Another 5 yrs old arrested

[Cheri]

maybe cuz she got no one else to call? when i was in high school my dad was impossible to get in touch and he wouldnt even give permission for my school to call anybody else till i fake signature on paper wiht all names who can take me in when my dad cant. a 5 years old kid can t do that. So maybe its similiar situation?

No, It's requirement by the school policy that they have to list others sidings beside the mother and father in case of emergency. It's very important. Anything can happen, and they need to get a hold of someone regarding with the student.

Anyway, I had a really long talk with my hearing sister whom she is a teacher of a 4th graders, She told me she agrees with what the school did, by calling the police, She said she had a student like that in her classroom, and she has to think of the safely of all children around her. Sometimes there aren't ways to handle that outrage child, because of mother or father will make a complaint to the school. So I agree with her because, She told me there are some children out there that are far worst than other children, Sometimes there not much you can do. Beside I am really upset at the mother because, She did not go to school to pickup her daughter so quick, My sister have told me there parents out there like that all the time, She had a problem with one of her student and her mother makes excuses for her daughter like her daughter had missed 12 essay homework's and she kept adding it up more and more and still haven't done it. The daughter smart mouth the mother in front of my sister saying "You told me I didn't have to do this homework." And the Mother said "I did? Maybe I did." She let the daughter take control. That's not right. So, I understand the whole situation what my hearing sister is saying. I agree with her that it's parents fault because they don't let the children know that they are the boss, they let the children run everything eventually all the time.

Thanks for you all feedback's, and opinions. It's greatly appreciated.

 

[Cheri]

I watched the video clip about this girl. I think that she has a hyperactivity health problem, or she did not get good attention from her parents. Actually, I noticed that the teacher let her to do anything in her office. The teacher definitely got the wrong idea to put this kid in her office. It would be nice if Super Nanny from TV show shows up in the office.

Yes, I notice it too and explained that to my hearing sister whom is a teacher herself, She said that, If the teacher grabbed her arms or touch her in a way that parent would think that was not proper handles that she might get sued by the parent. She said sometimes there not much you can do when a child kept going on and on with her nasty attitude destroying things and not obeying the teacher's requested. She said it's a good thing to take the child out the classroom to think of safely of the other children. She would hate to put other children in the middle of that child who is out of control and suborn. And I agree it would be nice to see Jo Frost show up in the office, I know she would have done alot better. But, Who knows what her mother would think, She might flip-flop if she sees Jo saying no no to her daughter. LOL!

Because, My sister said there are some overprotective parent out there who thinks that nobody should touch their children no matter how bad they are.

 

[SpiceHD]

yep cheri i agree with your hearing sister on both posts. I have been trying to explain that lol :-P guess u explained that better than me then.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I watched on video carefully and had the feeling that it´s something do with EBO (emotionally behavior disorder) or OD (Oppositional Defiant). She needs real professional help. She remind me of my nephew. I know that symbol because my nephew had the similar problem as her. It´s not too late for small child(ren) to get the help is go to family therapy. Get the help an earlier age is the best than late teenage. They will end into crimes if they doesn´t get the help from therapy/counsellors... Teachers recommended my sister to take her son to therapy. She didn´t but accussed the teachers for label her son as “mental” and also judge her over child education. I look his behavior when he was a little boy and suggest her in friendly way to do something to help him but she refused to listen and accussed me for jealous because I don´t have a children at that time. 10 years later after that he become criminal and trouble with police alot of times and beat teachers up and also use weapons, too. Acholc and Drugs etc. He´s 20 years old now and still is unhappy and depressive. He´s job hater. It´s very sad because it would be good if my sister listen teacher´s recommend. Teachers called Youth Welfare Service Department because he can´t handle my nephew any more.

Anyway, back to topic about 5 years old girl. It look like that it´s not first time for the teachers to handle a girl like this because of those hiddern camera for us to view.... It look like that the teachers didn´t do SOMETHING to give mother a tips how to deal with her daughter´s behavior problem? I can´t say anything about the mother because I didn´t know about a girl´s family background. One thing, I´m surprised that mother can´t make it to pick her at school up.

Teachers are supposing to call Youth Welfare Service Department instead of Police if mother can´t make it. It´s Youth Welfare Service Department´s job task to investigate and find out why/how/where the children´s behaviour comes from.

“Arrest” a 5 years old doesn´t belong children education but treat her as “crime”.

