Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

[jillio]

In your case you have only seen a few successful oral deaf kids, in my case I have only seen a few kids not be successful with oral language and in my case all of them have been because parents have not followed through the way they needed to.

How exactly are you defining success? We need an operational definition here, in order to make comparative judgements of success of oral vs bilingually educated children.

 

[jillio]

Shel you are right, I do not hold the entire Deaf community responsible for their believes against raising my children orally. I am just very careful about who I expose them too. You are right there very mean people out there and no I cannot protect them against everyone but I will do everything in my power to protect my children against people like Jillo for her to bring up a couple of posts my son made that did not use perfect grammar that was wrong and mean.
I do expose my children to people that are Deaf and just sign but people that are respectful to my children. There are very kind, understanding, and reasonable Deaf people in our area and these are the people that I help my children seek out.[/QUO

Once again, jackie, all I said was that I had seen examples of his writing. Youare the one that made references to his grammar. You are projecting. And how is it mean to make an accurate assessment of someone's language skills. Do you prefer to live in denial, or to be able to recognize area of delay in order to properly address them? What is more important to you....portraying your child as advanced in his language skills, or actually do that which will assist him in becoming advanced in his language skills?

 

[jillio]

You are right my children hear very well but no they do not hear everything and in a classroom with background noise it is harder for them to hear and that is why we have fought for CART and have won with my daughter and if I have to take my son's case to federal court I will.

And, since you brought this up, will you please address my earlier question regarding the fact that CI is believed to be the least expensive educational alternative because it supposedly allows more deaf children to be mainstreamed without additional services.

 

[jillio]

What was the purpose of you mention my son's writing skills. I have never mention them. I know what your purpose was even if you will not admit it.

Yes, dear, you did mention them, and you mentioned his reading levels as well, which are directly related to writing skills. Had you not mentioned them, I would have had no reason to respond to you with, "I have seen examples of your son's writing."

 

[shel90]

The dearf community was not aware of shel's brother, as he was placed in his early years in an oral environment that restricted his exposure tothe deaf community. Once they became aware of him and his needs, by his enrollment in a deaf educational facility, they did what was necessary for him, and he has blossomed. I personally can attest to his advanced use of language and his ability to think creatively and critically. His language use, and his ability to represent concept in unique and creative plays with language is amazing. Why? Because he finally was exposed to the environment that allowed him to develop his innate cognitive and intellectual capabilities rather than being restricted to a disabling oral environment.

and as a result, my brother's cognitive reasoning, creative, and problem solving skills are far superior than mine. So, despite developing my proficiency in English, I still have trouble in some areas of critical thinking. I have to really work hard at thinking of different strategies or whatever to address a situation because I was denied the opportunity to practice them in an all hearing enviornment. I spent most of my time in the classroom focusing on trying to catch everything everyone was saying rather than utilizing my critical thinking skills. However, for my brother, it is a no-brainer for him cuz in an educational setting where language was fully accessible to him, he didnt have to worry about using all his focus trying to keep up but rather he was able to put his critical thinking skills into practice. If he had been kept in the oral-only environment any longer, for sure he would not be where he is. If I had both like he did, I am sure I would have had much higher literacy skills than I do now but no, my biggest accomplishment according to most of my teachers was perfecting my speech skills.

 

[jillio]

It is also a shame that parents of CI users and CI users see you as that type of member of the deaf community that is keeping them out.

At least I am trying to make a differences - and you flaming and running others off this site.

Once again, your perceptions are in error. I work with children and young adults who are CI users, and they perceive nothing of the kind from me. Nor do the deaf adult CI users that I am in contact with. Inf act, your assessments are exactly the opposite of what you seem to think. I work to involve the CI users in the Deaf community. It is the oralists that seek to keep them out. I fail to se how you can see advocating the uise of sign and speech, as well as exposure to the Deaf communioty is an effort to keep these kids fromthe Deaf community. Reality is, the restriction to an oral only environment prevents these children from not only participating in the Deaf communioty, but from full participation in the hearing community, as well. Your bias has you seeing things from a bass-awkards perspective.

Andf, exactly how is it that you are making a difference? Additionally, the flaming that has gone on inthese recent posts has come fromthose who are attempting to protray shel and myself....innaccurately I might add....as anti-CI.

 

[jillio]

So if I want to be a member I must learn the secret handshake?

That is a truly asinine remark. And it is evidence of your total lack of knowledge regarding the foundations of Deaf culture and the community. And, you are the first to accuse others of being judgemental. A bit on the hypocritical side, don't you think? Nopt to mention which, it reduces the very valid discussion of educational and linguistic competence of deaf children to a petty and emotional level.

