the new laws.....He would have not been able to get them legally.

Don't worry, he'll get himself into trouble with the law again someday.

 

[jillio]

Don't worry, he'll get himself into trouble with the law again someday.

It's only a matter of time.

 

[Doug5]

Good example. And he had several doctors prescribing his stuff.

and what exactly was the problem with him taking all the drugs? No one knew until he got busted.

Dont say because it is against the law. It used to be against the law for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.

I know youre gonna say drug laws have nothing to do with intitutionalized racism, but ironically the drug laws seem to affect/hurt the minorities disproportionatly more compared to whites

 

[jillio]

and what exactly was the problem with him taking all the drugs? No one knew until he got busted.

Dont say because it is against the law. It used to be against the law for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus.

I know youre gonna say drug laws have nothing to do with intitutionalized racism, but ironically the drug laws seem to affect/hurt the minorities disproportionatly more compared to whites

He lied and scammed and manipulated to get them, he committed illegal acts to obtain them and was in possession of amounts that were illegal, he suffered medical consequences by abusing and using in amounts that were far, far greater than recommended doses, and he behaved in erratic ways that were harmful for others.

I am greatly offended that you would compare a brave historical figure like Rosa Parks to Rush Limbaugh, or for that fact, even mention their names in the same post. How insulting to Rosa Parks.

Your comparison of a woman standing up for her rights not to be treated as a second class citizen just because of the color of her skin has virtually nothing to do with the topic of this thread. How dare you even thing of minimizing the fight to obtain Civil Rights for an entire population of deserving citizens with someone like Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, the drug does hurt the minorities disproportionately. It seems that Rosa Parks and the people who admire her still have things to accomplish in the social inequities based on race in this country.

I am beginning to wonder if you are as drug free as you claim to be. Your thinking is terribly muddled for someone who claims to have stopped using opiates.

 

[deafskeptic]

He lied and scammed and manipulated to get them, he committed illegal acts to obtain them and was in possession of amounts that were illegal, he suffered medical consequences by abusing and using in amounts that were far, far greater than recommended doses, and he behaved in erratic ways that were harmful for others.

I am greatly offended that you would compare a brave historical figure like Rosa Parks to Rush Limbaugh, or for that fact, even mention their names in the same post. How insulting to Rosa Parks.

Your comparison of a woman standing up for her rights not to be treated as a second class citizen just because of the color of her skin has virtually nothing to do with the topic of this thread. How dare you even thing of minimizing the fight to obtain Civil Rights for an entire population of deserving citizens with someone like Rush Limbaugh.

Yes, the drug does hurt the minorities disproportionately. It seems that Rosa Parks and the people who admire her still have things to accomplish in the social inequities based on race in this country.

I am beginning to wonder if you are as drug free as you claim to be. Your thinking is terribly muddled for someone who claims to have stopped using opiates.

I would have asked if he was smoking crack. :P

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Actually, cocaine and meth are not physically addicting. Psychologically yes, but that is not physical dependance. The withdrawal symptoms a long term user experiences are psychological, not physical.

I don't believe that.
While cocaine and meth are perhaps not physically addictive the way heroin is, you most certainly still can get physical withdrawal symptoms from them.
Just because is rarer (cocaine) it doesn't mean it never happen.
But withdrawing from cocaine one can have sniffles, nosebleeds, insomnia, muscle twitches.

More common it's with meth where physical symptoms can be:
nausea, tremors, sweating.
Methamphetamine Effects - The Short-Term and Long-Term Effects of Methamphetamine

Most certainly can do that marijuana. I have seen person withdrawing from it
so I can say what was happening- the shakes, the cold sweats.
It was there. Plain in sight.

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

I don't believe that.
While cocaine and meth are perhaps not physically addictive the way heroin is, you most certainly still can get physical withdrawal symptoms from them.
Just because is rarer (cocaine) it doesn't mean it never happen.
But withdrawing from cocaine one can have sniffles, nosebleeds, insomnia, muscle twitches.

More common it's with meth where physical symptoms can be:
nausea, tremors, sweating.
Methamphetamine Effects - The Short-Term and Long-Term Effects of Methamphetamine

Most certainly can do that marijuana. I have seen person withdrawing from it
so I can say what was happening- the shakes, the cold sweats.
It was there. Plain in sight.

Fuzzy

Don't want to believe scientific evidence? Your choice.