I can see thru video that the teacher handle a girl with behavior is not strong enough to help her and even not once explain her why she should not do that etc. She ough do something to calm her down and being good listener and ask her why she act like this? I know it would be easier for teacher if she give her student bearhug to calm her down. Werid law... I know. It´s teacher´s job task to handle the behavior of their students and get the parents to talk and support and also work together with the parents because it´s child´s future.

We signed the agreement with my children´s school that it´s teachers´s responsible to deal with my children during lesson time. It´s teacher´s duty to tell us what/how she/he educate their students during lesson time during parent´s evening, that we will know what kind of responsible, my children´s future teacher has for our children (like punish their students with 50 line writing, stay in the school during break time etc.). We (parents) MUST come to support the teachers if they had the problem to handle our children. If it doesn´t work then call Youth Welfare Service Department........

It´s big difference between ADD/AHDD and EBO/OD. EBO/OD is the worst of all.
I know what ADD is because my 1st son had ADD when he was a little boy. I thank the kindergarten/school to give me tips how to deal with ADD. We helped our son thru their recommend is go to family therapy then to Ergopy therapy and change his diets. We found out that the problem why my 1st son had ADD is something do with eating. They gave me the list how to deal ADD children which it´s not bad. My son doesnt have ADD anymore. Thanks to Kindergarden/teachers´s tips.

ADD mean is:

impatience
Can´t sit longer
quickly temper
show no interest to learn anything
Play the chair/make noise etc.
Wild

EBO/OD mean is:

Fight with adult
Ignorant
Quickly temper
Often refuses to obey adult´s requests or rules
Annoy people
Blame others for his/her mistake behavior
Very touchy
Angry, spiteful, volience
Swear bad languages
Misbehavior
Has low opinion of him/herself
Moody
low self-esteem, changing moods, and a low frustration tolerance.

The parents can help to improve their children´s behavior like this is:.

• talk about feelings instead of acting on them
• find something to calm themselves
• get involved in tasks and physical activities that provide a healthy outlet for energy like sports, etc.
• learn how to talk positive
• develop ways to make pleasure and feel good
• learn how to get along with other people
• find way to limit with anyone
• learn to admit mistakes
• learn to respect adult´s rules
• learn to develop into right path.,


I´m sure that a girl has EBO or OD, not AHDD. I know it because of my nephew.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Taylor

I've seen worse than what this girl did on the video...When my 2nd child enrolled into the preschool program at the public school where they have pre-kindergarden to 2nd grade, there was a little boy who was 5 years old kept biting other children in the classroom, when the teacher told him several times to stop, but he refused and so the teacher got up and told him to come with her, he refused, he started throwing fist around by knocking over things off the table which were blocks etc, the teacher pulled him into the hallway and made him sit in the time-out chair while she talked to him about his behavior, he got all angry and started kicking the teacher while she was trying to get him to calm down, when he started kicking her, she hold his legs down and told him stop, don't do that, etc....and while the other teacher who is an aid in the classroom walked to the main office to get help I believe, the teacher was still talking to him out in the hallway ... I was in the classroom watching the children while the two teachers took care of the problem.....They did not have to call the police, they did everything they could to calm the child down, what I see on the video is the teacher did not even try to clam the child down, but kept following her around telling her no no no, it that suppose to help? my goodness....

It seem that none of this would have happen if the teacher had tried her darnest to calm the child down, do whatever you can without giving the child a bruise mark or two, but she did not tried her best and she wasn't able to deal with a 5 years old child...there are other ways you can deal with a child with that type of behavior, sadly, at the end they involved the police into this...

I also noticed that the mother did not come to the school when someone from the main office tried to get her to come , that was stupid part on the mother for not showing up, or had came, but there are others that the mother had add in case of emererecy they could at least try to call those other people that were in her file, they could have done alot more, but sadly they gave up too easy!

I don't agree at all how the school handle this, they could have thought of other soluations how to handle this kind of behavior, but it seem the teachers and the school were not trained to do what they thought it was best, and the only soluation they thought it was best to call the police....

***nodding agreement***

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I agree that might work. The problem is, some schools do not allow the teachers to touch the students. There are so many weird laws in schools now. I just don't know; what can you do if the teachers are not allowed to hold the students?

I really don't want to call the police for elementary school children, unless they are using a weapon.

I´m so afraid, yes... werid laws...

I remember thru read the magazine few years ago that a teacher in North Germany pay €1,000 fine because he hold 15 years old boy arm gentle. A mother of boy sued him for "hurt" his son´s arm. We all said that 15 years old boy only do purposely because he hate his teacher and got mother to beleive him and sue him... What a

A teacher is upset and said that he only hold to get him to listen what he tried to explain. €1,000 for "hurt" 15 years old boy´s arm.

