A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

[Jiro]

I'll give an example of what I mean: there are some who prefer to emphasize or prioritize the development of ASL with their children, as my family did and does (in our case, we emphasize ASL because it's harder for us -- my husband and I are not yet fluent and we don't live and work in an asl immersive community, so we put much more work into constructing and making sure the little one has an ASL environment).

I don't understand. I see that you live in Boston area. You are basically in middle of quite a sizable deaf community. Boston University has one of the renowned deaf programs and there is Boston DPHH. Compared to many ADers in here, you have one of the best locations for immersive ASL environment.

Perhaps your ASL skill would progress much faster if you practice ASL outside the classroom. 1 deaf social event is equivalent to 3 ASL classes. There at Boston DPHH - you will most likely find people similar to your situation - deaf/hearing parents with deaf kids which can lead to your kid socializing with their kids. That's the easiest way to get your child in ASL environment. This doesn't take much work to "construct" the ASL environment for your child.

 

[jillio]

I don't understand. I see that you live in Boston area. You are basically in middle of quite a sizable deaf community. Boston University has one of the renowned deaf programs and there is Boston DPHH. Compared to many ADers in here, you have one of the best locations for immersive ASL environment.

Perhaps your ASL skill would progress much faster if you practice ASL outside the classroom. 1 deaf social event is equivalent to 3 ASL classes. There at Boston DPHH - you will most likely find people similar to your situation - deaf/hearing parents with deaf kids which can lead to your kid socializing with their kids. That's the easiest way to get your child in ASL environment. This doesn't take much work.

Since that is so easily accessable to her, I would suggest that she visit Boston U's deaf education and studies dept., and ask the research dept. about their psychologically and sociologically based research programs. I do believe she will find that they are getting the same results that we claim here.

 

[Jiro]

forgot to add one more - because you are in one of the best locations for immersive deaf environment... it doesn't take much work to "construct" the ASL environment for your child.

Hearing parents take their kids to playground, right? and there... the kids play with other kids and parents meet other parents. It's that easy.

 

[jillio]

forgot to add one more - because you are in one of the best locations for immersive deaf environment... it doesn't take much work to "construct" the ASL environment for your child.

Hearing parents take their kids to playground, right? and there... the kids play with other kids and parents meet other parents. It's that easy.

I moved 650 miles to immerse my child in an ASL environment. I would have loved to have had such opportunities at my back door.

 

[Jiro]

I moved 650 miles to immerse my child in an ASL environment. I would have loved to have had such opportunities at my back door.

whoa mama

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

Wirelessly posted



just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't mean they don't understand what you are saying.

as for the underemployment of childhood CI users, i don't believe enough time has passed to study that, though i did recently come across a small study that was about the subject, i will find it again and write what it says. (in my memory it was only a handful of people and a few were in college, others in vocational training...i really don't remember the conclusions.)

then why the sarcasm?

if you knew i was being sarcastic then you knew i understood, so why bother to try and smear my comprehension skills?

 

[iowaboy]

Intended "Human" not Civil. Edited.

Our hearing center bombarded us with information on all the options, including no medical intervention, and the use of ASL. Even after we had made the decision to implant, they still questioned us and made us re-hash it.

 

[faire_jour]

Wirelessly posted

forgot to add one more - because you are in one of the best locations for immersive deaf environment... it doesn't take much work to "construct" the ASL environment for your child.

Hearing parents take their kids to playground, right? and there... the kids play with other kids and parents meet other parents. It's that easy.

she does provide an immersive ASL enviroment for her child, she attends a bi-bi school.

 

[jillio]

Intended "Human" not Civil. Edited.

Our hearing center bombarded us with information on all the options, including no medical intervention, and the use of ASL. Even after we had made the decision to implant, they still questioned us and made us re-hash it.

Gotcha. You were very lucky to have one of the ethical centers. However, was the information presented from a hearing specialist or a deaf individual?

 

[Jiro]

she does provide an immersive ASL enviroment for her child, she attends a bi-bi school.

that's it? I'm hoping it's not like Amy Chua.

 

[jillio]

Wirelessly posted



she does provide an immersive ASL enviroment for her child, she attends a bi-bi school.

