All about electric cars!

[Buffalo]

Exactly, the story and talk has been repeat several times since 1870's Electric and gas motor companies have been battled and gas motor company won in 1906 (That was Ford motor corp). Henry Ford had heavy advertised to public back in early 1900's "You can take a jug of gas and go anywhere you want to go". Since then attempt to get attract on electric cars have failed repeat. How can this change after hundred years of unsuccessfully get people attract to all Electric. I was old enough to hear and remember the talks. That is why I knew people who thinks Electric cars are way to go is truly misinformed.

I am not going to buy two vehicles, one just electric for commuting and other one to get out of town on vacation the American style. No way!

If you don't get out of town on vacation very often (like me), you could own an electric car and rent a gas-run car for vacation. You get to try out some cars that way.

Edison want the electric car to succeed and he was researching on how to prolong the batteries life. http://www.batteryfacts.co.uk/BatteryHistory/Edison.html

 

[Buffalo]

Hmm, I am not aware of hydrogen technology in 1839. Is there any chance you know any physicist's name or university that worked with hydrogen technology in early 1800's? Its sunday, and I want something to read.

Google is your best friend and I found this guy's name --- Sir William Grove.

 

[Eighty]

Google is your best friend and I found this guy's name --- Sir William Grove.

I googled it up as well too, and got same answer. I was just wondering who he was talking about.

 

[diehardbiker]

I do not recall his name, the inventor of Fuel cell system, I just happen to saw 1839 and I was like, shit! that is older than the idea of all Electric car.

The real problem behind this is just pure money. Oil companies have accumulated wealth, now that they have the "Power" to prevent anyone from trying to make changes, stopping dependency on oil.

Now, think of this way, 98% of vehicles in the USA is driven by oil, 2 percent is something else which means that oil has the largest market and can absorb loss easily. Here is the real problem that I am seeing whole my life. Whenever somebody got idea, for instance back in 1970's somebody came up the idea of transform coal into fuel for cars, and the research was so hot back then. Oil companies got scared, decided to drop the gas prices, guess what happened afterwards? These people who got involved in research realize that they can't compete with oil companies. They actually gave up the research. They do not have much of economic power to overcome the oil giants. Now, here is my point, 98% of market is oil and it is going to be extremely difficult to achieve the change. It is closer to "impossible"

Just think this way, if there is truly success with Hydrogen fuel cell which I hope for and if it true business happens, the price of gas is going to drop faster than you think and it can happen easily, that is because again oil companies have damn deep pocket and they can absorb the loss if there is no tomorrow. That is the real problem I am seeing. Here is proof, remember the oil spill in gulf last year? It is Big Problem Oil corp. and have they had issues with money? Not really and they did gone fine as if nothing happened.

Unless oil reserves have dried up, not much is going to make difference.

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/03/coaltoliquids/

This is something new but the message remains the same, it did mention that if oil price continues to rise then they will continue working on it. BUT it did mentioned that if oil price drops, they won't continue. See my point? The idea of coal to gas has been around since 1970s. I grew up area where there is so much coal mining, and did heard this.

 

[Buffalo]

Agree with DieHardBiker that oil is all about pure money. The oil companies probably will fight this until they realized that the oil is about to run out.

 

[webexplorer]

We were talking about the gas price at a gas station last month. The employee knows or met a president of a headquarter of a gas company. He told me that all presidents of gas companies never lost their profit. I mean they have been earned billions of dollars EVERY year. They do not like to donate or help other little business starters - not related to a gas business like some starters needs 300,000 dollars to get started. This is just unbelievable.

I believe that some people should build their own electric car to keep in quiet because if someone would find out about your electric car business, they will kill you. That is so crazy so it is better off for them to keep it quiet and enjoy yourself driving your own designed car even if it is an old nice Ford or GMC that has the electric motor in it. Why not...

 

[diehardbiker]

Yes and maybe no.

What scares me is that oil companies have not seen red ink for over a century, and they have vast amount of dough and continue milking cow as "Cash cow". With this amount of profit, they probably already bought several patents for alternative energy thus probably will use that to continue their cash cow business as soon as after the last drop of oil goes into refinery.

Oil companies are the one on top end on the Monopoly games, Aka Broadwalk and Park Place. Impossible to beat.

Agree with DieHardBiker that oil is all about pure money. The oil companies probably will fight this until they realized that the oil is about to run out.

 

[Buffalo]

Yes and maybe no.

