A venting...

[Cheri]

Where did I ever say I was an expert? I was only stating my opinion, and I don't know why you're getting all defensive.

 

[shel90]

Where did I ever say I was an expert? I was only stating my opinion, and I don't know why you're getting all defensive.

Because you make so many opinions about how Deaf ed should be run and what the kids need and u have told me that you know all this from reading all kinds of research so I am saying that you are an expert based on what you told me. You got all upset when I stated that to really understand the big picture, one must get actual hands-on experience in the field which is it? Either one is an expert or one is not. Just like I am not an expert in teaching hearing children even reading research on different methodologies on how to teach them so I do not know the big picture of how it really works in a classroom full of 30 plus hearing kids with different learning styles until I get actual hands-on experience with it.

 

[shel90]

Why would parents with CI children or parents who want oral education want to take their children to a deaf school where oral education isn't the primary focus?

It also makes me wonder of their commitment at home to the oral approach with their children.

The best option for their children is to open up a resource room program in a public school for those children who wants the oral education.

I had to go to another school district for a hearing impaired resource program that also mainstreamed in the classes we were doing well.

Unless the deaf school is for oral education or have a strong emphasis to guide children in that direction, then they shouldn't be bothering in deaf schools where ASL is strongly used or wanted.

They want their kids to have both ASL and spoken English but prefer to have hearing teachers. That's where this vent is coming from. It hurts me when I sit in meetings and to have to hear that plus a lot of other situations that are starting to pop up.

 

[Liza]

With the attitudes out there and even in some cases, people are demanding hearing teachers teach their children with CIs not the deaf teachers even if the languages being used are ASL and spoken English.

My question is...should deaf people now who are thinking about becoming teachers using ASL should even bother study for the field of Deaf education? Go thru 6 years of college only to find out that they cant teach deaf kids because of the demand for spoken language in the classroom?

What do u think? Shoud we just let hearing people take over Deaf ed again since it looks like it is leading towards that path with more and more children being implanted?

Should deaf people not run the risk of wasting their time and money going to college for a field that may discriminate against them in the future?

I am starting to feel a little bit of the discrimination ...not subtle but it is starting to happen.

Or just go for it and take the risks and prove these hearing people wrong?

The field of Deaf ed wasnt what I expected when I first applied ...all I wanted to teach all deaf children but only to end up battling the fight between ASL and Spoken English. That is not my passion..my passion is the children, not the political BS with the medical views.

It really brings me down sometimes cuz I feel like I am not good enough for deaf children anymore sometimes.

I think deaf teachers are much needed, shel. You probably ran afoul into a group that wanted certain things from their children's teachers. Or do you think this is a growing trend overrall? I wonder why don't the parents or school set up some kind of speech support thing on the side so they continue to get that input during a critical period, and leave the education itself alone? It might be too much for the kids trying to absorb learning materials while they are learning about spoken english. Germans don't certainly try to teach their kids the normal subjects with french language, hoping they get better with french.

 

[Liza]

They want their kids to have both ASL and spoken English but prefer to have hearing teachers. That's where this vent is coming from. It hurts me when I sit in meetings and to have to hear that plus a lot of other situations that are starting to pop up.

Have you shared your input at these meetings? I think it is important for people to hear everything to make an informed decision. I'm glad you shared your vent with us.

 

[shel90]

Have you shared your input at these meetings? I think it is important for people to hear everything to make an informed decision. I'm glad you shared your vent with us.

Shared, sweated, pounded and discussed not by me only but by others. Oh well.

No problem.

 

[shel90]

I think deaf teachers are much needed, shel. You probably ran afoul into a group that wanted certain things from their children's teachers. Or do you think this is a growing trend overrall? I wonder why don't the parents or school set up some kind of speech support thing on the side so they continue to get that input during a critical period, and leave the education itself alone? It might be too much for the kids trying to absorb learning materials while they are learning about spoken english. Germans don't certainly try to teach their kids the normal subjects with french language, hoping they get better with french.

It appears to be a new growing trend.

I agree with u about everything and yes, we provide so many speech and spoken language support services.