All what the teachers do is careful and stick their legal ways to handle their students and get the parents´s support if they have the problem to handle their children.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I don't think so. Teacher's salary is lousy. There is safety policy in schools that teachers are required to move the violently child(ren) out of the classrooms for other students' safety.

Exactly. It´s important to be safety for the children when the violently child(ren) comes.

Anyway about how teacher handled this situation. I don't know if it is wrong or right but I believe they should've call that kid's parent and demand them to pick their daughter up and let them handle their own kid. That's what I did as one-to-one specialist several times at mainstream school & deaf schools. I did everything according to the school policy, nothing more or less than that. One kid's parent were getting so annoyed with that and decided to take the responsibility for that student's violently behavior through discipline, healthier diet, therapies, etc... That student that I worked with didn't behave aggressively or violently toward me, students or teacher any more. I no longer need to call them to pick their kid up. That tells lot about responsibilities. Like it or not, parents are the biggest role in kids' lives... Teachers and others aren't but yes, they do have some role (keyword: some) in kids' lives.

Exactly, this is what the counsellors said the same during parent´s evening at few years ago.

Help the children like what I mentioned in my previous posts IS:
healthy diet, therapies, etc.

As I explained above, get the violently kid out of the classroom to some special room or somewhere where I, aides or officals with licenses or certifications can contrain the kid with other adult (off-duty teachers, principal, therapist, etc) for potential witness to protect the teachers & officals from the parents and their lawsuits then call the parent to pick her/him up if nothing change in her behavior in certain duration of time.

We have counsellor in my sons´s school twice a week which it helps the children´s behavior problem and got the parents to talk with and tips, etc.
I know what it is because my 1st son had ADD before. I don´t know about US school systems. Did they have counsellors in the school few times a week?

Edit: Honestly... I found this situation bit sad and funny because many people are still using wrong methods, wrong laws, wrong legislations, wrong everything to solve this problem which getting worser and worser annually. I mean, even people were thinking that transferring their kids to private or religious schools will solve but they were shocked that some students are still behaving aggressively and violently toward the teachers and other school officals. So what next? Heavily drugged? Physically abuse?

Important is look at school with good enivornment. The parents has the rights to complaint if their discussion with teachers are not work, something what the parents disagree with then go to Education authority....... They will take care of school´s enivornment.

The children´s interest is more important but I can´t see the sense why the teachers give up easily and call the police simple because a mother can´t make it. Why can´t the teacher do SOMETHING, it´s their job. Why can´t they also call Youth Welfare Service Department to find out about a girl´s family background because it´s their job task to help the children accord children protection law.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Remember that 'aggressive' & 'violence' itself have different levels...

Yes, you were right about the difference between aggressive and violence.

Angel & AD'ers, curious about certain situation... what will you do if a high school student, 200 lbs veteran football player becomes violence in the classroom? Constrain clearly aren't working (so far I know, the school policy do not allow us to constrain any older than certain ages). Time-out surely aren't working (for high school kids? Please). So... what kind of solution do you think that will solve that situation beside call the cops?

We are talking about a 5 years old child here, not teenagers.

Yes, the teachers have to call the parents. If it´s not first time what teenagers did then call Youth Welfare Service Department then police.
I know what happened to my son´s friend at few years ago. 14 years old beated 10 years old boy up out of school lesson which it´s not first time so they call the amulubance to deliver injured boy to hospitail and put 14 years old boy in secure home until his behavior improves. My son´s school throw him out with the permission from Education Authority because the school wants to be clean and good reputation. All what they put 14 years old boy to boarding school with stricter teachers. Teachers´s job task to talk and help students and their parents for months if it´s doesn´t work then call Youth Welfare Service Department, then police................................

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I watched the video clip about this girl. I think that she has a hyperactivity health problem, or she did not get good attention from her parents. Actually, I noticed that the teacher let her to do anything in her office. The teacher definitely got the wrong idea to put this kid in her office. It would be nice if Super Nanny from TV show shows up in the office.

Yeah, I had the feeling, too.

I think it´s something do with EOB or OD, not ADD/AHDD but I can´t say anything further about a girl´s family background because we didnt know about their background.

It´s super idea to invite Super Nanny from TV show in the school.... I enjoyed to watch Super Nanny every Wednesday.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Tamara asked,"If mother didn't turn up, teacher must have her next-emergency ph no of next guardian as we sign on the form in case we are unable to collect kids, why can't they do that?"

maybe cuz she got no one else to call? when i was in high school my dad was impossible to get in touch and he wouldnt even give permission for my school to call anybody else till i fake signature on paper wiht all names who can take me in when my dad cant. a 5 years old kid can t do that. So maybe its similiar situation?

