Are Drug Users Persecuted?

[FireTiger]

That quote came from the very long wiccan rede, I have it in poster form but won't post due to lazyness.
It means a lot more than most people think and you really need to think about impacts. past present and future.

Just as an example, I'm not meaning this as an attack.

Your chickens may not be attacking anybody but the smell and/or noise may very well be hurting people in another way that you may not have considered. It should be a topic of conversation with people who live near you to find out if it is actually hurting them and if not or they enjoy the chickens then you should be able to keep them, and if not a compromise could be reached with willing neighbors But sadly the law doesn't work on would, should or could much of the time, the law is a blanket statement.

As far as I'm concerned as long as all parties and those who may be affected are consenting and are of maturity to consent then it should be no problem to do many things.

I was taught as much of the creed as they would as I am not Wiccan-

I actually did go around to all neighbors when the first chicken ended up in a tiny cardboard box on my door... abandoned/dumped (silkie rooster)

Everyone is/was very good with it. Even non adjacent lots to mine as they may be able to hear them.

The animals only smell when this past month it rained 26ish of 30 days... and I couldn't muck it out. Animals are only as dirty as a caretaker lets them be.

They eat pest and bugs, the food is secure from pest and the pen is pest but not bug proof...

Clearly nobody is too worried about them they have been here 4 years now, recently added ducks...

 

[Beowulf]

Dunno if the military ever called it that....but if they did, then it's wrong IMO...again, wouldn't it be the soldier's environment at the time that caused him to turn to drugs/alcohol to avoid all the trauma?...The war environment that he was in?

Have you ever gone through treatment (through treatment centers)? They teach that one is born an addict. That is the simple explanation.

 

[JabberJay]

I was taught as much of the creed as they would as I am not Wiccan-

I actually did go around to all neighbors when the first chicken ended up in a tiny cardboard box on my door... abandoned/dumped (silkie rooster)

Everyone is/was very good with it. Even non adjacent lots to mine as they may be able to hear them.

The animals only smell when this past month it rained 26ish of 30 days... and I couldn't muck it out. Animals are only as dirty as a caretaker lets them be.

They eat pest and bugs, the food is secure from pest and the pen is pest but not bug proof...

Clearly nobody is too worried about them they have been here 4 years now, recently added ducks...

Then perfect, you're a good neighbor. My neighbors could take a page from your book.
*grumbles about kids hitting doors with baseball bats*

 

[rockin'robin]

Have you ever gone through treatment (through treatment centers)? They teach that one is born an addict. That is the simple explanation.

No, I haven't. I've never been a drug addict or an alcoholic...so you say the "treatment centers" or rehabs...."teach you" that you were born an addict?...or brain-wash you into believing it?...If someone was "born an addict", then why aren't other people born that way?...And I don't get the at the end of ur quote...was it supposed to be funny?

 

[Beowulf]

No, I haven't. I've never been a drug addict or an alcoholic...so you say the "treatment centers" or rehabs...."teach you" that you were born an addict?...or brain-wash you into believing it?...If someone was "born an addict", then why aren't other people born that way?...And I don't get the at the end of ur quote...was it supposed to be funny?

No joke. It's the truth. Why would you consider it brainwashing?
It is like the thread about fate, but when you come right down to it, whatever happens is fate, otherwise it wouldn't have happened, know what I mean? But I digress...

 

[Banjo]

No, I haven't. I've never been a drug addict or an alcoholic...so you say the "treatment centers" or rehabs...."teach you" that you were born an addict?...or brain-wash you into believing it?...If someone was "born an addict", then why aren't other people born that way?...And I don't get the at the end of ur quote...was it supposed to be funny?

Genetic predisposition and poor coping skills are two big factors in forming an addiction.

 

[Doug5]

another ironic thing about treatment centers, is they dont send people home drug free. They put people on expensive patented medications. Its not about not taking drugs, its about taking their drugs.

Its like something out of the book 1984.

 

[Jiro]

some people can be born an addict. it only means that some people are predisposed to addiction of any kind.

 

[Doug5]

another ironic thing about treatment centers is they allow addicts to smoke.

 

[rockin'robin]

I know of 2 Rehabs here in Jax that are a crock of shyt...but they are free!...even hook up with each other when they get out...or just decide to walk out, no holes bared...it's voluntarily....As for the Detox, it's about the same (for alcohol)....

