A Violation of Human Rights Re: Forcing A Deaf Child to Wear CI

[deafdyke]

have solely and completely embraced the Deaf world right along with my daughter and am now entering a new phase with our 2yo daughter who has just been diagnosed with a Severe Reverse slope hearing loss, she too will have the benefit of 'hearing" with hearing aids, but she too will begin her education w/in the Deaf Society and Deaf culture full force. NOT all parents are out to CHANGE their children into people that they will never be, we just want them to have the advantage of the sound around them. If eaither of my children decide to stop using their devises at any time that choice is theirs and I will still be an ASL fingerflying Mom of 2 gorgeous daughters whom have showed the best of an entirely new world

Hi ASLMommax2! WELCOME!!!!!! Where in MA are you? That ROCKS that your two year old is also gonna have exposure to BOTH ASL and speech! A lot of hoh kids don't get that benifit. I do have to say I've noticed a few parents of hoh kids opting for Dhh schools or programs! Like 15 or twenty or thirty years ago you never would have seen hoh kids in programs for dhh kids. (except if they had a severe speech delay and were in an oral program for deaf kids, or if they were in one of those regional high school programs)

 

[flip]

He also has labeled me a "Deaf wannabe". I don't even know what that is.

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but I don't want to be deaf. I wasn't born deaf, and Lord willing, I will not become deaf. However, not wanting to lose a sense I have always had doesn't negate the fact that I have empathy for what the deaf have gone through and still go through.

This is what the oralists don't have. Empathy. In my view, that is far worse than being called a "wannabe".

Rick: If I wanted to become deaf, it's very, very simple. All I would have to do is wear my head phones while listening to music at full blast. Would that do it instantly? No, but, it would be effective. Lets not forget that I've also almost have been in these people's shoes already by virtue of otoxic drugs given to me for infections and pain relief. I also contracted meningitis as an infant.

My hearing is something I DO NOT take for granted, but being hearing also doesn't mean that I am callous and unfeeling to the needs of others. It's about respect. That, Sir, is something you DO NOT have for these people here and you never will.

Empathy is a bit loaded word to use here, especially when you are generalizing. The danger is that one can appear a bit like a Mother Theresa that no one asked for. Just giving a head up!

 

[flip]

No, I don't. (But I will). It's not my place or preference to label fellow community members. Except for PFH, whose viewpoints I mostly respect, but whose approach verges on (or fully dives into) abusive: I'm comfortable labeling him a pain in the a@# whenever possible. :P In the most loving sense of the phrase. Someday I hope we can get past the CI debates and present a unified approach -- he may feel very differently, but much as I like a spirited debate, I'd like to work with him, and not always seem to be at odds with his perspective.

I'll say this: my impression based on the posts in this thread and off-hand memory of his posts is no. Rick has a deaf child. If I had to guess, based on the loving and proud way he writes about his daughters, and a sometimes fierce protectiveness, I can't imagine that he thinks someone else's child is superior to his own daughter just because that other child is hearing and his daughter is deaf. I haven't seen a sense that his daughter is inferior to differently hearing peers based on her deafness conveyed in his posts, have you?

Yes, I have seen that in his posts. It's interesting that you can't detect or imagine it. The situation you describe is what makes oralism the tragedy it is. No one doubts those parents love their kids.

I see a strong position against individuals who are anti-CI. I see a high value placed on spoken language and a child's sense of self-worth. I see that he is constantly being challenged to defend his decision and has become accustomed to having to do so. I don't know Rick's 'oevre' of alldeaf posts, I don't have time to research what he's posted in the past, I don't know him personally and so I actually don't know whether or not he feels that a hearing person is superior to a deaf person or that its right to discriminate against a deaf person based on hearing status. But I don't see an indication of that. Just as you would, I'd call him on it if that turns out to be the case.

The majority of the posters seems to label Rick48 as an audist. I'm curious how you interpret this? What's up with the majority?

You use the sentence "individuals who are anti-CI". Could you perhaps name some of those, as I am confused who they are, and what makes them anti-CI? How come it's ok to label people as anti-CI when you say "It's not my place or preference to label fellow community members".?

I'm the only one here that is anti-CI, as far as I know. I think CI should be banned by law, I hate it. But the rest of of my likes, where are they?

Just trying to clear up a confusing debate.

 

[SJCSue]

Which is more important: getting your money's worth out of the CI or educating the child?

It is more important to give a good education regardless if the child is hearing, hard of hearing, or deaf, in my opinion.