 

[jillio]

and as a result, my brother's cognitive reasoning, creative, and problem solving skills are far superior than mine. So, despite developing my proficiency in English, I still have trouble in some areas of critical thinking. I have to really work hard at thinking of different strategies or whatever to address a situation because I was denied the opportunity to practice them in an all hearing enviornment. I spent most of my time in the classroom focusing on trying to catch everything everyone was saying rather than utilizing my critical thinking skills. However, for my brother, it is a no-brainer for him cuz in an educational setting where language was fully accessible to him, he didnt have to worry about using all his focus trying to keep up but rather he was able to put his critical thinking skills into practice. If he had been kept in the oral-only environment any longer, for sure he would not be where he is. If I had both like he did, I am sure I would have had much higher literacy skills than I do now but no, my biggest accomplishment according to most of my teachers was perfecting my speech skills.

And, you have made great strides towards overcoming the disabling oral envirnment to which you were subjected. The shame is that you had to work twice as hard to achieve as would have been necessary.

 

[fredfam1]

It is true, shel.. Oral only environments serve to further handicap a deaf child by creating language delays that affect cognitive and psycho-social development.

jillio, this has been proven. Why does the hearing community continue
to fight it and insist on oralisum only?
Even hearing people are reading the research and using
sing language from birth with their hearing children in order to stimulate
and boost their IQs. I am scheduled to begin teaching a Baby ASL
class in 08 at our public library. We already have tremendous interest
in the class and we haven't even done the addvertising yet! This is in
a very rural community!
If I hadn't used sign language from birth, would my daughter be graduating
from George Fox (all with scholarships),? She had an undiagnosed hearing
problem from birth. We just found out 3 years ago! ASL provided a means
of communication from birth. And she is brilliant! (If I do say so myself)

 

[jillio]

jillio, this has been proven. Why does the hearing community continue
to fight it and insist on oralisum only?
Even hearing people are reading the research and using
sing language from birth with their hearing children in order to stimulate
and boost their IQs. I am scheduled to begin teaching a Baby ASL
class in 08 at our public library. We already have tremendous interest
in the class and we haven't even done the addvertising yet! This is in
a very rural community!
If I hadn't used sign language from birth, would my daughter be graduating
from George Fox (all with scholarships),? She had an undiagnosed hearing
problem from birth. We just found out 3 years ago! ASL provided a means
of communication from birth. And she is brilliant! (If I do say so myself)

It is beyond me why they continue to ignore the research, fredfam. It would appear that the motive is to make the deafness less visable, and that the true definition of inclusion in these individuals would rest on the concept of appearing to be less deaf and more hearing. To me that is a skewed perspective. The true concept of inclusion means providing indiviuals with the skills necessary to allow them to function optimally both within the majority culture and without.

Congrats on your daughter's successes. I also attribute my son's academic and social success with the early use of sign. I had the advantage of being aware of his hearing loss, however. You, my friend, are one of the progressively thinking parents that truly make a difference. I applaud you!

It would appear, however, that this would make both you and I anti-CI in the limited assessment of some.LOL.

 

[loml]

allows them to gain language through incidental exposure the same way that a hearing child gains language through incidental exposure.

If and only if the child is provided an accurate model of the language. Giving a child signs through PSE, SimCom, SEEII etc. is not "English on the hands", nor ASL.

Accurate modeling of ASL is not the real world of deaf children with hearing parents.

Even hearing people are reading the research and using
sing language from birth with their hearing children in order to stimulate
and boost their IQs

Hearing people are NOT using SIGN LANGUAGE, they are using signs borrowed from ASL in "plunking" it into their English spoken sentence. The jury is out regarding the "boosting of IQ".

 

[vallee]

And you are also post lingually deafened, and that is a variable that must be recognized. Additionally, you continually equate opposition to an oral only environment as anti-CI, and your assumption is in error. It does, however, speak volumes about your attitude toward language and hearing, and the ethnocentric persepctive you take toward the deaf student.

I am post lingually, I guess a 3 year old who losses her hearing is post lingually.

If my pro-family, pro-oral, pro-total communications speaks volumes of me, I'm proud of it.

 

[vallee]

The Deaf community already has CI members but as for oral deaf people who dont know sign but want to learn sign, they are accepted but if they say they dont need ASL dont need to learn, then nope, they are not going to be accepted cuz how are they gonna communicate with everyone in the Deaf community?

I dont know if u know this, I was rejected by the Deaf community in my early 20s cuz of my refusal to learn ASL and when I finally started learning it, I still wasnt accepted 100% but I accept my responsibility for devaluing what they value which is ASL. I dont hold it against them for rejecting me..it is a fact of life.

