Are Drug Users Persecuted?

Doug5 said:
You miss understand my point. Drug use is considered a moral issue like homosexuality was or even still is, to some people.

And what about praying away the gay. That seems very similar to drug users being told they need to find a higher power in order to achieve sobriety.
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praying away the gays. Wow...you are one sick person.
 
jillio said:
You are confusing dependance with addiction. They are not the same.
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Jillio and Babyblue: Your points are well taken, but the deaths occur due to Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome or some other illness which is not caused by alcoholism so much as found in alcoholics:

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome is the best known neurologic complication of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency.

While most often associated with chronic alcoholism, WE occurs also in the setting of poor nutrition caused by malabsorption, poor dietary intake, increased metabolic requirement (eg, during systemic illnesses), or increased loss of the water-soluble vitamin thiamine (eg, in renal dialysis). In one autopsy series, non-alcohol abusers accounted for 12 of 52 cases (23 percent) of WE [8].

In addition:
Mortality (of alchohol withdrawl) — Death usually is due to arrhythmia, complicating illnesses, such as pneumonia, or failure to identify an underlying problem that led to the cessation of alcohol use, such as pancreatitis, hepatitis, or central nervous system injury or infection.[/B]

Yes, you can die, but you can also die of these things if they alone preexist.

Incorrect withdrawl can cause death, but so can incorrect anything.
 
Which is why we need to wean them off the proper way. I know hospitals give alcoholics beer while they are admitted. To keep them suffering from withdrawels while they are in.

If monitored with proper dosing and what not, I am all for the scheduled drugs to be given out to people that needs it.
 
VacationGuy234 said:
Jillio and Babyblue: Your points are well taken, but the deaths occur due to Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome or some other illness which is not caused by alcoholism so much as found in alcoholics:

Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome is the best known neurologic complication of thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency.

While most often associated with chronic alcoholism, WE occurs also in the setting of poor nutrition caused by malabsorption, poor dietary intake, increased metabolic requirement (eg, during systemic illnesses), or increased loss of the water-soluble vitamin thiamine (eg, in renal dialysis). In one autopsy series, non-alcohol abusers accounted for 12 of 52 cases (23 percent) of WE [8].

In addition:
Mortality (of alchohol withdrawl) — Death usually is due to arrhythmia, complicating illnesses, such as pneumonia, or failure to identify an underlying problem that led to the cessation of alcohol use, such as pancreatitis, hepatitis, or central nervous system injury or infection.[/B]

Yes, you can die, but you can also die of these things if they alone preexist.

Incorrect withdrawl can cause death, but so can incorrect anything.
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I'll give you 6 points for knowing how to use Google.

I think you are referring to Korsakoff's Syndrome, aka wet brain. Wernicke's Aphasia is a completely different syndrome and has nothing to do with alcoholism. Korsakoff's leads to alcohol induced dementia. The vast majority of deaths in alcoholics occur due to liver failure, not Korsakoff's Syndrome. Of course, one can suffer from other causes of Korsakoff's Syndrome, but the vast majority of cases are seen in long term, chronic alcoholics. It is found in alcoholics because the ingestion of the alcohol on a chronic basis and in the amounts a chronic alcoholic consumes impairs the body's ability to metabolize vitamins and nutrients properly, and the fact that the chronic alcoholic does not eat properly. Liver damage that occurs with alcoholism also interferes with the metabolic process and contributes to the development of Korskoff's Syndrome. But, the fact still remains, Korsakoff's Syndrome, in and of itself, does not cause death. It causes dementia.

You Googled the correct causes of death from withdrawal, but I fail to see the point you are making. Withdrawal from alcohol addiction is extremely dangerous, and does occur at an alarming rate. It needs to be accomplished under medical supervision.

Nest time, please provide links for the parts of your post that you are copying and pasting.
 
jillio said:
That isn't quite accurate. Tolerance is the reason for most overdoses.
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look up theraputic ratio. Opiates are safer than a lot of legal over the counter drugs.

The user doesnt want to die. They want to get high.
 
jillio said:
What does that have to do with anything? They would never legalize heroin in this country. The best you are going to get is the opiate substitutes like seboxone and methadone.

So you tell me...how does it help anything?
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Heroin isnt a big deal. People can still function on it. They did a trial in the Switzerland where they gave addicts free heroin and supervised their injections with a nurse. No one ODed and lowered criminality. look it up
 
for those of you against legalization, I ask you this. What if god forbid, your daughter became addicted to heroin? It happens all the time to good parents.