What scares me is that oil companies have not seen red ink for over a century, and they have vast amount of dough and continue milking cow as "Cash cow". With this amount of profit, they probably already bought several patents for alternative energy thus probably will use that to continue their cash cow business as soon as after the last drop of oil goes into refinery.

Oil companies are the one on top end on the Monopoly games, Aka Broadwalk and Park Place. Impossible to beat.

How about Biofuel? It is easy to find cars/trucks that can run on biofuel. Check and make sure the vehicle is converted to take in biofuel.

 

[Cheetah]

It's really too early to tell if electric cars will replace gas cars any time soon. Biofuel has some big drawbacks as does Hydrogen fuel cells. But it's important to develop these alternatives now so they mature and become a viable alternative when oil finally becomes too expensive.

 

[diehardbiker]

Oil to finally become too expensive? It may not happen in our lifetime, why? Like I said earlier that oil companies got darn deep pocket and can afford whatever they want to do to keep in business. I believe that oil companies got patents on some ideas already as back up and refused to make it available to public. Remember, once one has deep pocket, they got bigger chip to play ahead.

As for environment, I rather hydrogen fuel cell over anything else, including biofuel. I could turn my truck into BioDiesel but problem is I need to do alot modification. My truck year is the last year not designed for BioDiesel, 2007 is the first year that diesel engine requires accept up to 20% BioDiesel. Can higher if properly modified and equipment. On other hand, the idea of Biofuel creates another headache.... it is called highway taxes. If it is severely compromised then there won't be much money to improve infrastructure.

It's really too early to tell if electric cars will replace gas cars any time soon. Biofuel has some big drawbacks as does Hydrogen fuel cells. But it's important to develop these alternatives now so they mature and become a viable alternative when oil finally becomes too expensive.

 

[Cheetah]

You bring up an interesting point. As fuel consumption goes down and alternative fuels increase. Our taxes for road repairs and constructions dwindle. We already see fuel taxes not keeping up with basic road repairs. What's a government to do to raise enough money to keep up with road repairs?

Usage taxes also known as Toll roads. Just wait, I can see this happening in the U.S. in our life time.

 

[Jiro]

They didn't sell EV-1s. They leased them. I didn't understand why they won't sell them. No wonder EV-1 didn't take off.

GM's EV1 -- Who Killed Common Sense?

3. Rumor: Many EV1 drivers and fans wanted to purchase their EV1 when the lease ended and GM killed the program, but GM crushed the cars instead to keep people from discovering how great they were.

Fact: All U.S. automakers are required to provide parts and service on a vehicle for a given number of years after it is produced. To support the 1,000 EV1s GM had made would have cost the company a lot of money because of its advanced technology and totally unique nature (it shared almost no parts with other GM products). This is not the case with, for instance, Toyota's electric RAV4, which shares the majority of its parts with regular RAV4s. I'm sure GM also worried about the potential for lawsuits if owners bought the cars and started modifying them (something that surely would have happened -- look at what's already happening with the Prius). "But Karl, these EV1 fans were willing to sign waivers against future liabilities if they could buy the cars." Waivers are great in theory, but any lawyer knows there is always a path around them -- especially if the payoff is big enough (which will always be the case when GM is the defendant).

 

[Jiro]

I can see why, it is still very expensive to produce these cars since they produced only small quantity, thus result very expensive if sells, so they leased it instead. I cant find article that I read few months ago that it cost around $150K to produce each electric cars. No one is going to buy $150K for electric cars, so lease it instead. That way companies can get these cars back and do more research. Again, it is subsidized from what I am aware of.

This is part of reason why I have very doubt on viability on these electric cars. First of all, it has not kicked excitement, and it is still below half percentage of total vehicle sales. If it is at least 25% then I can see potentials.

Forget electric, Hydrogen is way to go! The only differences between All electric and Hydrogen is how it is refueling. Electric have to recharge and it can take time, comparing to Hydrogen which refuels almost same way as gasoline, yet runs same way as electric. Both of these vehicle runs on electric motor, and I think Hydrogen fuel cell which is pretty much like batteries are much safer than regular batteries. Why? Once in collision, it is easy to cut off the power on fuel cell verses 100% electric batteries that can't cut off power its own when in accident.

they didn't need to worry about funds since government gave them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[diehardbiker]

Yeah, toll roads are already in place in some states. My state has it and has the most "Toll road mileage" of any other state if I think it right. I don't mind that because there are plenty of tourist coming into my state and I'd like them to pay for some of highway expense so they can enjoy our excelsior state.