 

[rockdrummer]

With the attitudes out there and even in some cases, people are demanding hearing teachers teach their children with CIs not the deaf teachers even if the languages being used are ASL and spoken English.

My question is...should deaf people now who are thinking about becoming teachers using ASL should even bother study for the field of Deaf education? Go thru 6 years of college only to find out that they cant teach deaf kids because of the demand for spoken language in the classroom?

What do u think? Shoud we just let hearing people take over Deaf ed again since it looks like it is leading towards that path with more and more children being implanted?

Should deaf people not run the risk of wasting their time and money going to college for a field that may discriminate against them in the future?

I am starting to feel a little bit of the discrimination ...not subtle but it is starting to happen.

Or just go for it and take the risks and prove these hearing people wrong?

The field of Deaf ed wasnt what I expected when I first applied ...all I wanted to teach all deaf children but only to end up battling the fight between ASL and Spoken English. That is not my passion..my passion is the children, not the political BS with the medical views.

It really brings me down sometimes cuz I feel like I am not good enough for deaf children anymore sometimes.

Woah Shel, Im sure you have helped many that would not be where they are today without you. Think about those kids that you have been able to reach and where they might be now without you. I see your passion for teaching and that in my opinion is a what separates a good teacher from a great one. I can only imagine that teaching mainstream is a difficult job but teaching outside it has got to be even more difficult. Especially with so many teaching approaches competing with each other. With all due respect, maybe you should take a break from here for a while. Either way... hang in there!!

 

[Liza]

Shared, sweated, pounded and discussed not by me only but by others. Oh well.

No problem.

Ack! Those kids are lucky to have you, I'll have you know that. I really loved having ASL in the classroom ~ I have taken it for granted, and I really can't imagine not having that.

 

[shel90]

Woah Shel, Im sure you have helped many that would not be where they are today without you. Think about those kids that you have been able to reach and where they might be now without you. I see your passion for teaching and that in my opinion is a what separates a good teacher from a great one. I can only imagine that teaching mainstream is a difficult job but teaching outside it has got to be even more difficult. Especially with so many teaching approaches competing with each other. With all due respect, maybe you should take a break from here for a while. Either way... hang in there!!

Thanks! I needed that. I am sooo happy when I am at work in the classroom and dont think about that but I am wondering about the future if deaf people who aspire to become teachers would face discrimination in the field of Deaf ed?

We have another meeting tmw after the kids go home about Spoken English. Be prepared for more venting tmw night. If not, means something was worked out.

 

[shel90]

Ack! Those kids are lucky to have you, I'll have you know that. I really loved having ASL in the classroom ~ I have taken it for granted, and I really can't imagine not having that.

U are VERY VERY lucky...I had only spoken English 24/7 and my classrooms were always at least 25 or more hearing kids speaking at a rapid pace during classroom discussions, shared reading, debates, and social gatherings.

 

[Liza]

U are VERY VERY lucky...I had only spoken English 24/7 and my classrooms were always at least 25 or more hearing kids speaking at a rapid pace during classroom discussions, shared reading, debates, and social gatherings.

Torture subjecting a deaf kid to that
How can people conveniently ignore THAT?

It makes me upset, too.. I had a small but painful taste of that when I had to go to middle school with only hearing kids for a short time. I can't even imagine HOW upset you must be after being constantly subjected to that.. even as a teacher!

 

[shel90]

Torture subjecting a deaf kid to that
How can people conveniently ignore THAT?

It makes me upset, too.. I had a small but painful taste of that when I had to go to middle school with only hearing kids for a short time. I can't even imagine HOW upset you must be after being constantly subjected to that.. even as a teacher!

I grew up mainstreamed full time in an oral-only environment alllll the way until I learned ASL at the age of 25. I was constantly frustrated, isolated, left out, and many more but didnt know why. I thought it had to do with me as a person which was why my self-esteem was almost completely damaged until I learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community. Finally, I was able to identify whta the problem was...being denied full access to language, communication, education, and information on a 24/7 basis day in and day out.