Would you want her to get her heroin from some unscrupulous, sociopathic criminal that is constantly thinking of ways to rip her off and keep her hooked? With the price artificially expensive to the point she has to steal or worse yet prostitute herself to get the money for it?

If it was legal, she could get it at walgreens for less than $10. Where she could easily panhandle to get the money. Then she has a easy source for clean needles and knows what the purity is and how much to inject. She is gonna do it anyways, and dont think you can stop her.
 
Doug5 said:
look up theraputic ratio. Opiates are safer than a lot of legal over the counter drugs.

The user doesnt want to die. They want to get high.
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That is why tolerance is the most frequent reason for overdose.:roll: Their tolerance becomes so high that they have to shoot ever increasing amounts of the drug.
 
Doug5 said:
Heroin isnt a big deal. People can still function on it. They did a trial in the Switzerland where they gave addicts free heroin and supervised their injections with a nurse. No one ODed and lowered criminality. look it up
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I daresay I have done intensive study regarding this topic; far more than you yourself have. I find it hysterical that you would tell me to "look it up".:laugh2:

You don't even understand what I am saying in my posts, or Babyblue's for that matter, either.
 
Doug5 said:
for those of you against legalization, I ask you this. What if god forbid, your daughter became addicted to heroin? It happens all the time to good parents.

Would you want her to get her heroin from some unscrupulous, sociopathic criminal that is constantly thinking of ways to rip her off and keep her hooked? With the price artificially expensive to the point she has to steal or worse yet prostitute herself to get the money for it?

If it was legal, she could get it at walgreens for less than $10. Where she could easily panhandle to get the money. Then she has a easy source for clean needles and knows what the purity is and how much to inject. She is gonna do it anyways, and dont think you can stop her.
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As any loving parent. I would put my child in rehab and have her weaned off of heroin and find out the root of the problem and why he/she began to take drugs in the first place.



Is Heroin Safe

A study by the North American Opiate Medication Initiative found that heroin, when supervised and prescribed by a knowledgeable physician, can actually be safe for those addicted to the drug, though not for recreational use. The administration would be a form of therapy designed to allow individuals to stop using the drugs slowly. The results of the research are promising and were published in prestigious, New England Journal of Medicine.

Individuals that are addicted to heroin might be able to benefit from this type of therapy. It would be similar to the use of methadone to wean individuals off of opiates. More then 200 people were studied. The testing sample involved were individuals that had little success with other types of treatment.
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Again...... if it is used to wean the person off of drugs I have no problem with it.

Plus, this method is not for long term use.
 
Doug5 said:
for those of you against legalization, I ask you this. What if god forbid, your daughter became addicted to heroin? It happens all the time to good parents.

Would you want her to get her heroin from some unscrupulous, sociopathic criminal that is constantly thinking of ways to rip her off and keep her hooked? With the price artificially expensive to the point she has to steal or worse yet prostitute herself to get the money for it?

If it was legal, she could get it at walgreens for less than $10. Where she could easily panhandle to get the money. Then she has a easy source for clean needles and knows what the purity is and how much to inject. She is gonna do it anyways, and dont think you can stop her.
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You are suffering under some misconceptions. If the pharmacuetical companies start dispensing heroin, the price will be a great deal more than $10.00. They will elevate the price just like they do with all medications.

Panhandling is illegal. So how are you reducing illegal activity if the addict is STILL engaging in illegal behavior to get their fix? Simple answer: you aren't.

Clean needle programs also provide a source for clean equipment without legalizing heroin. They have been shown to be the most effective harm reduction model around, and do more to reduce the occurance of other social consequences than legalization does.
 
Babyblue said:
As any loving parent. I would put my child in rehab and have her weaned off of heroin and find out the root of the problem and why he/she began to take drugs in the first place.



Is Heroin Safe



Again...... if it is used to wean the person off of drugs I have no problem with it.

Plus, this method is not for long term use.
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Right, this is a maintenance program the same way a seboxone or a methadone program is a maintenance program. The goal is to minimize withdrawal and eventually wean the addict off of the drug, which is accomplished through the tandem use of maintenance program and therapy.

Opiates nor benzos nor alcohol nor any of the more commonly abused drugs were intended for long term use. The physical deterioration that occurs is just too great in long term use, addiction aside.