 

[jillio]

OK heres my take. My profoundly Deaf daughter, now 14, was implanted at 4yo. It took me 2 years to make the decision to do so for exactly this reason. I had no intention of "changing" my daughter into a "hearing" person, I only wanted to give the oppurtunity to "hear" the sounds she was missing out on. My daughter is STILL and ALWAYS will be a DEAF child, being educated w/in a Deaf school, speaking the language of ASL, and living the Deaf culture, only with the added benefit of "hearing" the world around her. I have solely and completely embraced the Deaf world right along with my daughter and am now entering a new phase with our 2yo daughter who has just been diagnosed with a Severe Reverse slope hearing loss, she too will have the benefit of 'hearing" with hearing aids, but she too will begin her education w/in the Deaf Society and Deaf culture full force. NOT all parents are out to CHANGE their children into people that they will never be, we just want them to have the advantage of the sound around them. If eaither of my children decide to stop using their devises at any time that choice is theirs and I will still be an ASL fingerflying Mom of 2 gorgeous daughters whom have showed the best of an entirely new world

You are to be commended for your choices. You are certainly not one of the parents we speak of. However, parents that choose to implant and still maintain ASL skills and Deaf educational placement are few and far between. No one even implies that all parents use the CI as an excuse to keep a child in an oral environment...unfortunately, it is a sad fact that many, many do. You are more rare than the parent who uses the CI as an excuse to embrace oralism.

Welcome to the forum, BTW.

 

[jillio]

It is more important to give a good education regardless if the child is hearing, hard of hearing, or deaf, in my opinion.

Absolutely.

BTW, haven't seen you around for awhile. Glad to see you are back!

 

[jillio]

Yes, I have seen that in his posts. It's interesting that you can't detect or imagine it. The situation you describe is what makes oralism the tragedy it is. No one doubts those parents love their kids.

The majority of the posters seems to label Rick48 as an audist. I'm curious how you interpret this? What's up with the majority?

You use the sentence "individuals who are anti-CI". Could you perhaps name some of those, as I am confused who they are, and what makes them anti-CI? How come it's ok to label people as anti-CI when you say "It's not my place or preference to label fellow community members".?

I'm the only one here that is anti-CI, as far as I know. I think CI should be banned by law, I hate it. But the rest of of my likes, where are they?

Just trying to clear up a confusing debate.

Very well said! And +1.

 

[GrendelQ]

Hi Flip, I respect your position, although I don't hold the same one. In my mind, that decision whether or not to get a CI is very personal and what is factored in to making it depends greatly on the individual. I'm not so much pro-CI as pro-opportunity to make the decision freely -- either way.

Yes, I have seen that in his posts. It's interesting that you can't detect or imagine it. The situation you describe is what makes oralism the tragedy it is. No one doubts those parents love their kids.

Can you point to an example of where you see Rick indicating that he thinks his daughter is inferior to her hearing peers?

I think your bolded section is the key point: I don't ascribe my imagined motivations to why a poster has taken a particular position.

I'm not an "oralist" but I have respect for those who pursue that approach --I don't see what Rick has described with regard to his daughter as a tragedy. A few posters here have related recent or current experiences with their children that don't involve using CIs, as well -- I definitely don't see Rockdrummer's, Wee Beastie's, or Jillio's accounts of their children as tragedies, either -- even though they, like Rick, took a different approach. All of these seem to be valid, successful approaches. Just different from my family's.

The majority of the posters seems to label Rick48 as an audist. I'm curious how you interpret this? What's up with the majority?

Can't say why, you might want to ask the majority, in which I am not.

You use the sentence "individuals who are anti-CI". Could you perhaps name some of those, as I am confused who they are, and what makes them anti-CI? How come it's ok to label people as anti-CI when you say "It's not my place or preference to label fellow community members".?

I'm the only one here that is anti-CI, as far as I know. I think CI should be banned by law, I hate it. But the rest of of my likes, where are they?

Just trying to clear up a confusing debate.

As have you, so have others self-identified as being against CIs, whether for themselves, for children, and some feel they have the ability to determine what's right for all deaf. I respect the decisions people make for themselves and their families.

 

[GrendelQ]

OK heres my take. My profoundly Deaf daughter, now 14, was implanted at 4yo. It took me 2 years to make the decision to do so for exactly this reason. I had no intention of "changing" my daughter into a "hearing" person, I only wanted to give the oppurtunity to "hear" the sounds she was missing out on. My daughter is STILL and ALWAYS will be a DEAF child, being educated w/in a Deaf school, speaking the language of ASL, and living the Deaf culture, only with the added benefit of "hearing" the world around her. I have solely and completely embraced the Deaf world right along with my daughter and am now entering a new phase with our 2yo daughter who has just been diagnosed with a Severe Reverse slope hearing loss, she too will have the benefit of 'hearing" with hearing aids, but she too will begin her education w/in the Deaf Society and Deaf culture full force. NOT all parents are out to CHANGE their children into people that they will never be, we just want them to have the advantage of the sound around them. If eaither of my children decide to stop using their devises at any time that choice is theirs and I will still be an ASL fingerflying Mom of 2 gorgeous daughters whom have showed the best of an entirely new world

Hello and welcome! So wonderful to find such a similar perspective . Although distant in age, perhaps our daughters are schoolmates.