 

[Jiro]

another ironic thing about treatment centers is they allow addicts to smoke.

there's nothing ironic about it. it's part of treatment.... in a controlled environment monitored by medical professionals. at least they aren't smoking dirty drug.

in case you didn't know - they can never be completely cured from it. they're hooked onto it for life and to not smoke it, they will die.

 

[Doug5]

there's nothing ironic about it. it's part of treatment.... in a controlled environment monitored by medical professionals. at least they aren't smoking dirty drug.

in case you didn't know - they can never be completely cured from it. they're hooked onto it for life and to not smoke it, they will die.

didnt realize smoking cigarettes is clean.

But you make my point. If addicts are to fall off the wagon, shouldnt they have access to pure uncut drugs to minimize damage?

Heroin is less than 10% pure. If one were to remove the heroin and squirt the rest of the shit in their veins, it would be just as harmfull. Also, heroin is cheap when legal. The addict could support their habit for less than $10 a day. no need to steal or prostitute themselves to get their fix.

 

[jillio]

didnt realize smoking cigarettes is clean.

But you make my point. If addicts are to fall off the wagon, shouldnt they have access to pure uncut drugs to minimize damage?

Heroin is less than 10% pure. If one were to remove the heroin and squirt the rest of the shit in their veins, it would be just as harmfull. Also, heroin is cheap when legal. The addict could support their habit for less than $10 a day. no need to steal or prostitute themselves to get their fix.

If you are referring to opiate addicts, the have access to methadone and seboxone programs. Both clean, both minimize withdrawal symptoms. Both are monitored.

The problem with drug addiction (especially the opiates) is not the addiction to the drug itself, but the multitude of other health problems and social consequences that are connected to the addiction. Since the vast majority of opiate addicts are indigent, we as a society end up paying the cost of these consequences. We need to use a harm reduction model in dealing with this problem. But just mention a clean needle program, which has been shown to drastically reduce the negative consequences to both the addict and to society, and watch the conservatives turn blue.

 

[Babyblue]

If you are referring to opiate addicts, the have access to methadone and seboxone programs. Both clean, both minimize withdrawal symptoms. Both are monitored.

The problem with drug addiction (especially the opiates) is not the addiction to the drug itself, but the multitude of other health problems and social consequences that are connected to the addiction. Since the vast majority of opiate addicts are indigent, we as a society end up paying the cost of these consequences. We need to use a harm reduction model in dealing with this problem. But just mention a clean needle program, which has been shown to drastically reduce the negative consequences to both the addict and to society, and watch the conservatives turn blue.

Bad thing about Methadone and opiates they also are addictive and can result in death as well.

If used properly and monitored, then yes... it can help wean an addict off of illegal drugs. I have dispensed enough methadone, oxycontin and other controlled drugs to know that it is also highly abused. Especially when you have an addict come in the Pharmacy crying and sobbing all over the counter because it is too early for a refil. Just like a dope addict coming in begging a dealer for a fix. I have seen it happen with my own two eyes, it is sad indeed.

 

[VacationGuy234]

A person gets a physical need to eat/drink and will die if they do not. You will not die if you do not use drugs/alcohol and the urge you get is an addictive(external) one instead of a physical one. The urge to have sex, on the other hand, is a physical one and while you will not die it comes from your body instead of addiction. While both can be addictive, the source of the addiction is not the same.

Yes, they are persecuted. As far as the law goes, I think legislating to solve stupidity is a waste of time and money, but there are drugs(not every drug) that warrant it.

 

[Babyblue]

A person gets a physical need to eat/drink and will die if they do not. You will not die if you do not use drugs/alcohol and the urge you get is an addictive(external) one instead of a physical one. The urge to have sex, on the other hand, is a physical one and while you will not die it comes from your body instead of addiction. While both can be addictive, the source of the addiction is not the same.

Yes, they are persecuted. As far as the law goes, I think legislating to solve stupidity is a waste of time and money, but there are drugs(not every drug) that warrant it.

An abrupt withdrawal from alcolhol and certain drugs can be fatal.

Physical urge as in an errection, is totally different from being physically dependant . Physical dependancy is when your body is chemically dependant on a drug.

