Acoustic Characteristics of the Speech of Young Cochlear Implant Users

You are so right, my son made maybe about 5 posts. In 5 posts, she was able to tell what my son's writing skills were. But we she did do was prove my point and I was able to show my son what type of people are in the Deaf culture. I know that not all Deaf people are mean like Jillo and I happy that my children have positive Deaf and deaf people in their lives that accept them as they are and as they chose to live their lives.

First of all, you are overly defensive about the fact that I said I had seen examples of your son's writing. Could that be because you have intentionally portrayed his use of written English as superior to his actual skills in an effort to promote your personal philosophy of oralism?

Secondly, your statement regarding Deaf Culture is one of the most bigoted and judgemental statement even you have managed to make. Pray tell, what exactly is mean about saying I have seen samples of your son's writing? I have asked you that question prior, and as usual, you have failed to answer it. However, if you are going to continue making such accusations that you cannot substantiate, I will ask you again. Please try to answer this time.


You, by portraying Deaf Culture as negative to your own deaf child, are making an extremely negative statement to him regarding his own deafness. You are in fact, telling him in so many words, "Do not associate with deaf people. They are undesirable. They are beneath you. You must portray yourself as hearing in order to not be judged on an inferior status with deaf people." As an educator, I owuld think you would have more awareness of the psychological harm of implicit messages such as these, particularly in reference to your own children.

Just as a side note if anyone knew my son knew that his writing mistakes are caused by his need to finish everything especially writing as fast as he can and this is not caused by his deafnes but by being a 15 year old boy.

So, you admit that your son's writing has some errors that are consistent. And, these errors, you should also realize as an educator of the deaf, are the very consistent errors seen in all deaf who have less than an age appropriate grasp of English grammar. Is that why you have forbidden your son to communicate with other deaf on AD? Sothat his errors will not be seen and contradict your claims of advanced performance? As I recall, he was treated very cordially on AD. No one said a word to him about his grammar. The only time the issue has been addressed is when you brought it up in this thread. You put yourself out there for all to see, jackie, and then when you are called on your inconsistencies and contradictions, want to call people names and insult Deaf Culture. Perhaps the solution would be for you to be a bit more careful about what you claim./COLOR]

Someone PM today and told that she hopes I do not hold what Jillo said about my son against all members of the Deaf culture. I would not do that, what I will do is have children avoid people like Jillo and I will warn them that there are people like her around.

Yeah, I the big bad boogie man, because I spend my days overcoming the language delays of children that the oral method of education has handoicapped. Tell me, jackie, how does oanyone learn to improve without correction of their errors? You seem to think the solution is to ignore the problem.

I would also like to tell other members if you are trying to talk to parents of deaf children not knowing what approach to take with their children do not follow Jillo lead. This is one of tha main reason we chose the oral approach, we wanted our children to feel accepted. When my children were diagnosis, I was not told that they could be oral, I was told they would never talk or read above a 3rd grade level. I did my own research and encountered how some members of Deaf culture feel about oral deaf.


You choose the oral method because of your ethnocentric attitude. It is not your chidlren that are not accepted jackie, it is your bigoted attitude toward the signing deaf and DEaf Culture. You choose the oral method, by your own admissions in numerous other posts, because you believe that it will allow your deaf chidlren to fully integrate into hearing society. It has nothing to do with their deafness, but with your desire to make their deafness less obvious. Be honest about your motives.

And, If you want to accuse me of being mean now, go right ahead and do so. I've said nothing that others aren't already thinking. If youthink you are going tosingle me out and hurl insults and make totally unfounded accusations and be accepted and tolerated, then you are as much mistaken about that as you are about everything else.
 
Reading everyones point of view, I can understand
both sides of this issue. The parents are wanting
to do what they have been told is best for their
child and that they have a limited window of
oportunity that must be acted on now or loose
it forever.

And the Deaf cultural side who sees nothing wrong
with not being able to use hearing as a communication
modality when the child can prosper just as well with
out that sense.

So it seems that the real culprit here are the people
who are giving misinformation to parents of Deaf
children. By telling them that learning ASL may
impede the success of the CI they are actually
causing neurological harm to these children. They
are delaying synaptic formation and neurological
connections that would have occured from day
one of birth if they had hearing. Those same
connections can be formed with the use of sign
language.
The delays necessary in CI procedures
are essential, but the delay in aquireing language
is not. I think that studies would show the children
who had access to sign language from birth will
have been better able to understand and utilize
their new CI system.