You saw something. You did not see physical withdrawal symptoms from a physiological phenonmena of addiction.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Don't want to believe scientific evidence? Your choice.

may I point out physical evidence changes, sometimes quite fast?
Today it says one thing tomorrow the other.
yesterday we were being cured with lead, today we are being told it's toxic.
I would warn against blindly bowing to everything what "scientific evidence" says.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few weeks, few months, few years from today
a JAMA or other medical journal published that other drugs can, and do in fact,
cause physical dependence, too and physical withdrawal.

I think we have plenty of proof how the medical profession recanted their stance on things in the past up to date.

You saw something. You did not see physical withdrawal symptoms from a physiological phenonmena of addiction.

I know what I saw.
I saw a person who is a chronic marijuana user going thru w withdrawal which manifested by hands shaking, slight body tremors,
sweating profusely while feeling cold at the same time.
All the symptoms disappeared as soon as he got his hit.

What more proof do you need?


Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

may I point out physical evidence changes, sometimes quite fast?
Today it says one thing tomorrow the other.
yesterday we were being cured with lead, today we are being told it's toxic.
I would warn against blindly bowing to everything what "scientific evidence" says.

I wouldn't be surprised if in a few weeks, few months, few years from today
a JAMA or other medical journal published that other drugs can, and do in fact,
cause physical dependence, too and physical withdrawal.

I think we have plenty of proof how the medical profession recanted their stance on things in the past up to date.


Doesn't change the facts regarding which substances are physically addicting and which aren't.

JAMA may discover that a new medication on the market has the potential for the user to develop tolerance, and thus physical dependence from extended use, but as for cocaine and meth. Those studies have already been done. They have found many negative effects. True physiological dependance is not one of them.

I know what I saw.
I saw a person who is a chronic marijuana user going thru w withdrawal which manifested by hands shaking, slight body tremors,
sweating profusely while feeling cold at the same time.
All the symptoms disappeared as soon as he got his hit.

What more proof do you need?


Fuzzy

Doesn't change the facts regarding which substances are physically addicting and which aren't.

JAMA may report that a new medication on the market has the potential for the user to develop tolerance, and thus physical dependence from extended use, but as for cocaine and meth. Those studies have already been done. They have found many negative effects. True physiological dependance is not one of them.

I certainly need something more than your anecdote about something you have observed. You have no expertise in the field, therefore your observations mean nothing. However, all of the scientific studies that have been done on the topic are completed by people who do have expertise. Let's see......something Fuzzy thought she saw or supported medical and scientifiic evidence? Believe I'll take the latter.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Those studies have already been done.

And .... ??

Since when this mean the end of the subject?
Studies were done, and then re-done.
And often after re-doing, previous statements were recanted.

For example, ever heard of H.Pylori and its correlation to stomach ulcers?

First it was said it has nothing to do with stomach ulcers,
now that it has everything to do with it.

Studies done, redone, done, redone...

And I am not so clueless when it comes to narcotics as you think.

Also, if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, looks like a duck...
what it possibly could be???



Fuzzy

 

[Beowulf]

And .... ??

Since when this mean the end of the subject?
Studies were done, and then re-done.
And often after re-doing, previous statements were recanted.

For example, ever heard of H.Pylori and its correlation to stomach ulcers?

First it was said it has nothing to do with stomach ulcers,
now that it has everything to do with it.

Studies done, redone, done, redone...

And I am not so clueless when it comes to narcotics as you think.

Also, if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, looks like a duck...
what it possibly could be???



Fuzzy

Stage fright? You listed all the symptoms.

 

[jillio]

And .... ??

Since when this mean the end of the subject?
Studies were done, and then re-done.
And often after re-doing, previous statements were recanted.

For example, ever heard of H.Pylori and its correlation to stomach ulcers?

First it was said it has nothing to do with stomach ulcers,
now that it has everything to do with it.

Studies done, redone, done, redone...

And I am not so clueless when it comes to narcotics as you think.

Also, if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, looks like a duck...
what it possibly could be???



Fuzzy

H.Pylori was implicated in the presence of specific types of duodenal and gastric ulcers at least 25 years ago. What the hell is your point? That doesn't have anything to do with addiction.

I see you are a very superficial thinker.

I am beginning to believe that you may have quite a bit of first hand experience with narcotics.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

H.Pylori was implicated in the presence of specific types of duodenal and gastric ulcers at least 25 years ago.