I know what you mean because your problem is almost similar as my sister´s son like what I mentioned about my nephew in my previous post. He faked signatures alot of times until the teacher caught it....


The teachers tried to call my sister to get him out of school and need her support but my sister can´t make it so they call my Dad. Teachers invited people from Youth Welfare Service and Dad to have good talk about my nephew´s behavior. They tried everything what they can with him but it doesn´t work because my sister do not help him but neglect him thru drugs...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, It's requirement by the school policy that they have to list others sidings beside the mother and father in case of emergency. It's very important. Anything can happen, and they need to get a hold of someone regarding with the student.

Anyway, I had a really long talk with my hearing sister whom she is a teacher of a 4th graders, She told me she agrees with what the school did, by calling the police, She said she had a student like that in her classroom, and she has to think of the safely of all children around her. Sometimes there aren't ways to handle that outrage child, because of mother or father will make a complaint to the school. So I agree with her because, She told me there are some children out there that are far worst than other children, Sometimes there not much you can do. Beside I am really upset at the mother because, She did not go to school to pickup her daughter so quick, My sister have told me there parents out there like that all the time, She had a problem with one of her student and her mother makes excuses for her daughter like her daughter had missed 12 essay homework's and she kept adding it up more and more and still haven't done it. The daughter smart mouth the mother in front of my sister saying "You told me I didn't have to do this homework." And the Mother said "I did? Maybe I did." She let the daughter take control. That's not right. So, I understand the whole situation what my hearing sister is saying. I agree with her that it's parents fault because they don't let the children know that they are the boss, they let the children run everything eventually all the time.

Thanks for you all feedback's, and opinions. It's greatly appreciated.

***nodding agreement sadly***

Yes, I notice most parents let the children play the boss which it´s no good.

They let their children do what they wants and spend money on expensive things on the children to save their "hassle". To me.. No Way... My children has to learn to accept the word: "No".

Never say "maybe you were right" but say firmly... No, I never say one word...

I stop when my oldest son tried to be bossy to me.... I told him: "Who is the boss? You or me"? My son was like and point his finger to me... I said: Right... I´m the boss and please do what I say...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Some things I'd like to add here...

The child was not arrested....she was handcuffed but was not arrested. This girl will have no record of this incident.

It make no difference. To me, "handcuffed" means is "arrest". To my eyes, a 5 years old girl was treat being "crime" by polices. 2 big cops handcuffed a small girl is a werid...

The schools hands are tied. The teacher is attempting to get the girl to calm down. For those that say that the Teacher should just try to talk to the girl and that will make things better....the teacher did do that.

But not enough... I can tell thru the video...
A teacher should talk SOMETHING to calm a girl down instead of follow her and say no no no no and put her back if she is on the table.

What doesn't the teach restrain the child? It was suggested that the child be put in somewhat of a gentle bearhug until she calmed down. Thats good in theory but the teacher is not allowed to do that, so what choice does the teacher have? Also, calling for the teachers firing is absurd...the teacher did not do anything wrong.

Yes, I know... weird law...

The teachers are not allowed to do anything physical to the child...not even restrain them. You'll notice that as soon as the teacher grabs the girl off of the table, she releases the child...which is what they are supposed to do.

What is the wrong with TALK to CALM the child down???????????

The teacher does everything that she is allowed to do and it doesn't work. They call the mother and the mother says that she won't be coming to the school. The school is left with no other option to but to call the police...and the police did what they are supposed to do.

They should call Youth Welfare Service Department instead of Police if the mother won´t come to the school. It´s their job to find out about girl´s background accord children protection law. Why call police for? It´s police´s job to catch criminals, murders, etc.

Spice brings up an excellent point....Why is a 5 year old in control of this entire situation? Its because the teachers cannot take control...they will either get fired or get sued...and they don't make enough money to risk either one. So, that leaves 2 options...call the parent or call the police. If the parent doesn't come, then the police have to. If the mother didn't want the police involved, she should have immediately made arrangements to have the child picked up. I know that can be difficult, but obviously she wasn't too concerned about the situation.

Like what I mention above...

What´s wrong with TALK to CALM the children down??????? It´s teacher´s job... They are supposing to be professional and know how to handle the students. I am mother of 2 children and must say that I´m surprise about Florida law system how to treat the children like this. Oh No..... It look like that they have no counsellors, therapies, Youth Welfare Service Department, no children protection law, no professional teachers in Florida or what?