So whatever choice the parent makes for their
child, CI or No CI, the parent needs to learn ASL
NOW and communicate with that child befor
it is verbal! That would insure success no matter
what choice the parents made for their child because
with either decision the child will have begun to
understand the use of language!
 
Reading everyones point of view, I can understand
both sides of this issue. The parents are wanting
to do what they have been told is best for their
child and that they have a limited window of
oportunity that must be acted on now or loose
it forever.

And the Deaf cultural side who sees nothing wrong
with not being able to use hearing as a communication
modality when the child can prosper just as well with
out that sense.

So it seems that the real culprit here are the people
who are giving misinformation to parents of Deaf
children. By telling them that learning ASL may
impede the success of the CI they are actually
causing neurological harm to these children. They
are delaying synaptic formation and neurological
connections that would have occured from day
one of birth if they had hearing. Those same
connections can be formed with the use of sign
language.
The delays necessary in CI procedures
are essential, but the delay in aquireing language
is not. I think that studies would show the children
who had access to sign language from birth will
have been better able to understand and utilize
their new CI system.

So whatever choice the parent makes for their
child, CI or No CI, the parent needs to learn ASL
NOW and communicate with that child befor
it is verbal! That would insure success no matter
what choice the parents made for their child because
with either decision the child will have begun to
understand the use of language!

As always, fredfam, great post!:gpost:
 
Not all oral deaf adults and children read lips. I have 2 oral deaf teenagers. One reads lips very well and she actually signs much better then her brother. While my son does not read lips at all and his signing skills are very limited although they have both been expose to same amount of sign language. Even in my house that I have children with a hearing loss, I make sure that each of their unique needs are being met.

That's great that you make sure their needs are to be meet, I like that about a parent who thinks of their children before themselves.

I wasn't aware that some deafs cannot read lips, I thought they all do in my knowledge. While I do think that spoken speech are important especially in the hearing world, where they (deaf people) have to learn to communicate with others who doesn't know any basic sign language.

I'm very aware that some deaf cannot speak either, I've had friends who don't speak as good as I do, or don't speak at all. I somewhat feels bad for them because I wish they could learn to speak too, It helps them have a quality life in the hearing world. IMO. ;)
 
So whatever choice the parent makes for their
child, CI or No CI, the parent needs to learn ASL
NOW and communicate with that child befor
it is verbal! That would insure success no matter
what choice the parents made for their child because
with either decision the child will have begun to
understand the use of language!

I agreed! no argument from me. :thumb:
 
SO LET ME SAY THIS FOR ALL PARENTS WHO ARE READING THIS THREAD WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT GETTING A COCHLEAR IMPLANT FOR THEIR CHILD. A COCHLEAR IMPLANT IS NOT A MIRACLE. IT CAN BE A VERY USEFUL TOOL WHEN USED CORRECTLY AND WHEN ALL THE SUPPORT SERVICES ARE THERE AND THE KEY THING IS THAT YOU AS A PARENT HAS TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON EVERYTHING. IT IS NOT AN EASY PATH. I AM TELLING THIS AS A PARENT TO 2 ORAL DEAF TEENAGERS THAT HAVE COCHLEAR IMPLANTS, NOT ONLY AM I A PARENT BUT I AM ALSO AN ORAL TEACHER OF DEAF AND AN AUDITORY VERBAL THERAPIST.


QFT!
 
So whatever choice the parent makes for their
child, CI or No CI, the parent needs to learn ASL
NOW and communicate with that child befor
it is verbal! That would insure success no matter
what choice the parents made for their child because
with either decision the child will have begun to
understand the use of language!

:gpost:!!
 
Your son is a member of AD or Am I reading wrong? What's his user's name on AD?

This is why we have told him he cannot go on this site because of people like yourself will be judging him, thank you you have just prove my point, I have shown him your comment and he now understands how the Deaf culture feels about oral deaf kids.


Cut and pasted from her post on page 4 of this thread.
 
After all these many months and posts, Jackie thinks Jillio is deaf!? :giggle:
 
Why dont u try teaching those kids who have suffered from the very programs u support? Try to teach them how to read and write at the ages of 6, 7, or 8 when their language level is at 2 years old. Then again, I dont see u willing to take that step anyway.


It is not about how we feel about the kids themselves..it is about how we feel about the kinds of approaches and practices that makes language inaccessible to them. Apparently, u do not understand that cuz your only focus is on the successful ones.

Why didn't their parents?

