A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

[drphil]

Who brought the children into this world? Parents-thus it is their primary responsibility in bringing them up to so that their children' can make their own decisions when "matured". A long time process-to say the least. I had 2 sons- now in the thirties.

Implanted Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07

 

[GrendelQ]

I thought a lot about the title of this thread...

I don't think it is a violiation of human rights to implant children but I think it is a violiation of human rights to continue to force the child to wear the implant after they have demonstrated that they don't want to wear it. Deafness is not life threatening.

Yes, and there is so much wrong in the interactions I've seen videotaped between that child and her famly. Everyone looks incredibly miserable, the child more than anyone. I don't know how you can look at a child reacting that way and continue what you're doing.

 

[faire_jour]

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yes, the child would be able to learn to speak, but would they be able to learn to understand the spoken language of others? Would they be able to function receptively? The CI does not effect the ability to produce language (directly, but the better you hear yourself, the more readily you are able to correct yourself) but what it DOES do is allow for the child to be able to understand when others speak to them. That is something that can not be taught later. That is were the value of childhood implantation lies.

What a load of hogwash! I can speak and have mastered both spoken and written language all without the aid of either HAs or CIs. Shel90 has too, as have many others here. If that is not an audist statement if ever I saw one!

did you actually read what i wrote? I specifically said that you can learn to speak without a CI. I didn't say anything at all about written english, of course a person doesn't need to hear to read. It is completely seperate. What i ACTUALLY said was that a CI provides access to receptive spoken language...listening. Therefore the person is not speaking and guessing at what the other person says.

 

[posts from hell]

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did you actually read what i wrote? I specifically said that you can learn to speak without a CI. I didn't say anything at all about written english, of course a person doesn't need to hear to read. It is completely seperate. What i ACTUALLY said was that a CI provides access to receptive spoken language...listening. Therefore the person is not speaking and guessing at what the other person says.

Why is listening so important? I can bet you I can hear more than the hearing people do by using visual cues.

 

[faire_jour]

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did you actually read what i wrote? I specifically said that you can learn to speak without a CI. I didn't say anything at all about written english, of course a person doesn't need to hear to read. It is completely seperate. What i ACTUALLY said was that a CI provides access to receptive spoken language...listening. Therefore the person is not speaking and guessing at what the other person says.

Why is listening so important? I can bet you I can hear more than the hearing people do by using visual cues.

listening is the receptive portion of spoken language. It is equally as important as the ability to speak itself. The language requires both receptive and expressive components.
if you don't value about spoken language then there is no reason to care about listening. If you do value it, listening (and receptive language) is as important as speech (and expressive language).

 

[Beowulf]

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listening is the receptive portion of spoken language. It is equally as important as the ability to speak itself. The language requires both receptive and expressive components.
if you don't value about spoken language then there is no reason to care about listening. If you do value it, listening (and receptive language) is as important as speech (and expressive language).

Yet the lack of effort one puts into listening shows the lack of respect for it.

 

[faire_jour]

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as i said before, i recently read over a study about long term outcomes for people implanted in childhood.

it was called "long-term functional outcomes and academic-occupational status in implanted children after 10 to 14 years of cochlear implant use" 2005 beadle, mckinley, nikolopoulos, brough, o'donoghue, archbold

"conclusion: all but one of the 30 implanted children continue to use their devices 10 to 14 years after implantation, showing significant progress in speech perception and production. Device failure was frequent, but successful reimplantation occured in all cases. One third to one-half of the implanted children in this study continued to demonstrate improvements at the 5 to 10 years of implant use. All children are studying or working and are actively involved in their local communities. The results suggest that cochlear implantation provides long-term communication benefit to profoundly deaf children that does not plateau for some subjects even after reimplantation."

 

[Beowulf]

Awesome. Poke them with a stick and see what happens.

 

[posts from hell]

several failures... hmm.. i only see $$$$$$

 

[AlleyCat]

If the ability to listen is provided for through a CI, why do many children with CIs still use CART, interpreters, and attend certain schools?

