Agbell Propaganda Piece In New York Times Blog Article

[seb]

Yes, you are assuming. The OVERWHELMING majority of dhh kids are inclusion mainstreamed (meaning not even any specialized programs) If mainstreaming automaticly equated with an excellent education then the employment level with the pediatric dhh population would be sky high. Have you ever spoken with hearing mainstream teachers? They will tell you that they see the exact same things they always did.......most dhh kids HAVE been mainstreamed for decades now. We haven't seen a huge boost in academic, career and life acheivement. Yes, there are really bad stories coming out of the schools and programs for the deaf......but the overwhelming majority of students from there, were mainstreamed previously. It's also not as if the mainstream offers supeoir results..... You do realize that a mainstreamed kid isn't always the minimal accomodations doing on grade level work" kid right? Often mainstreamed kids may graduate with a certificate of attendance, or low literacy levels.......I have a friend who is a social worker for the dhh, and he's said he has encountered a lot of low level literacy (ie still has trouble with the difference between boycotted and boycotting) even with mainstreamed people. So it's actually a lot more complex then just demonizing deaf schools. Are there bad ones? Of course....There are also really good ones as well, that send their kids to competitive colleges or skilled job training, and or educate difficult to educate students (ie kids with LD, intellectucal disabilties etc)

I was pretty specific about the type of program that has shown the most success. Yes, I have talked to hearing mainstreamed teachers. My kids went to a elementary school that had the county deaf education school on site, the deaf kids spent half of their day with each other and the other half mainstreamed with the hearing kids. Being in education myself I had a number of conversations with them. I was also an IA teacher so I had my share of special ed kids coming through my program and some were deaf. I didn't use ASL but taught them as I did foreign language kids using a lot of demo's and handouts. They all did pretty well in the class and I never had any issues with any of my special ed kids, only the so called normal ones. The problem is the bad schools need to be held accountable just as the public schools are and if they can't pass muster, they need to be brought up to speed.

 

[hoichi]

You are assuming that the ONLY thing that a kid learns at a Deaf school is ASL, ASL and ASL. Yes, SOME Deaf schools are really .....not that great. BUT, at the good Deaf schools, and good dhh programs, they get an ALL over comprehensive approach..... content taught in sign, English literacy, Cued Speech, speech therapy etc etc etc..............

That's what I was referring to and used as an example in a earlier post. hoichi seems to want a mother of a 2 year old child with only a mild hearing loss in one ear and a severe loss in the other to only be taught using ASL.

no place have i stated this. no place. its not at all what i believe..do you want to actually argue against what i actually do state? give it a try..

He obviously has never had children and doesn't seem to realize that a two year old child is frustrated many times because his vocabulary is extremely limited (especially if he's male) and only includes maybe 50 words. However, I'm sure you read the article he linked, so you know what's going on.

im a father. and again thats besides the point of this thread.....this isnt about me (sheesh!!)

so
how does denying ASL acquisition help this child again?

 

[hoichi]

I was pretty specific about the type of program that has shown the most success. Yes, I have talked to hearing mainstreamed teachers. My kids went to a elementary school that had the county deaf education school on site, the deaf kids spent half of their day with each other and the other half mainstreamed with the hearing kids. Being in education myself I had a number of conversations with them. I was also an IA teacher so I had my share of special ed kids coming through my program and some were deaf. I didn't use ASL but taught them as I did foreign language kids using a lot of demo's and handouts. They all did pretty well in the class and I never had any issues with any of my special ed kids, only the so called normal ones. The problem is the bad schools need to be held accountable just as the public schools are and if they can't pass muster, they need to be brought up to speed.

this thread believe it or not
isnt about you.......

it is about an article, which i posted.
its about the actually statements the actual person who wrote the actual article stated......


it is in no way shape or from about you, who you screwed, who you want to screw, what you eat, what you take up your ass.....so on so forth

its not about you....

if your unable to actually discuss the actual op of this actual thread.
then leave the thread...


so
how does denying ASL language acquisition help this child?

 

[seb]

this thread believe it or not
isnt about you.......

it is about an article, which i posted.
its about the actually statements the actual person who wrote the actual article stated......


it is in no way shape or from about you, who you screwed, who you want to screw, what you eat, what you take up your ass.....so on so forth

its not about you....

if your unable to actually discuss the actual op of this actual thread.
then leave the thread...


so
how does denying ASL language acquisition help this child?

And as I said it isn't about you either. It's about a woman and her conflicting information about what to do for her 2 year old child who only has a MILD hearing loss in one ear and a severe loss in the other. Obviously you don't have any children, especially two year olds because if you did you would know that all children that age struggle to find words for things they want and since their entire vocabulary is only about 50 words they point to what they want and throw tantrums when you as the parent don't know what they want. Personally as someone who also had a mild to severe hearing loss as a child I am pretty sure that this little boy will do just fine in a regular school, just as I did.