Which withdrawals can actually kill?
1.Alcohol - Yes, after long term use, withdrawal from alcohol can kill. Alcohol withdrawal syndrome can take on mild, moderate, or severe forms. If while withdrawing from alcohol a person develops a fever, extreme nausea, diarrhea, or DT (delirium tremens), they need to be rushed to see a doctor as soon as possible. In fact, alcohol withdrawal after heavy, chronic use is best managed under the care of a doctor or a professional medical detox unit. By using medications that relieve withdrawal symptoms, these professionals can essentially eliminate any of these risks.
2.Benzodiazepines - Benzos were introduced as a replacement to barbiturates that were causing common overdose cases, many of which resulted in death. Nevertheless, withdrawal from extended use of benzodiaepines can kill. Whether Xanax (alprazolam), Ativan (lorazepam), Valium (diazepam) or other variations, long term use of Benzodiazepines requires medical supervision to be completed successfully with minimal side-effects and risk to the patient. Normally, the withdrawal process is managed by slowly reducing the dose and transferring the patient from a slow acting, to a long acting, form of the drug. Still, full resolution of benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome can take up to 6 months (or even longer).
3.Opiates - Many people are surprised to learn that in most cases, withdrawal from many opiates is not deadly. Still there are some very important exceptions. Methadone, a long-acting opiate often prescribed as a replacement for heroin can cause death during withdrawal if it's consumed in high enough doses for a long enough period. The debate of whether the state should be prescribing something like this should be saved for a later date. It is one of the better ways of getting people off of heroin, though obviously, it does replace dependence on one substance with another, more manageable one. Also, some of the recently popular methods of rapid-detox from heroin addiction can themselves cause death, and many other negative side-effects. Overall, I would recommend checking in with a physician and conducting opiate withdrawal in a controlled setting. Withdrawal under Suboxone or Subutex can be far less horrific.

Much of the danger in withdrawal from all of these drugs has to do with the body's response to the extreme changes in the chemical processes going on in the brain and the rest of the body. Alcohol, Benzos, and Opiates interference with the GABA system, the body's most common downregulator

Alcohol, benzos, and opiates - Withdrawal that might kill you! | Psychology Today

 

[jillio]

Bad thing about Methadone and opiates they also are addictive and can result in death as well.

If used properly and monitored, then yes... it can help wean an addict off of illegal drugs. I have dispensed enough methadone, oxycontin and other controlled drugs to know that it is also highly abused. Especially when you have an addict come in the Pharmacy crying and sobbing all over the counter because it is too early for a refil. Just like a dope addict coming in begging a dealer for a fix. I have seen it happen with my own two eyes, it is sad indeed.

Yes, it is sad. But the drugs, in and of themselves, are not bad. Drug addiction is a problem in society. Fix it at its core.

I support the use of methadone, seboxone, and benzos in medically supervised detox. It is the safest way to detox. Often times, addicts who want to get clean don't because the physical withdrawal is so horrendous that they use again. The fact of the matter is, once an addict has reached a certain point, they don't even get "high" from using. They simply ward off withdrrawal. We have to offer them a monitored, medically safe way to detox. Then we need to insure that they have the proper treatment to learn to stay clean. These people are victims of their disease. They do what they do because they have no other way available to them.

 

[jillio]

A person gets a physical need to eat/drink and will die if they do not. You will not die if you do not use drugs/alcohol and the urge you get is an addictive(external) one instead of a physical one. The urge to have sex, on the other hand, is a physical one and while you will not die it comes from your body instead of addiction. While both can be addictive, the source of the addiction is not the same.

Yes, they are persecuted. As far as the law goes, I think legislating to solve stupidity is a waste of time and money, but there are drugs(not every drug) that warrant it.

You are incorrect about that. Withdrawal from opiates and benzodiasepans can kill you. Withdrawal from alcohol can kill you. That is why these people are detoxed using medical faciliities with methadone or seboxone. Alcohol, benzos, and opiates are PHYSICALLY addicting. That is why people go through PHYSICAL withdrawal symptoms when they can't use.

You are confusing dependance with addiction. They are not the same.

 

[rockin'robin]

What about crack cocaine and Meth? Addictive yes, but deathly if you stop?

 

[jillio]

What about crack cocaine and Meth? Addictive yes, but deathly if you stop?

Actually, cocaine and meth are not physically addicting. Psychologically yes, but that is not physical dependance. The withdrawal symptoms a long term user experiences are psychological, not physical.