 

[faire_jour]

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If the ability to listen is provided for through a CI, why do many children with CIs still use CART, interpreters, and attend certain schools?

who says "many" do?

 

[shel90]

Awesome. Poke them with a stick and see what happens.

 

[shel90]

several failures... hmm.. i only see $$$$$$

Show me the money, baby!

 

[AlleyCat]

Just about everyone. Is your daughter not in a special school? Is Grendel's not?

 

[shel90]

Just about everyone. Is your daughter not in a special school? Is Grendel's not?

Oh my gosh..I survived being in a non-special school without having implants!


Just kidding! I barely got out alive. Ugh..

 

[posts from hell]

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who says "many" do?

Completely ignorant statement.

 

[flip]

Hi Flip, I respect your position, although I don't hold the same one. In my mind, that decision whether or not to get a CI is very personal and what is factored in to making it depends greatly on the individual. I'm not so much pro-CI as pro-opportunity to make the decision freely -- either way.



Can you point to an example of where you see Rick indicating that he thinks his daughter is inferior to her hearing peers?

Yes, can point to examples. I'm a pretty busy at the moment, but can dig up some stuff later.

I think your bolded section is the key point: I don't ascribe my imagined motivations to why a poster has taken a particular position.

I'm not an "oralist" but I have respect for those who pursue that approach --I don't see what Rick has described with regard to his daughter as a tragedy. A few posters here have related recent or current experiences with their children that don't involve using CIs, as well -- I definitely don't see Rockdrummer's, Wee Beastie's, or Jillio's accounts of their children as tragedies, either -- even though they, like Rick, took a different approach. All of these seem to be valid, successful approaches. Just different from my family's.



Can't say why, you might want to ask the majority, in which I am not.

You aren't even interested to listen or understand what other people think and why? I see... Guess that explains some of the issues here.

As have you, so have others self-identified as being against CIs, whether for themselves, for children, and some feel they have the ability to determine what's right for all deaf. I respect the decisions people make for themselves and their families.

Your definition is of an anti-CI'er is among others:
anyone that don't want a CI for themselves.

Hope anti-CI then not is a negative word according to you?

 

[faire_jour]

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Just about everyone. Is your daughter not in a special school? Is Grendel's not?

i just read that 87% of deaf kids are mainstreamed. We are clearly in the minority. Li-li is being raised bilingually (hense the deaf school placement, it has nothing to do with the success of her implants or her spoken language skills) and my child was very late implanted and had ZERO access to spoken english before age 5.

 

[faire_jour]

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who says "many" do?

Completely ignorant statement.

just asking for the information. I don't know how many kids get what services so i asked.

 

[flip]

Rick has indicated, and stated outright, in many posts over the time that he has been a member here, that his daughter is superior to those who use ASL. He has also stated outright that parents who choose not to implant are abusive, and are taking the easy way out. These are only a few examples of the ways in which his audism has been made evident. Perhaps you have not seen it to the degree that the rest of us have because you have not seen the things he has said over time.

Believing that his daughter is inferior to her hearing peers would not make him an audist. Believing that his daughter is superior to those who are not implanted and choose to use ASL is what makes him an audist.

You really need to understand that because an individual does not think a CI is appropriate in specific instances does not mean that they are "anti-CI." On this forum, flip is the only one I know that is "anti-CI" and that is by admission. Seriously, you need to spend some time having open minded discussions with members here in order to truly understand their perspectives. You cannot automatically shut them down out of defensiveness. You will never grasp what they are saying, and you will always misinterpret their positions if you continue to do so.

GrendelQ argues that Rick not is an audist by the posts she have read so far. The inconsistency here is that she says she don't know what Rick think or is up to. Do she think Rick is an audist or not? But hey, this is an internet forum!

Btw, it's a no brainer to predict what GrendelQ's daughter and her peers will say about people like Rick48 when she gets older. Hope she can explain this better than us.