 

[VamPyroX]

Okay...

Perhaps, it's the easy lawsuits that got these teachers paranoid. Nowadays, teachers are being sued for their punishment with kids.

Problem:
The kid misbehaves.

Actions:
The teacher makes the kid sit in the corner.
The teacher spanks the kid.
The teacher makes the kid sit in the hall way.
The teacher sends the kid home.
The teacher yells at the kid.
The teacher makes the kid miss recess.

Consequence:
The parents sue.

 

[Cheri]

Okay...

Perhaps, it's the easy lawsuits that got these teachers paranoid. Nowadays, teachers are being sued for their punishment with kids.

Problem:
The kid misbehaves.

Actions:
The teacher makes the kid sit in the corner.
The teacher spanks the kid.
The teacher makes the kid sit in the hall way.
The teacher sends the kid home.
The teacher yells at the kid.
The teacher makes the kid miss recess.The parents sue.

I disagree, Most of the schools in Ohio, Teachers put the child in the hallway to sit time-out, Teachers have yelled, Teachers have took away their recess and no parent have sued those teachers. I only don't agree with the taken away of recess when there two children in my son's class was behaving badly at lunch the Principal said the whole class had to stay inside. I disagree with that because that shows unfair because other two cannot behave why blame it on the whole class? Doesn't make no sense.

 

[Reba]

It make no difference. To me, "handcuffed" means is "arrest". To my eyes, a 5 years old girl was treat being "crime" by polices. 2 big cops handcuffed a small girl is a werid...

There is a big legal difference between physically restraining someone with cuffs, and actually arresting the person, which includes making charges and creating a record. It might not seem different to the girl, or to observers, but legally the difference is important.

They should call Youth Welfare Service Department instead of Police if the mother won´t come to the school. It´s their job to find out about girl´s background accord children protection law. Why call police for? It´s police´s job to catch criminals, murders, etc.

The laws and agencies of Germany and the United States are not the same.
Depending on the laws of each area in the USA, representatives of a child protective agency are not always allowed to take custody of a child in a "violent" situation without the presence of police. It depends on the local laws.

 

[Reba]

...Anyway, I had a really long talk with my hearing sister whom she is a teacher of a 4th graders....

Many thanks to your sister for her viewpoint. It was good to read the straight info from an actual teacher.

 

[linneaelliott]

Well, this girl looks so much like one of my current students. This (kicking, punching, yelling, throwing things, biting, scratching) is almost a daily thing for me and my TWO aides to deal with. We have tried everything we can possibly think of to do. We are allowed to restrain, so we have had to do that sometimes (only as a last resort, if we can't get him to calm down from just talking to him, which sometimes we can, but sometimes we can't). It usually works for a short period of time, but then he acts up again. We have our own private bathroom, and we have put him in there to let him calm himself down. That worked really good too, until one day he decided he didn't want to be left in there alone, so he grabbed my hair and jerked on it until it came out. He was sent to alternative school for 5 days for that. It was the first (and last) time they (the principal and assistant principal) have actually done any kind of disipline other than just saying "That is not acceptable." and letting him sit in their office to watch movies to calm him down.

I don't agree with the arrest; I personally believe in a good, old fashioned butt whipping. That is exactly what my student needs. But really, there are other ways to calm a child down. You just have to find what works with that child and what doesn't. For us, the best thing is continious rewards and constant verbal praise. And even calling his mom and letting him talk to her works. Now most of our problem is the constant clapping, singing, yelling, name calling, and doing everything he can to disturb the other students, which is better than the temper tantrums. But sadly, the other students, even my best students, have been starting to copy him, and they have also lost a LOT of instructional time because of him.

I am just ready for May 27 then I am done there. I need to be in a school where the principal and assistant principal will support me and actually disipline the kids. My dad is a principal and he assured me that all principals are not like that. And not all students are like that either lol.

 

[Reba]

... I need to be in a school where the principal and assistant principal will support me and actually disipline the kids. My dad is a principal and he assured me that all principals are not like that. And not all students are like that either lol.

That is a big problem in the public schools here, too. Some of the excellant teachers quit because the principals do not support them. Many of the principals bow down to the parents and politics. In one middle school classroom, the kids swore at the teacher, called her racial names, and vandalized her bicycle. She tried sending the troublemakers to the principal. The principal bawled out the teacher. The principal said, "You just have to accept the way children are raised in their family and culture. You can't punish them for that."

I know not all principals are bad like that, just some.