We raised a deaf child and made certain that she did receive a proper education. If you are getting children admitted into your school who are 8 years old with a 2 year old language level, then put that question to their parents, not to me.

While you are it, knock off the high and mighty Mother Theresa attitude, you teach deaf children because that is your job, and you get paid for it.
 
Not for the accusations you make towards other people.

You having "strong foundation for everything you said"...... Where have I said CI is a miracle?

Waiting for "strong foundation"..

Cloggy,

You will be waiting a long time!

Rick
 
Kaitin,
Thank you for finding the references... Still, I did not define CI as a miracle..
It's not CI that's the miracle...


Define "miracle".....



What misinformation?
I never called CI a miracle, I never said ASL is never needed. Who said that, and why are you projecting that on me... stretching again!!


How about that stretch job wherein we support how deaf children were educated in the 1800s (and in America for you no less) because we chose to mainstream our children, I think she is beginning to lose it.
 
I personally think that my own son is a miracle....blah, blah blah

what a shocker! Of course you do, as this is yet another opportunity for you to interject into any discussion how wonderful a parent you think you are.
 
My CIs are miracles! I'm sure many feel the same way. Good luck Rick, Cloggy, Jackie and other CI users. Enjoy the CI moments.

We do and we will continue to do so as there is nothing the Jillios of the Deaf Community can do to stop the ever increasing numbers of both children and deaf adults who are getting cochlear implants.

Thanks for your support!
 
You choose the oral method because of your ethnocentric attitude. It is not your chidlren that are not accepted jackie, it is your bigoted attitude toward the signing deaf and DEaf Culture. You choose the oral method, by your own admissions in numerous other posts, because you believe that it will allow your deaf chidlren to fully integrate into hearing society. It has nothing to do with their deafness, but with your desire to make their deafness less obvious. Be honest about your motives.

You are a walking talking cliche, parroting every line out of the anti-ci agenda.
 
Why didn't their parents?

We raised a deaf child and made certain that she did receive a proper education. If you are getting children admitted into your school who are 8 years old with a 2 year old language level, then put that question to their parents, not to me.

While you are it, knock off the high and mighty Mother Theresa attitude, you teach deaf children because that is your job, and you get paid for it.

The probability is that "their parents" were told to avoid ASL and focus
entirely on oralisum. As I stated befor this WILL DAMAGE A CHILDS
NEUROLOGICAL DEVELOPMENT. The childs lack of development in the
area of language aquisition is the fault of so called professionals who
intentionally deprive these children of neurological input during critical
"windows of oportunity". The parents are doing what they were told
to do.

And teachers are right in line there with Mother T, because parents
don't listen to them and administrators don't support them and other
proffesionals tie their hands behind their backs and ask them to do the
impossible while sabotaging their efforts. Shel, I applaude you.
 
You are so right, my son made maybe about 5 posts. In 5 posts, she was able to tell what my son's writing skills were. But we she did do was prove my point and I was able to show my son what type of people are in the Deaf culture. I know that not all Deaf people are mean like Jillo and I happy that my children have positive Deaf and deaf people in their lives that accept them as they are and as they chose to live their lives.

Just as a side note if anyone knew my son knew that his writing mistakes are caused by his need to finish everything especially writing as fast as he can and this is not caused by his deafnes but by being a 15 year old boy.

Someone PM today and told that she hopes I do not hold what Jillo said about my son against all members of the Deaf culture. I would not do that, what I will do is have children avoid people like Jillo and I will warn them that there are people like her around.

I would also like to tell other members if you are trying to talk to parents of deaf children not knowing what approach to take with their children do not follow Jillo lead. This is one of tha main reason we chose the oral approach, we wanted our children to feel accepted. When my children were diagnosis, I was not told that they could be oral, I was told they would never talk or read above a 3rd grade level. I did my own research and encountered how some members of Deaf culture feel about oral deaf.


Jackie,


Pay no attention to her, I think we all understand the difference between the majority of the Deaf community that is tolerant of those with cochlear implants and accepts that it is a parent's right to make that decision for their child and the Jillios of the Deaf community who are still anti-ci.

It is truly sad that she chose to attack your son and as you saw in a later post she then accused you of attempting to make children the "poster child" for cis, something that she accused me of doing with my own child. Understand that is her defense mechanism to attack those parents of successfully implanted children while she then goes on to tell everyone how her own son is a "miracle".

I think we all understand that parents need to find what is best for their unique and individual child and that there is no "one size fits all" approach to raisng any child, even a deaf one.
 
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