 

[seb]

no place have i stated this. no place. its not at all what i believe..do you want to actually argue against what i actually do state? give it a try..




im a father. and again thats besides the point of this thread.....this isnt about me (sheesh!!)

so
how does denying ASL acquisition help this child again?

You may of not come out and said it directly and I really don't want to go thru all of it again to find it, but if you read any of these post you have inferred it time and again.

 

[hoichi]

You may of not come out and said it directly and I really don't want to go thru all of it again to find it, but if you read any of these post you have inferred it time and again.

for someone who wants to force english only on Deaf
you think you would actually understand english..

do you have anything positive to add to this thread, like actually discussing the topic, the op, the article i posted. the statements of the mother...

if you cant discuss that..
leave the thread.

now either contribute something or get lost

.

 

[hoichi]

And as I said it isn't about you either. It's about a woman and her conflicting information about what to do for her 2 year old child who only has a MILD hearing loss in one ear and a severe loss in the other.

yes so lets discuss the actual statements of this mother...can we? pls...

Obviously you don't have any children, especially two year olds because if you did you would know that all children that age struggle to find words for things they want and since their entire vocabulary is only about 50 words they point to what they want and throw tantrums when you as the parent don't know what they want. Personally as someone who also had a mild to severe hearing loss as a child I am pretty sure that this little boy will do just fine in a regular school, just as I did.

the mother didnt write in this article that her boy had tantrums and had a hard time communicating, even made sign up ...because thats what ever other 2 year does....

if you cant see that. its pointless your even here..
but lets discuss her actual statements what she wrote..she wrote it for a reason lets discuss her statements, come on...you can do it..i know you can...

also again the mild loss isnt the issue. the audiologist stated what to this women? what did this women think and state "made sense to her"

can you discuss it?

is their a psychological issue here preventing you from actually bieng able to discuss the actual statements of this women.?
pm me it....
lets keep this thread on the op, the statements of this mother, i even made it easy and provided them..

 

[seb]

for someone who wants to force english only on Deaf
you think you would actually understand english..

do you have anything positive to add to this thread, like actually discussing the topic, the op, the article i posted. the statements of the mother...

-I have discussed this topic with you but you aren't interested in anything that does not agree with your way of thinking. and as I said this thread is not about you but a two year old child and since you obviously don't have and have never had a two year old child, you unfortunately don't know what you are talking about.

if you cant discuss that..
leave the thread.

-I have told you I am done with the thread and you keep coming up with these crazy questions directed at me, so if you want me to stop than stop bringing questions my way. Also several others have agreed with what I have said and have also said so in this thread. So if you want the thread to be agree with hoichi, then say it in the title. This is obviously not a discussion it's a thread by someone who want's to be a dictator of it's content that solely agrees with his way of thinking.


.

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem, because I never said that. I have said I have no problem with people learning ASL as long as they also are taught to sign exact English, so they learn to speak as someone who speaks English does.

 

[seb]

this thread believe it or not
isnt about you.......

it is about an article, which i posted.
its about the actually statements the actual person who wrote the actual article stated......


it is in no way shape or from about you, who you screwed, who you want to screw, what you eat, what you take up your ass.....so on so forth

its not about you....

if your unable to actually discuss the actual op of this actual thread.
then leave the thread...


so
how does denying ASL language acquisition help this child?

How does it help him? He's two years old!

 

[hoichi]

How does it help him? He's two years old!

and how does denying ASL language acquisition help two year olds?

 

[hoichi]

You obviously have a reading comprehension problem, because I never said that. I have said I have no problem with people learning ASL as long as they also are taught to sign exact English, so they learn to speak as someone who speaks English does.

its the as long as part here....

i keep asking ill ask again WHY?

why this fetish with learning to speak as a parrot does?

why not accept peoples differences, why this assimilate or else attitude?
and one more thing..

can we pls pretty pls with cute Deafies signing on top, actually discuss the actual statements in the actual article...
come..
i know you want to...

 

[hoichi]

have told you I am done with the thread and you keep coming up with these crazy questions directed at me, so if you want me to stop than stop bringing questions my way. Also several others have agreed with what I have said and have also said so in this thread. So if you want the thread to be agree with hoichi, then say it in the title. This is obviously not a discussion it's a thread by someone who want's to be a dictator of it's content that solely agrees with his way of thinking.
.

if you are done with this thread...
then get lost..
thank you...

others who are not done with this, wish to have a discussion...about what this thread is actually about, this mothers article in the nytblog, what she stated in it, and what those statements actually are....

so
get lost

 

[seb]

yes so lets discuss the actual statements of this mother...can we? pls...



the mother didnt write in this article that her boy had tantrums and had a hard time communicating, even made sign up ...because thats what ever other 2 year does....