 

[jillio]

Rick has indicated, and stated outright, in many posts over the time that he has been a member here, that his daughter is superior to those who use ASL. He has also stated outright that parents who choose not to implant are abusive, and are taking the easy way out. These are only a few examples of the ways in which his audism has been made evident. Perhaps you have not seen it to the degree that the rest of us have because you have not seen the things he has said over time.

Believing that his daughter is inferior to her hearing peers would not make him an audist. Believing that his daughter is superior to those who are not implanted and choose to use ASL is what makes him an audist.

You really need to understand that because an individual does not think a CI is appropriate in specific instances does not mean that they are "anti-CI." On this forum, flip is the only one I know that is "anti-CI" and that is by admission. Seriously, you need to spend some time having open minded discussions with members here in order to truly understand their perspectives. You cannot automatically shut them down out of defensiveness. You will never grasp what they are saying, and you will always misinterpret their positions if you continue to do so.

 

[GrendelQ]

Believing that his daughter is inferior to her hearing peers would not make him an audist. Believing that his daughter is superior to those who are not implanted and choose to use ASL is what makes him an audist.

Thinking a deaf child is inferior to his or her her hearing peers based on hearing ability is 'textbook' audism based on the many definitions here and elsewhere. Rick's daughter is deaf.

Saying again and again that he is an audist doesn't make it so. It just makes others who don't want to think for themselves believe it's so, without any facts to back it up, which is a real shame.

 

[Beowulf]

Thinking a deaf child is inferior to his or her her hearing peers based on hearing ability is 'textbook' audism based on the many definitions here and elsewhere.

Rick's daughter is deaf. Saying again and again that he is an audist doesn't make it so. It just makes others who don't want to think for themselves believe it's so, without any facts to back it up, which is a real shame.

Nawww, he IS an audist. Get over it. He can change, though, IF he listens to our viewpoints.

 

[GrendelQ]

Nawww, he IS an audist. Get over it. He can change, though, IF he listens to our viewpoints.

It may be fun for you to run around with the gang waving a pitchfork, but witch hunts never result in a good end.

 

[shel90]

Thinking a deaf child is inferior to his or her her hearing peers based on hearing ability is 'textbook' audism based on the many definitions here and elsewhere. Rick's daughter is deaf.

Saying again and again that he is an audist doesn't make it so. It just makes others who don't want to think for themselves believe it's so, without any facts to back it up, which is a real shame.

One who thinks their deaf child who has speech skills is superior over those who dont is definitely audist. There is no changing that fact.

 

[GrendelQ]

One who thinks their deaf child who has speech skills is superior over those who dont is definitely audist. There is no changing that fact.

Yes, I agree with that.

Still, no connection made. Why don't you all just weigh Rick, see how he compares to a duck and get this all over with.

 

[Beowulf]

One who thinks their deaf child who has speech skills is superior over those who dont is definitely audist. There is no changing that fact.

Yeah, and I think we made a few hearing people wake up to that fact. That makes this forum worthwhile.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Empathy is a bit loaded word to use here, especially when you are generalizing. The danger is that one can appear a bit like a Mother Theresa that no one asked for. Just giving a head up!

I get what you mean. Empathy = pity?

Not from me, but, I read you!

 

[shel90]

Yes, I agree with that.

Still, no connection made. Why don't you all just weigh Rick, see how he compares to a duck and get this all over with.

From a few years ago when he made a lot of comments on Deaf schools and ASL regarding his daughter. I don't know the exact words but the message was that those who don't have speech skills don't have as much opportunities as those who do or something like that. It got a lot of people angry and started attacking him...a few bans were followed afterwards. However, I brought up my brother to show examples of how deaf people can be successful without having speech skills. I can't remember everything but I remember being so disgusted.

 

[shel90]

I thought a lot about the title of this thread...

I don't think it is a violiation of human rights to implant children but I think it is a violiation of human rights to continue to force the child to wear the implant after they have demonstrated that they don't want to wear it. Deafness is not life threatening.

 

[yizuman]

Who determines the child's happiness? The child or the parent(s)?

Yiz