Oh, I see. So, you have been to Boston and visited Grendel and the child's school?

Perhaps you should go back and read the post that Jiro was replying to. When you only look at responses, you miss half the communication and it leads you to make errors in interpretation.

 

[posts from hell]

Wirelessly posted



she does provide an immersive ASL enviroment for her child, she attends a bi-bi school.

Again with the reading thing... Read what Jiro put in red.

 

[TXgolfer]

Unless you want to face the consequences of breaking the law. And yes, given the statistics regarding the number if childhood injuries and death that have been reduced since seat belt laws took effect, it is necessary unless you want to risk your child's life. But your argument is moot because the situation is completely uncomparable to the CI situation. Unless you can show me a single case of where a CI has saved a child's life, you are simply attempting to deflect from the topic. As usual when you are backed up against the wall with no logical argument.

Ah, so it is a choice.

 

[drphil]

Cochlear Implants are for bringing hearing NOT to save someone's life.
In keeping with the thread discussion- the other half whose parents decided their children shouldn't have an Implant-are their children rights infringed if they subsequently decide to get one-while still living at home ?

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[TXgolfer]

Cochlear Implants are for bringing hearing NOT to save someone's life.
In keeping with the thread discussion- the other half whose parents decided their children shouldn't have an Implant-are their children rights infringed if they subsequently decide to get one-while still living at home ?

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

Good question. I am LD but had I been born deaf I would be pissed if my parents opted for a CI. That's just me though.

 

[BecLak]

I have a question. Why it is that the trend (such as the lastest medical marvel) always ends up with a person or family paying out thousands of dollars and costing so much precious time running back and forth, when there is a much simpler, natural solution and accomodation which requires no more, and often much less effort and a lot less money to pursue?

 

[deafdyke]

Our hearing center bombarded us with information on all the options, including no medical intervention, and the use of ASL. Even after we had made the decision to implant, they still questioned us and made us re-hash it.

Hey that's awesome.
I think Grendel is phyiscally located in one of the tiny towns in Central MA, not really super close to Boston, right?

 

[GrendelQ]

that's it? I'm hoping it's not like Amy Chua.

I should have written that book -- our life is exactly the same just kidding ... not by a long shot

*Warning to those who hate when I reference our personal experience: the following is once again going to be about my family, in response to Jiro's concern about Li needing more opportunities to be with other ASL-using deaf*

Although my husband and I do need to find ways to 'get more ASL' without losing time w/the child -- I think our level of fluency is pretty poor -- Li herself has a great balance of ASL and spoken language immersion opps. This little one has had a pretty big schedule with a long daily commute since I met her at 1YO, but we think its worth it: a nearly 4 hour van trip a day with 4 other deaf kids to attend a bi-bi school (she leaves at 6:15am, arrives home at 4pm). Friday class is all-ASL, half of her days are voices-off ASL only. Before she turned 3, she was at an asl-based daycare at the same place (far away instead of with me at the child care center available at my workplace) and we also attended twice weekly playgroups: all ASL, with terps for new members, a resident psychologist, SLPs, and deaf teaching staff & director. Beautiful experience, but those 9am-12 sessions are so hard for working parents to attend, and the daycare ended with the school day, we couldn't have done it with traditional 9-5 jobs w/out flexibility -- and still, that took a lot of vacation days between the 2 of us for 2 years! Family ASL lessons on Saturdays, and my husband & I have attended ASL night classes at that same distant school, on alternating nights so one could stay home with the little one.

Most of the parents/families of her deaf school peers are hearing with a few exceptions, although we do mix it up with them on occasion. My daughter's best friend is also deaf, they take weekly soccer, swimming, and gymnastics together outside school/weekends, after which we lunch and/or have dinner. We can't find a deaf peer to join her for piano and kung fu, though. I think you are spot on with the socializing recommendation as a great way to learn and develop, although we haven't done the Boston deaf socials or coffee chats. When I do, I think I'll lurk anonymously until I feel like I can keep up so not to annoy the dickens out of everyone. We live close to Providence and my work commute to Boston is 3 hours a day -- tough to do that twice in a day to attend a social or stay in town and give up seeing the little one until morning, that evening time is so precious. Our families, long-time friends and neighbors use only the most basic signs, so in those interactions, spoken language is primary, although Li has been teaching ASL to her grandmother via skype.