-She is obviously a first time mother with a two year old and does not know that all two year olds act this way. I am speaking from experience, I have had children and know how two year olds act just like her son did. I also had a mild and severe loss as a child, never learned ASL, never had to have speech therapy, speak English fluently and yes, when I was two I struggled to find words for objects or things I hadn't learned to verbalize yet. Just as this child is doing.

if you cant see that. its pointless your even here..
but lets discuss her actual statements what she wrote..she wrote it for a reason lets discuss her statements, come on...you can do it..i know you can..

-[ASL was not mentioned as an option. Because Sam has residual hearing — his loss is mild in one ear and moderate to severe in the other — I went along with their recommendation..]

also again the mild loss isnt the issue. the audiologist stated what to this women? what did this women think and state "made sense to her" It was not an audiologist who made this statement. [One friend, a SPEECH THERAPIST whose brother is deaf, told me not to sign at all with Sam because he would use it as a crutch instead of learning to speak. This made sense to me.]

can you discuss it?

-Absolutely and I think I already did in a previous post.

is their a psychological issue here preventing you from actually bieng able to discuss the actual statements of this women.?
pm me it....
lets keep this thread on the op, the statements of this mother, i even made it easy and provided them..

I have done so and you don't want to hear what I have said because it is polar opposite to your way of thinking. I also didn't know you were a mind reader and can tell why this women has written what she has and is also thinking. I know it's hard for you being deaf to understand this, but this child is not deaf and really doesn't need to learn ASL to communicate and if we look back on this child in several years he will probably be like most five year olds getting ready to enter Kindergarten.

 

[dogmom]

The mother is a reflection of the patronizing and colonial attitude of "authorities" toward d/Deaf and ASL.....parallels other situations of "power over" and the facade of benign concern...

 

[seb]

if you are done with this thread...
then get lost..
thank you...

others who are not done with this, wish to have a discussion...about what this thread is actually about, this mothers article in the nytblog, what she stated in it, and what those statements actually are....

so
get lost

So you are a mind reader. Since we know what this woman said, how exactly are you going to ascertain what this women statements actually are? This is getting more interesting by the minute. We have a discussion and a carnival sideshow all in one.

 

[dogmom]

sigh...i don't see why the child *should have to be* audiologically deaf only, to be able to benefit from ASL. Why prevent this child <who as far as we can tell, is sighted> from utilizing their best sense, which is sight, to fully access the world? Why prevent s/he from being with peers with whom s/he can identify and be totally part of everything <as opposed to missing out on all the kinds of side conversations and innuendos that occur in everyday conversation>? I have an audiologically mild hearing "loss" and miss certain consonants and phrases. Access to a visual language makes the most sense for the kid in this article- and that language is ASL. Full, rich, all its own. and written English...full, rich, on its own. The kid shouldn't have to compromise for the parent. That's the parent's job.

 

[seb]

its the as long as part here....

i keep asking ill ask again WHY?

why this fetish with learning to speak as a parrot does?

-I will ask again and maybe one of these times you will give an answer, why does this hearing child need to learn ASL?

why not accept peoples differences, why this assimilate or else attitude?
and one more thing..

-I have no problem accepting peoples differences, do it all the time. I do have a problem with someone who wants to force someone to teach their child ASL for no apparent reason. I had a mild and severe hearing loss as a child and learned to speak English without having to rely on what is basically learning a foreign language. Although if the mother wants to teach her son ASL, German, French, etc. just for fun, I'm perfectly okay with it.

can we pls pretty pls with cute Deafies signing on top, actually discuss the actual statements in the actual article...
come..
i know you want to...

In case you haven't noticed you live in North America which is largely an English speaking continent. So unless you can converse as those around you do than you are doing yourself a disservice.

 

[seb]

and how does denying ASL language acquisition help two year olds?

You're answering a question with a question. Just try answering a question just once, pretty please!

 

[dogmom]

I also strongly disagree that North America is a largely English-peaking continent. Many to most people in the world know and use more than one language, only the U.S. is behind in this...

 

[seb]

I find it sad that there is such a hard push for strictly on or the other. There are too many studies and reports that provide ample evidence that children who sign excel not only in education but in life.... Not just in dollars and jobs... But in happiness, self esteem, and general contentment. Bilingualism is not a hardship for hearing kids... Why should it be one for deaf kids? The fact that the child is hard of hearing should ease some fears... Yet, not possible with fearamongers ranting how sign will hold the child back...

Can you provide some links for these studies. I would like to read them.