You bring up an interesting point. As fuel consumption goes down and alternative fuels increase. Our taxes for road repairs and constructions dwindle. We already see fuel taxes not keeping up with basic road repairs. What's a government to do to raise enough money to keep up with road repairs?

Usage taxes also known as Toll roads. Just wait, I can see this happening in the U.S. in our life time.

 

[diehardbiker]

Yup, that is a fact... my friend

If ever government decided to take away these subsides, still oil companies have plenty of money to play games anyway.

they didn't need to worry about funds since government gave them $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Jiro]

I heard that hydrogen gas is expensive to produce. Why can't one just simply extract hydrogen from water?

because it is very expensive.

 

[naisho]

I heard that hydrogen gas is expensive to produce. Why can't one just simply extract hydrogen from water?

Require more energy for input and the output gives less energy than input.
It is like you give me $1.00 and I return you $0.25 cents.

 

[Jiro]

Im not misinformed at all, none of them are feasible yet. The only time it will happen is if we run out of oil which is not going to happen anytime soon. Trust me, I have heard that we are running out of oil since when? Its early 70's and 40 years has passed we still see oil flowing. 40 years is long long long time

back in 70's? oh that was because some oil countries deliberately cut back oil supplies to raise price.

Here's a simple fact. we're never gonna run out of oil. ever. Simple formula:

The number of barrels we can extract with existing technology.
The number of barrels used worldwide in a year.

As the years go on, government hands out funds for research and passes legislations and companies will continually come out with new technologies.

with new technologies, we're consuming less and less oil. simple as that.

 

[Jiro]

That is correct, they are still expensive in production. Hopefully it will eventually become mass production. They have two major issues to correct, and not sure if they have figured it out yet.

Hydrogen is definitely cheaper than gasoline and you can make hydrogen yourself at home. If my memory serves me right, Hydrogen vehicle gets equivalent on gas models as 70 MPG. I think will increase over time.


Here is hard fact, Hydrogen is EVERYWHERE! You can find it pretty much anywhere from water to air to deep down inside Earth, so there is no limits on Hydrogen. Whats even better is that Hydrogen can be re-useable and renewable 100%. Howcome? Simply put, there is no carbon in it to burn it to something else. That is a PLUS for environment.

Yeah, you are breathing some Hydrogen while reading this.

I don't support hydrogen technology for this case. in engineering and economic sense.... it does not make sense. it's horrendously inefficient and a colossal waste of resource.

 

[Jiro]

I do not recall his name, the inventor of Fuel cell system, I just happen to saw 1839 and I was like, shit! that is older than the idea of all Electric car.

The real problem behind this is just pure money. Oil companies have accumulated wealth, now that they have the "Power" to prevent anyone from trying to make changes, stopping dependency on oil.

Now, think of this way, 98% of vehicles in the USA is driven by oil, 2 percent is something else which means that oil has the largest market and can absorb loss easily. Here is the real problem that I am seeing whole my life. Whenever somebody got idea, for instance back in 1970's somebody came up the idea of transform coal into fuel for cars, and the research was so hot back then. Oil companies got scared, decided to drop the gas prices, guess what happened afterwards? These people who got involved in research realize that they can't compete with oil companies. They actually gave up the research. They do not have much of economic power to overcome the oil giants. Now, here is my point, 98% of market is oil and it is going to be extremely difficult to achieve the change. It is closer to "impossible"

Just think this way, if there is truly success with Hydrogen fuel cell which I hope for and if it true business happens, the price of gas is going to drop faster than you think and it can happen easily, that is because again oil companies have damn deep pocket and they can absorb the loss if there is no tomorrow. That is the real problem I am seeing. Here is proof, remember the oil spill in gulf last year? It is Big Problem Oil corp. and have they had issues with money? Not really and they did gone fine as if nothing happened.

Unless oil reserves have dried up, not much is going to make difference.

Bad News: Scientists Make Cheap Gas From Coal | Wired Science | Wired.com

This is something new but the message remains the same, it did mention that if oil price continues to rise then they will continue working on it. BUT it did mentioned that if oil price drops, they won't continue. See my point? The idea of coal to gas has been around since 1970s. I grew up area where there is so much coal mining, and did heard this.

lol don't be silly. oil companies also own all other companies including green technology.

if some genius invented cheap, efficient engine powered by hydrogen - simple... oil companies will own it or invest heavily in it. it's profitable for them. they will create hydrogen refueling stations and more. $$$$$$$$