Also, synthetic opiates like hydrocodone and oxydodone are legal. People still rob pharmacies to get them, and people still purchase them on the street. Legalization does not stop illegal activity associated with substance abuse, obviously. Anyone who thinks it does is simply naive.
 
jillio said:
Right, this is a maintenance program the same way a seboxone or a methadone program is a maintenance program. The goal is to minimize withdrawal and eventually wean the addict off of the drug, which is accomplished through the tandem use of maintenance program and therapy.

Opiates nor benzos nor alcohol nor any of the more commonly abused drugs were intended for long term use. The physical deterioration that occurs is just too great in long term use, addiction aside.

Also, synthetic opiates like hydrocodone and oxydodone are legal. People still rob pharmacies to get them, and people still purchase them on the street. Legalization does not stop illegal activity associated with substance abuse, obviously. Anyone who thinks it does is simply naive.
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Yup, I totally agree.. Pain clinics dispense them like they are candy, and are being shut down left and right while new ones open. It does not stop the illicit activities what so ever.

While I was doing my extern at a Pharmacy, the one down the road got robbed. The robbers took off with the oxycontin and other opiates scheduled II drugs.

Funny thing is....... Oxycodone and hydrocodone are cheaper in the Pharmacy than they are out on the streets.
 
Babyblue said:
Yup, I totally agree.. Pain clinics dispense them like they are candy, and are being shut down left and right while new ones open. It does not stop the illicit activities what so ever.

While I was doing my extern at a Pharmacy, the one down the road got robbed. The robbers took off with the oxycontin and other opiates scheduled II drugs.

Funny thing is....... Oxycodone and hydrocodone are cheaper in the Pharmacy than they are out on the streets.
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Yeah, I know. That is why people dr shop and then sell on the street. Around here, a Vicodin 500mg goes for $5-6 a tablet. Many times, they sell the pain meds and then go buy heroin. The synthetics don't do the job any more, and they have to bump it up to the heroin. Another example of tolerance.
 
jillio said:
Yeah, I know. That is why people dr shop and then sell on the street. Around here, a Vicodin 500mg goes for $5-6 a tablet.
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I bought mine at CVS for 8 dollars. It was for my tooth. I have not needed it for my tooth at all but I did need them for my ulcer in my leg.


I will be happy when it heals so I no longer need to use it. Even when I eat food with it, it can make me feel sick to my stomach. The pain from it has made it very difficult for me to sleep in bed.
 
jillio said:
Yeah, I know. That is why people dr shop and then sell on the street. Around here, a Vicodin 500mg goes for $5-6 a tablet. Many times, they sell the pain meds and then go buy heroin. The synthetics don't do the job any more, and they have to bump it up to the heroin. Another example of tolerance.
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Florida now uses a new computer system that can see if an individule have bought a controlled sustance at another pharmacy. Trying to limit the amount of scheduled drugs getting out on the streets. We have to log any scheduled drugs in the system upon dispensing it to the patient.

The system must work...since we had a person come up to the pharmacy and when we put it in the system a red flag popped up. The person filled the same kind of drug at another pharmacy in the next town over a few days before. So since it got flagged we were not able to dispense her Rx. She was pissed when we told her that she can not get her Rx, since she had the same drug filled at another Pharmacy.
 
deafskeptic said:
I bought mine at CVS for 8 dollars. It was for my tooth. I have not needed it for my tooth at all but I did need them for my ulcer in my leg.


I will be happy when it heals so I no longer need to use it. Even when I eat food with it, it can make me feel sick to my stomach. The pain from it has made it very difficult for me to sleep in bed.
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If you need them, use them. The meds in and of themselves aren't bad.
 
Babyblue said:
Florida now uses a new computer system that can see if an individule have bought a controlled sustance at another pharmacy. Trying to limit the amount of scheduled drugs getting out on the streets. We have to log any scheduled drugs in the system upon dispensing it to the patient.

The system must work...since we had a person come up to the pharmacy and when we put it in the system a red flag popped up. The person filled the same kind of drug at another pharmacy in the next town over a few days before. So since it got flagged we were not able to dispense her Rx. She was pissed when we told her that she can not get her Rx, since she had the same drug filled at another Pharmacy.
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They have started using the same system here, but so far only the larger chains are using it consistently. We have several mom and pop pharmacies that haven't implemented it yet.
 
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