 

[Liza]

I grew up mainstreamed full time in an oral-only environment alllll the way until I learned ASL at the age of 25. I was constantly frustrated, isolated, left out, and many more but didnt know why. I thought it had to do with me as a person which was why my self-esteem was almost completely damaged until I learned ASL and got involved with the Deaf community. Finally, I was able to identify whta the problem was...being denied full access to language, communication, education, and information on a 24/7 basis day in and day out.

I am glad you figured out that there was nothing wrong with you at all. I can't believe you went through all that crap for so long. Huff... you paid a steep price for having to live the way someone else thought you should have. Where do we draw the line as parents regarding our children's welfare and needs?

Your experiences as well as your professional creds make you an extremely valuable advocate, and I hope you see that. Good to have you on our side!

 

[shel90]

I am glad you figured out that there was nothing wrong with you at all. I can't believe you went through all that crap for so long. Huff... you paid a steep price for having to live the way someone else thought you should have. Where do we draw the line as parents regarding our children's welfare and needs?

Your experiences as well as your professional creds make you an extremely valuable advocate, and I hope you see that. Good to have you on our side!

and my views from my experiences both personally and professionally has gained me quite a few enemies here.

Thanks for the support.

 

[Deaf Mortgage]

shel90 - In nutshell... Don't give up. There are many idealist that are created by hearing people. They think they are superior over all disability. They do not get feedback from us. They get feedback from people they consider is more important.

One way to win, go back to school for PHD and get a PHD degree in Deaf Education Bibi approach or Deaf Education in ASL as Primary Language with English as 2nd language approach. Give it a try.

Dont get discouraged by those people, you have our full supports here on ALLDEAF. You should contact Gina Oliva for she writes book "Alone in Mainstream"... she can help you with resources that she has come across all over the USA. She is Recreation/Physical Education Instructor at Gallaudet. Still active professor. One of my role model at Gallaudet.

 

[shel90]

shel90 - In nutshell... Don't give up. There are many idealist that are created by hearing people. They think they are superior over all disability. They do not get feedback from us. They get feedback from people they consider is more important.

One way to win, go back to school for PHD and get a PHD degree in Deaf Education Bibi approach or Deaf Education in ASL as Primary Language with English as 2nd language approach. Give it a try.

Dont get discouraged by those people, you have our full supports here on ALLDEAF. You should contact Gina Oliva for she writes book "Alone in Mainstream"... she can help you with resources that she has come across all over the USA. She is Recreation/Physical Education Instructor at Gallaudet. Still active professor. One of my role model at Gallaudet.

She interviewed my brother and I for that book.

Maybe I should go for my PhD.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. :hugs: My heart is for the children first and foremost.

 

[Deaf Mortgage]

She interviewed my brother and I for that book.

Maybe I should go for my PhD.

Thanks for the words of encouragement. :hugs: My heart is for the children first and foremost.

Cherish it!

 

[faire_jour]

I It might be too much for the kids trying to absorb learning materials while they are learning about spoken english. Germans don't certainly try to teach their kids the normal subjects with french language, hoping they get better with french.

I had to use ASL to learn all new information in my interpreting classes. It is possible to learn content in a language that you are still learning (it is not preferable in most circumstances, possible though)

 

[jillio]

I have explained this to u several times...

There is a time and place for spoken English and that's one on one basis and I have no problem with that but for a whole class instruction spoken English is not fully accessible to these kids and the parensts are demanding a hearing teacher all day for BOTH asl and spoken English. Get it?

Concepts shud be taught using the language that is fully accessible to ALLLL children regardless of their hearing loss and those who benefit from spoken language do it in small group or one on one situations with the lessons.

That's how our program is set up and parents like that but with the exception of preferring hearing teachers over deaf teachers. That is where my venting comes from.

I don't mind using spoken English in those small groups but not all day..the key word is "all day". And since I don't mind, why am I not good enough to do the job? Is it cuz I am deaf? Since u r the expert, why don't u answer the question?

That is what I am feeling upset about.
This is my venting not a debate on how my classroom should be run. If u want to start a thread dictating on how classrooms should be run, pls start a separate thread. Like I said before, if u feel kids need this ior that and we r doing it wrong, then become a teacher or teacher's aide.

People just don't seem to get the fact that if you use spoken English all day every day in the classroom, it is no longer a Bi-Bi program.:roll: