Another ignorant question from a hearing person

whatdidyousay! said:
" I've also heard the deaf are more likely to talk about things "as they are" without any sugar coating...so I guess we'll see." I know plenty of people that are not deaf or hoh and they do not 'sugar coat' things! I can't stand people that made blanket statements like this!
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Is this your sugar-coated opinion? :giggle:
 
I know this thread is old but upon reading it, I wanted to post.

I'm a Noob and this is my first post. I am Deaf but wasn't always. I had hearing for a good twenty years before Menieres Disease destroyed my hearing. I have been Deaf for many years now, I do have one hearing aid in my left ear but ! I don't hear that well with it anyway.

I do not wish to upset nor offend anyone but I do have a question of my own.

When Squirt asked his question, it got me thinking. Now I try not to be rude or upset with anyone I meet in my daily life and will converse with someone whether they can hear or not.

My question is, why would a hearing person want to learn ASL ? And why would a Hearing person want to just walk up to a Deaf person to strike up a conversation if you have nothing in common with that person ?

If you have Family and Friends that are Deaf or HOH, then I can perfectly understand your need to learn ASL and wanting to become involved in the Deaf community.

Other than an actual need to learn ASL because you actually know someone who is Deaf. Why would you want to learn ASL ? Do some people that can hear have some sort of fascination with those of us who are Deaf and feel the need to talk to us just out of curiosity ? I mean I don't get it !

Again, I hope I have not offended anyone.

Cheers
 
My daughter is learning ASL with me (I hear well enough w/my HAs now but am preparing in case my hearing gets bad enough that HAs don't help plus the fact that I can't hear well w/o my HAs). Anyway, we figure it will also be a benefit to her as she is going into the medical field. Her friend is also taking the classes with us & she feels it will also be beneficial for her to have in her career (she's currently studying & working in child are but I think she's going into social work later.
Also, why do we require a second language for college bound kids? Some started/schools are now allowing ASL to meet this requirement.
 

So, Analogue, How well do you know ASL? Some of your questions can be answered as simple curiosity, interest, desire to communicate (in ASL), ect... Something happens in the brains of people that develop a strong desire for something (like learning ASL), common sense jumps out the window and starts running around naked and all crazy like.
 
Some reasons:

1. ASL is beautiful. Some people want to learn it just for that sake alone.
2. How would you know you have nothing in common with said deaf person if you don't talk to them at all? Is being deaf all they have going for them?
3. Expand your world. Meet new people.
 
Why do I want to learn ASL?
1. I love languages. Languages give you access to people that others can't talk to. You get to learn about another culture and way of thinking, without having to buy a plane ticket. The times when I have made a friendship with someone from another culture have always been SOOOOOOOOOOOOO awesome.

2. It will help me in my professional life.

I'm kind of in an interesting position when it comes to learning ASL though... which I will share, just so maybe someone can see what is going on inside the head of a "I want to learn ASL but I'm scared" kind of a person.

Learning other languages with people was easy for me in the past. I could teach them English and they could teach me Spanish or Arabic or whatever.

With ASL, I'm honestly at a point where I wonder what I have that is worth the work of being my friend. And I'm not willing to participate in a lot of group events, because I tried that with Arabic, and it was very similar to what was described above. It was a closed culture, because the Arabic women had been discriminated against by Americans in the past. I had to prove I was nice before I was accepted. Once I was accepted, I was expected to go to Arabic parties... but I couldn't speak Arabic well enough to understand anything going on. I was frustrated with myself and frustrated with the situation... why couldn't I learn better? I learned Spanish quickly... why was I suddenly so stupid? I was also upset at the person who invited me. If I told them I didn't want to go, they and the group would be upset with me, so I felt pressured to go. But once I got there, I understood nothing and honestly felt invisible.

When I realized the situation was just too much for me, and not helping with my Arabic at all because my language level was just way too low... I stopped going, and my friend told me the things the women were saying behind my back. I am still really hurt by that. I tried really hard, I took time to prove that I was good and that I was interested in their language and culture... and they stabbed me in the back.

I really don't want to go through this again. So I find myself wondering, is there a way to learn ASL one-on-one, and if so... what on earth do I have that is worth the other person going through the work (because friendships across cultures definately take work) of being my friend. Surely there are other people, besides me, who like to bridge cultural gaps just to find out what is on the other side? Or maybe not.
 
I believe ASL is a beautiful language. I am taking a class at a community college. I know how to fingerspell but for me and anybody I may need to talk with that is not enough. Yes, I could right it down on paper, but I would feel much better being able to express it the way I mean it.
 
Cheetah said:
So, Analogue, How well do you know ASL? Some of your questions can be answered as simple curiosity, interest, desire to communicate (in ASL), ect... Something happens in the brains of people that develop a strong desire for something (like learning ASL), common sense jumps out the window and starts running around naked and all crazy like.
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Thank you for your reply Cheetah !

How well do I know ASL ? Erm, I don't ! Never bothered to learn it. Allow me to tell you why. Back in the 90's when I was diagnosed with (Endolymphatic Hydrops) A fancy name for Menieires Disease, I was told then that I would go Deaf.

I was told it would be a good idea to learn ASL or Auslan as it's called here in Australia, and to learn Lip reading. I thought all my Friends and Family are Hearies as they are called here. I don't know any other people who are Deaf.

I thought what's the point in learning it ? Should I expect everyone I know to learn to learn it too to be able to communicate with me ?

Anyways, I did learn to Lip read, I taught myself. I did this by watching a lot of TV with closed captions or subtitles.

I was offered a cochlear implant, but I declined since they told me it wouldn't give me normal Hearing and it came with risks, not to mention many trips back and forth to hospital to have it tuned and adjusted.

Fast forward to today and I manage okay with Lip reading and what little I can hear with H/A in left in Ear. It isn't perfect by any means. I have to remind People to look at my face when talking and to not speak so fast and pronounce words clearly.

I still do have problems though. if someone has a beard and Mo, this makes it harder and then there are the ventriloquists ! These are the People that talk and hardly move their lips when doing so. That drives my nuts. lol

Lip reading at night too is at best unreliable when outside in the street or at BBQ in someones backyard. Particularly when in bad lighting. I try to avoid these situations.

Even now, I do not know any other Deaf people in my circle. So at present I have no need to learn ASL. I do occasionally have to ask People to write down what they have said, Because sometimes I find it impossible to understand a thing they have said.

I'd like to thank everyone else for their input and taking the time to reply too.

Cheers
 
Analogue said:
Thank you for your reply Cheetah !

How well do I know ASL ? Erm, I don't ! Never bothered to learn it. Allow me to tell you why. Back in the 90's when I was diagnosed with (Endolymphatic Hydrops) A fancy name for Menieires Disease, I was told then that I would go Deaf.

I was told it would be a good idea to learn ASL or Auslan as it's called here in Australia, and to learn Lip reading. I thought all my Friends and Family are Hearies as they are called here. I don't know any other people who are Deaf.

I thought what's the point in learning it ? Should I expect everyone I know to learn to learn it too to be able to communicate with me ?

Anyways, I did learn to Lip read, I taught myself. I did this by watching a lot of TV with closed captions or subtitles.

I was offered a cochlear implant, but I declined since they told me it wouldn't give me normal Hearing and it came with risks, not to mention many trips back and forth to hospital to have it tuned and adjusted.

Fast forward to today and I manage okay with Lip reading and what little I can hear with H/A in left in Ear. It isn't perfect by any means. I have to remind People to look at my face when talking and to not speak so fast and pronounce words clearly.

I still do have problems though. if someone has a beard and Mo, this makes it harder and then there are the ventriloquists ! These are the People that talk and hardly move their lips when doing so. That drives my nuts. lol

Lip reading at night too is at best unreliable when outside in the street or at BBQ in someones backyard. Particularly when in bad lighting. I try to avoid these situations.

Even now, I do not know any other Deaf people in my circle. So at present I have no need to learn ASL. I do occasionally have to ask People to write down what they have said, Because sometimes I find it impossible to understand a thing they have said.

I'd like to thank everyone else for their input and taking the time to reply too.

Cheers
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What a challenging life you lead! I used to do the lip reading all the time. Still do, but not as much anymore. I have a CI and I am fluent in ASL. I socialize a lot with other deaf in my area. I find it relaxing to have no limits on my ability to communicate when I am around other deaf. Around hearies I find I do get tired after a while.

I encourage you to expand your horizons, but at the same time I do understand where you are coming from.
 
Bottesini said:
Why do you want to talk to me? Did I meet you while I was out with my dog and you have the same kind of dog?
...

Or do you just want to run up to me when I m eating dinner and show that you can sign, "Hi, my name is...."
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Interrupting dinner is rude, of course. And I understand not being interested in talking with some stranger who just wants to prove they can sign their name.

But it's not that uncommon to go to some foreign country and have somebody there notice you speak English and come up and say something like, "Me practice English, you? O.K!" and start a conversation just to give them a chance to practice with a native speaker.

This is not a foreign country, it's your home, I get that. But some deaf people don't mind (or have the time), to let a beginner practice, and some do mind, or don't have the time.

There's no way to know unless you ask, I guess, so you (general 'you') have a bit of a thick skin if your're learning to sign.

Maybe the thing to do (and I'm asking, not stating) is first learn to sign something like, "If it's not a bother, do you have time to let me practice signing with you for a few minutes?"

And then keep it to a few minutes because this is courteous. Learn to sign, "I don't want to be rude, so I'll let you get back to what you were doing." If they want to let you talk away some more, they will probably invite you to continue, yes?

And if this is true, can somebody tell me how to sign those things? mainly "If it's not a bother" and the concept of the second sentence. I think I can sign the last half of the first sentence and "I don't want to be rude."
 
Grayma said:
Interrupting dinner is rude, of course. And I understand not being interested in talking with some stranger who just wants to prove they can sign their name.

But it's not that uncommon to go to some foreign country and have somebody there notice you speak English and come up and say something like, "Me practice English, you? O.K!" and start a conversation just to give them a chance to practice with a native speaker.

This is not a foreign country, it's your home, I get that. But some deaf people don't mind (or have the time), to let a beginner practice, and some do mind, or don't have the time.

There's no way to know unless you ask, I guess, so you (general 'you') have a bit of a thick skin if your're learning to sign.

Maybe the thing to do (and I'm asking, not stating) is first learn to sign something like, "If it's not a bother, do you have time to let me practice signing with you for a few minutes?"

And then keep it to a few minutes because this is courteous. Learn to sign, "I don't want to be rude, so I'll let you get back to what you were doing." If they want to let you talk away some more, they will probably invite you to continue, yes?

And if this is true, can somebody tell me how to sign those things? mainly "If it's not a bother" and the concept of the second sentence. I think I can sign the last half of the first sentence and "I don't want to be rude."
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Really I would like to talk to you if we love the same type dogs. I make an effort with people who do.

Why though should anyone be expected to sign with you just for the sake of your practice?

If I happened to be knitting while watching young relatives in a play place, would you approach and demand I teach you my technique?
 
Asl

Bottesini said:
Really I would like to talk to you if we love the same type dogs. I make an effort with people who do.

Why though should anyone be expected to sign with you just for the sake of your practice?

If I happened to be knitting while watching young relatives in a play place, would you approach and demand I teach you my technique?
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If I saw Bott out with her dog I would stop and talk to her because I love dogs and her dog looks like mine. So therefore we have something in common. Being able to sign would be a bonus.
 
Anij said:
The word "ignorant" shouldn't be offensive - it's simply means that someone isn't learned/educated in regards to something.

Ignorance is lack of knowledge but not in anyway connected in any way to one's intellect. Calling oneself/someone ignorant is not at all the same thing as calling oneself/someone 'stupid' ... although for some reason many people mistakenly connect the two concepts.

If you are reading threads such as "Another ignorant* question from a hearing person", and deciding it's the same as saying "Another stupid question from a [stupid] hearing person" - then you're reading and understanding it incorrectly.


EVERYONE has things they are ignorant about ... the only way to transition from ignorance to knowledge is to admit that you don't understand/know something, then ask questions and become open to learning (from educated sources) about that/those topics.


* "ignorant" in this context referring to someone who doesn't have knowledge/experience what it's like to be Hoh, d/Deaf or about signed languages etc.
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I was ignorant about ASL and the Deaf community growing up and i am more deaf then most of them since birth! Lol
 
Bottesini said:
Really I would like to talk to you if we love the same type dogs. I make an effort with people who do.

Why though should anyone be expected to sign with you just for the sake of your practice?

If I happened to be knitting while watching young relatives in a play place, would you approach and demand I teach you my technique?
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Nope, I would not ask you to teach me to knit. I knit really really slowly, and feel frustrated after a while.

If you were crocheting a cool stitch, however, I would totally stop you and ask "OMW that is the coolest stitch ever! What is it called?" and see if you would OFFER to teach me. I mean, you're stuck there at the playplace anyway, and I'm funny and entertaining (or so my classmates tell me) and would make your time at the playplace much more exciting... and I always have crochet hooks and yarn in my bookbag, in case of emergency boredom.

Hmmm.... Maybe I need to find a deaf ASL user who wants to learn to crochet, and trade ASL lessons for crochet lessons?
 
JanatheShort said:
Nope, I would not ask you to teach me to knit. I knit really really slowly, and feel frustrated after a while.

If you were crocheting a cool stitch, however, I would totally stop you and ask "OMW that is the coolest stitch ever! What is it called?" and see if you would OFFER to teach me. I mean, you're stuck there at the playplace anyway, and I'm funny and entertaining (or so my classmates tell me) and would make your time at the playplace much more exciting... and I always have crochet hooks and yarn in my bookbag, in case of emergency boredom.

Hmmm.... Maybe I need to find a deaf ASL user who wants to learn to crochet, and trade ASL lessons for crochet lessons?
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:lol: That was metaphor ?? I think... I can't knit or crochet at all.

Probably if you were funny and entertaining, :hmm: I might add that to my list .
 
It was a good metaphor. I just felt like being silly for a minute, because I really do love to crochet. :)

But it made sense to me because while I really and truly don't mind being asked to teach all the neighborhood children, and their moms, to crochet... sometimes it is offensive to me when a person wants me to teach them but doesn't want ot be my friend, or if the person demands that I teach them, or when random children show up at my house wanting red yarn, or if I really am just in a bad mood that day and want to just relax.

Point taken and pondered upon.

and yeah, I am totally fun and entertaining. Classmates are endlessly entertained by me... my cute little shoes on my cute little feet... my sweet innocent appearance... the small ball of hate they spotted deep down in my soul... the strange things I like to do in my free time that they never expect... and of course all the dry sarcastic comments.
 
JanatheShort said:
It was a good metaphor. I just felt like being silly for a minute, because I really do love to crochet. :)

But it made sense to me because while I really and truly don't mind being asked to teach all the neighborhood children, and their moms, to crochet... sometimes it is offensive to me when a person wants me to teach them but doesn't want ot be my friend, or if the person demands that I teach them, or when random children show up at my house wanting red yarn, or if I really am just in a bad mood that day and want to just relax.

Point taken and pondered upon.

and yeah, I am totally fun and entertaining. Classmates are endlessly entertained by me... my cute little shoes on my cute little feet... my sweet innocent appearance... the small ball of hate they spotted deep down in my soul... the strange things I like to do in my free time that they never expect... and of course all the dry sarcastic comments.
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:lol:
 
Bottesini said:
Really I would like to talk to you if we love the same type dogs. I make an effort with people who do.

Why though should anyone be expected to sign with you just for the sake of your practice?
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Who said anything about 'expecting?" Not me. I don't think anybody did.

I don't *expect* somebody will be willing to sign with me for a few minutes just to help a rude, benighted, ignorant and annoying hearie practice the language that I keep reading all hearing people should learn.

But some people don't mind at all, and some people do, and I am not sure how you find out without asking, nor am I sure what is so dreadful about asking. What does it hurt to just politely reply, "I'd rather not. Good luck with your studies."?

In the hearing world, more than once I have had somebody who is learning English as a second language ask if they could chat with me a few minutes to practice their English. Why should that offend me? If I have time, I do, if I do not have time, I say so.



Bottesini said:
If I happened to be knitting while watching young relatives in a play place, would you approach and demand I teach you my technique?
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Demand? No. Nobody said anything indicating they would make a 'demand.'
I seldom approach strangers to ask them anything. In actuality, the most I have ever said to a deaf person I have just crossed paths with is, "I am learning sign" or "I know some sign language," and I have never had anybody blow me off. They always chat back for a few minutes. Noted that this happened regularly when I lived in California and Oregon. I've met exactly 2 deaf Americans in the 28 years since I left California. Both of them talked to me at length and were very encouraging.

But I don't see why it would be a problem if I were interested in knitting and saw you knitting to come up and ask what you were making, nor do I think it would be odd for one knitter to pull out a some yarn and ask a second if she could show her the stitch she just made.

So, what kind of dogs do you love?
 
Grayma said:
Who said anything about 'expecting?" Not me. I don't think anybody did.

I don't *expect* somebody will be willing to sign with me for a few minutes just to help a rude, benighted, ignorant and annoying hearie practice the language that I keep reading all hearing people should learn.

But some people don't mind at all, and some people do, and I am not sure how you find out without asking, nor am I sure what is so dreadful about asking. What does it hurt to just politely reply, "I'd rather not. Good luck with your studies."?

In the hearing world, more than once I have had somebody who is learning English as a second language ask if they could chat with me a few minutes to practice their English. Why should that offend me? If I have time, I do, if I do not have time, I say so.




Demand? No. Nobody said anything indicating they would make a 'demand.'
I seldom approach strangers to ask them anything. In actuality, the most I have ever said to a deaf person I have just crossed paths with is, "I am learning sign" or "I know some sign language," and I have never had anybody blow me off. They always chat back for a few minutes. Noted that this happened regularly when I lived in California and Oregon. I've met exactly 2 deaf Americans in the 28 years since I left California. Both of them talked to me at length and were very encouraging.

But I don't see why it would be a problem if I were interested in knitting and saw you knitting to come up and ask what you were making, nor do I think it would be odd for one knitter to pull out a some yarn and ask a second if she could show her the stitch she just made.

So, what kind of dogs do you love?
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Very old breeds, with hair akin to human . Do you know some of those?

Also deaf dogs. I rescue them and we have a lot in common.
 
Bottesini said:
Really I would like to talk to you if we love the same type dogs. I make an effort with people who do.

Why though should anyone be expected to sign with you just for the sake of your practice?

If I happened to be knitting while watching young relatives in a play place, would you approach and demand I teach you my technique?
Click to expand...

I would never demand, of course, but if I saw you doing Continental style knitting, I would definitely ask if you could take a minute to show me how it's done. I've tried and tried to get the hang of it and just can't get it right. I always do English style, and I know it's slower.

Would you think that would be rude?

If I were crocheting something and someone wanted to ask how I was doing a particular thing, I wouldn't mind showing them at all.

edited to add: Oh, now I just saw that you don't knit or crochet at all! OK, then, I won't ask you how you don't do it! :lol:
 
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