Just like if I want to be part of the Spanish speaking community and expect them to speak English at all times on my behalf, that would be disrespectful to their cultural values. Why is the Deaf community being held at different standards?

My husband is Asian and he does not speak Korean or Japanese or even Fillipo, so he can't be part of that culture. My daughter who is also Fillipo can't be part either.

If is means that the only way I am accepted as a deaf individual is to learn ASL, then no. I am deaf. I will not belittle myself to you must do this inorder to be accepted. Thats no more than a secret society.

That is what I mean by a secret handshake. I will just enjoy my little deaf/hoh community here in Nashville.

 

[vallee]

It is unfortunate, indeed, that you and others like you hold teachers of the deaf resposnible for remedicating the delays in these chidlren that you have created. It is indeed much easier to prevent these delays than to correct them. Why should teachers of the deaf be held responsible for the creation of the problem when they in fact, had nothing to do with it? I find your attitude as an educator appalling.

I expect teachers to teach!

 

[jillio]

If and only if the child is provided an accurate model of the language. Giving a child signs through PSE, SimCom, SEEII etc. is not "English on the hands", nor ASL.

Accurate modeling of ASL is not the real world of deaf children with hearing parents.


That as well, is innacurrate. Studies have shown that, even when supplied with a less than fluent model of ASL, the deaf child's use of proper grammatical markings and use of concept surpasses the model. This is another study I have cited in the past.
Hearing people are NOT using SIGN LANGUAGE, they are using signs borrowed from ASL in "plunking" it into their English spoken sentence. The jury is out regarding the "boosting of IQ".

Exactly. Which is what PSE, and all manually codes systems of English, including CS, are doing. They are attempting to make a language which is linear and conforms to the rules of the way the auditory system processes information, conform to the way that the eye processes information in a spatial and time oriented manner. That is why these systems are confusing for the deaf child. However, given a model of ASL, even provided by late learning signers, allows the child to receive and process that information intended for processing by the visual system, therefore reducing the confusion associated with the MCEs. As well, because a deaf child so readily processes that which is received visually, they will naturally begin to adopt a visual syntax in their use of the language, thus accounting for the fact that they surpass their less than fluent models.

As well, standardized tests measure knowledge based inforamtion more than they measure innate intellectual capabilities. Therefore, the child with a greater ability to access and use language will score higher on these tests. Bilingualism provides an atmosphere that influences a child's increased ability to access and use language in all its forms.

 

[jillio]

I am post lingually, I guess a 3 year old who losses her hearing is post lingually.

If my pro-family, pro-oral, pro-total communications speaks volumes of me, I'm proud of it.

How is it that you are pro oral and pro TC at the same time? And it is Deaf culture that prompted me to make the comment regarding your attitude speaking volumes. Perhaps you missed that, but as it stands, you are choosing to convolute that which has been said in order to provide a distorted picture. And yes, you are post lingual.

And, if you are pro-TC, do you advocate for the use of sign with all deaf children?

 

[jillio]

My husband is Asian and he does not speak Korean or Japanese or even Fillipo, so he can't be part of that culture. My daughter who is also Fillipo can't be part either.

If is means that the only way I am accepted as a deaf individual is to learn ASL, then no. I am deaf. I will not belittle myself to you must do this inorder to be accepted. Thats no more than a secret society.

That is what I mean by a secret handshake. I will just enjoy my little deaf/hoh community here in Nashville.

So you consider the use of ASL to be belittling? Wow!

And you are mistaking the difference between the deaf community and Deaf culture. That is a huge problem in your interpretations. And, your little deaf/hoh community in Nashville is very orally oriented. However, there is also a huge Deaf community in Nashville that is not orally biased.

 

[vallee]

How is it that you are pro oral and pro TC at the same time? And it is Deaf culture that prompted me to make the comment regarding your attitude speaking volumes. Perhaps you missed that, but as it stands, you are choosing to convolute that which has been said in order to provide a distorted picture. And yes, you are post lingual.

And, if you are pro-TC, do you advocate for the use of sign with all deaf children?

I do believe in ASL for children. I have used it in my classroom. What I am against is how you treat other parents here on the site. You also belittle my audiogram results. I'm proud of my hard work. I am post lingual, I know that. You say that like it is a dirty word.

 

[vallee]

So you consider the use of ASL to be belittling? Wow!

And you are mistaking the difference between the deaf community and Deaf culture. That is a huge problem in your interpretations. And, your little deaf/hoh community in Nashville is very orally oriented. However, there is also a huge Deaf community in Nashville that is not orally biased.[/QUOT

I view your view that I am not part of the deaf community because I do not agree with you.

 

[jillio]

I expect teachers to teach!

Then why is it that they obviously are not teaching deaf children in the mainstreamed programs?