One great approach a friend of ours took was to rent a suite in their house to a deaf couple -- they made life long friends (close for 18 years now) and were able to develop fluency across the whole family in this way. But our house is really too "cozy" (small) and no one would want to live with us out in the boonies

 

[GrendelQ]

Good point, OceanBreeze,

The video clearly shows the error here - where the mother is insisting the child answer orally and talks to her, without her CIs on, and without making sure that the child can see her first. There is no two-way communication in sign language here. The mother is attempting at some sign language but totally missing 'reading' her daughter's visual responses and expressions (a vital component of sign language), but demands a response orally without CIs all the while insisting she put the CIs on. It is purely selfish on the mother's part.

I'm not 100% certain, but I believe that based on many other videos of the situation I've seen, the woman you see in these videos is the grandmother, the child's deaf father's mom, demonstrating how the child reacts. She's spoken out vehemently against the CI. Her close relationship to the dad and position on the CI makes it even more surprising to me that she doesn't use ASL consistently or fluently with the child, and when she does, it's as you say -- not real two-way communication. That's one of the reasons why I think the issue is huge: totally broken communication.

 

[Jiro]

I should have written that book -- our life is exactly the same just kidding ... not by a long shot

*Warning to those who hate when I reference our personal experience: the following is once again going to be about my family, in response to Jiro's concern about Li needing more opportunities to be with other ASL-using deaf*

Although my husband and I do need to find ways to 'get more ASL' without losing time w/the child -- I think our level of fluency is pretty poor -- Li herself has a great balance of ASL and spoken language immersion opps. This little one has had a pretty big schedule with a long daily commute since I met her at 1YO, but we think its worth it: a nearly 4 hour van trip a day with 4 other deaf kids to attend a bi-bi school (she leaves at 6:15am, arrives home at 4pm). Friday class is all-ASL, half of her days are voices-off ASL only. Before she turned 3, she was at an asl-based daycare at the same place (far away instead of with me at the child care center available at my workplace) and we also attended twice weekly playgroups: all ASL, with terps for new members, a resident psychologist, SLPs, and deaf teaching staff & director. Beautiful experience, but those 9am-12 sessions are so hard for working parents to attend, and the daycare ended with the school day, we couldn't have done it with traditional 9-5 jobs w/out flexibility -- and still, that took a lot of vacation days between the 2 of us for 2 years! Family ASL lessons on Saturdays, and my husband & I have attended ASL night classes at that same distant school, on alternating nights so one could stay home with the little one.

Most of the parents/families of her deaf school peers are hearing with a few exceptions, although we do mix it up with them on occasion. My daughter's best friend is also deaf, they take weekly soccer, swimming, and gymnastics together outside school/weekends, after which we lunch and/or have dinner. We can't find a deaf peer to join her for piano and kung fu, though. I think you are spot on with the socializing recommendation as a great way to learn and develop, although we haven't done the Boston deaf socials or coffee chats. When I do, I think I'll lurk anonymously until I feel like I can keep up so not to annoy the dickens out of everyone. We live close to Providence and my work commute to Boston is 3 hours a day -- tough to do that twice in a day to attend a social or stay in town and give up seeing the little one until morning, that evening time is so precious. Our families, long-time friends and neighbors use only the most basic signs, so in those interactions, spoken language is primary, although Li has been teaching ASL to her grandmother via skype.

One great approach a friend of ours took was to rent a suite in their house to a deaf couple -- they made life long friends (close for 18 years now) and were able to develop fluency across the whole family in this way. But our house is really too "cozy" (small) and no one would want to live with us out in the boonies

wow... all these daily commutes... that's just so rough on child especially for 4 years old. I can't image the expenses involved for whole thing mentioned in your post especially for commuting.

I see that Li is spending quite a lot of time in school & structure environment and less in real world socialization like normal kids. You and Li do not have to suffer like this if you move closer for her sake (just a thought). My parents moved about 4x for us wherever our school was. My brother and I are deaf.