Yes, of course, that's the whole point of my point.

This fact about H. Pylori was known for at least half a century, but only recently it was accepted that the actual cause of ulcers are most commonly these bacterial infection and only then started to treat ulcers with antibiotic.

I am giving you this as an example how science changes even with having some fact long at hands.

More over, in the mid 90-ties when I told my dr I noticed stopped having stomach pain after being treated with prolonged course of tetracycline for
stubborn throat infection, she laughed at me saying one had nothing to do!
what do you know, a two or so years later they trumpeted in the news
about H.Pylori - ulcers connection being more important than it was previously thought

I am beginning to believe that you may have quite a bit of first hand experience with narcotics.

You seem to be knowing about them way more than I do....

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

Yes, of course, that's the whole point of my point.

This fact about H. Pylori was known for at least half a century, but only recently it was accepted that the actual cause of ulcers are most commonly these bacterial infection and only then started to treat ulcers with antibiotic.

I am giving you this as an example how science changes even with having some fact long at hands.

More over, in the mid 90-ties when I told my dr I noticed stopped having stomach pain after being treated with prolonged course of tetracycline for
stubborn throat infection, she laughed at me saying one had nothing to do!
what do you know, a two or so years later they trumpeted in the news
about H.Pylori - ulcers connection being more important than it was previously thought




You seem to be knowing about them way more than I do....

Fuzzy

Of course research into disease and its causes advances, Fuzzy. That is what is responsible for the implication of H.Pylori is certain gastric ulcerative conditions. And for any new medical advance. That is why new treatments for many diseases are discovered on a daily basis. That doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

Have you checked the efficacy rates of antibiotic treatment alone on ulcers? You might want to do that before we go any further in this discussion.

We are not discussing gastrointestinal disorders. We are discussing addiction. Try to stick to the topic.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

That doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

lololol

of course it does. I merely pointed out that today's stance on only heroine and opiates and not other drugs giving physical dependence is only today's stance in medicine.

and by using H.Pylori and its connection to ulcer comparison,
I gave you an example how these
"set in stone" authoritative scientific statements of today may change at a drop of hat tomorrow.

We are not discussing gastrointestinal disorders. We are discussing addiction. Try to stick to the topic.

of course not,
I am surprised you can not tell when I am giving you merely an example for comparison while still discussing the subject of drugs, addiction, and withdrawal symptoms

Fuzzy

 

[jillio]

lololol

of course it does. I merely pointed out that today's stance on only heroine and opiates and not other drugs giving physical dependence is only today's stance in medicine.

and by using H.Pylori and its connection to ulcer comparison,
I gave you an example how these
"set in stone" authoritative scientific statements of today may change at a drop of hat tomorrow.




of course not,
I am surprised you can not tell when I am giving you merely an example for comparison while still discussing the subject of drugs, addiction, and withdrawal symptoms

Fuzzy

Do you know how long cocaine and speed have been around, Fuzzy? If there was going to be evidence of the criteria needed to classify them as a physically addictive substance, we would have seen that evidence long before now!

 

[deafskeptic]

Do you know how long cocaine and speed have been around, Fuzzy? If there was going to be evidence of the criteria needed to classify them as a physically addictive substance, we would have seen that evidence long before now!

Here's a hint, Audiofuzzy. What was one of the ingredients of Coca-Cola? There's no documented record of psychical withdrawal from Coca-Cola when one of it's ingredients were made illegal.

 

[deafdyke]

And again, you are not looking at this situation logically. Legalizing drugs does not remove the illegal behavior associated with drug use.

AMEN jillo!!!! One of my friends tried to get a script through a pharmacy with a forged presciption.....and she offered me $500 if I would cover the hundred dollars.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Do you know how long cocaine and speed have been around, Fuzzy?

I think it was also you who pointed out how long H.Pylori was around, too???

The advances are sometimes made way way later, Jillio,
thus making the staunch, established generalized opinions all the harder to
abolish.

For example, for migraine being not psychosomatic but neurological disorder in origin
took the invention of MRI to prove it once and for all merely over a two decades ago.
And migraine was here already a thousands years ago, Jillio.


You never know what may come in the next decade in the field of science of addiction.

Legalizing drugs does not remove the illegal behavior associated with drug use.

But it sure would reduce it vastly.

Fuzzy