545 vs 300,000,000 people.

[Reba]

... I was born before Apple/MS existed.

Me, too.

In the mid-60's, my dad showed me around his work place at NARF in San Diego. He had installed a computer system there. The "system" was actually the building itself. It was so bulky that all the wiring was under removable panels in the floor. The had monster mainframes in rows. It was huge but probably the capacity in a digital handheld calculator is more than that now.

In the late 70's I worked in the Navy with punch cards and paper tapes. As a civilian, I was taking classes in programming for BASIC, COBOL, and FORTRAN in the early 80's. At work with the Naval Reserve we used MS-DOS in admin, and early Apples in public affairs (no color monitors). My first home computer was a used Apple IIe (obviously no internet at that time).

 

[Jiro]

Me, too.

In the mid-60's, my dad showed me around his work place at NARF in San Diego. He had installed a computer system there. The "system" was actually the building itself. It was so bulky that all the wiring was under removable panels in the floor. The had monster mainframes in rows. It was huge but probably the capacity in a digital handheld calculator is more than that now.

In the late 70's I worked in the Navy with punch cards and paper tapes. As a civilian, I was taking classes in programming for BASIC, COBOL, and FORTRAN in the early 80's. At work with the Naval Reserve we used MS-DOS in admin, and early Apples in public affairs (no color monitors). My first home computer was a used Apple IIe (obviously no internet at that time).

that's what my professor told me about. The university had entire facility just for computer. Because it was so hot and big, they had a massive A/C just for it. and it was a tedious job to do data input with punch cards which he gave to us as souvenir.

btw - BASIC & FORTRAN = I did learn it when I was a boy. C++ was a godsend.

 

[TXgolfer]

"It's a great deal -- for the manufacturers, that is. They don't have to worry much about competitive bids, which means they can charge absurd prices for their products and services. It turns out that in the spring of 2004, the Pentagon paid $1,000 each for hot plates, even though it had previously bought the same ones for $450."

That, my friends, is what capitalism is all about!

No, that is a lack of government accountability. I am assuming you have never received a government P.O.........I have. The government rarely asks for prices. They tell you what they are going to pay, and it is usually much more than you would charge.

During Katrina, FEMA often paid contractors 10x what they would charge.......I was there. FEMA was paying $800 to drive a pickup 60-70 miles and then filling the gas tank when you got there. No loading or unloading.....just drive. Many were making that drive 4 or 5 times a day.

That's not capitalism or opportunism.......It's the government printing money. You can't blame the people who accepted it.......The government would have just paid it to someone else.

 

[TXgolfer]

that's what my professor told me about. The university had entire facility just for computer. Because it was so hot and big, they had a massive A/C just for it. and it was a tedious job to do data input with punch cards which he gave to us as souvenir.

btw - BASIC & FORTRAN = I did learn it when I was a boy. C++ was a godsend.

That's was the same at granddad's place too. His computer in the early 80's took up a very large room. It had to be kept cold and he had some staff stay overnight to monitor it.....

 

[Jiro]

No, that is a lack of government accountability. I am assuming you have never received a government P.O.........I have. The government rarely asks for prices. They tell you what they are going to pay, and it is usually much more than you would charge.

During Katrina, FEMA often paid contractors 10x what they would charge.......I was there. FEMA was paying $800 to drive a pickup 60-70 miles and then filling the gas tank when you got there. No loading or unloading.....just drive. Many were making that drive 4 or 5 times a day.

That's not capitalism or opportunism.......It's the government printing money. You can't blame the people who accepted it.......The government would have just paid it to someone else.

curious - after arriving at the destination, how did the driver go back to drive another pick-up?

 

[netrox]

???? We taxpayers wouldn't buy it for $1,000. It's the government who foolishly spent $1,000 for something that costs $450. All for more reason why your concept failed.

Oh wait, what happened to to the core concept of capitalism where you set your own price and sell it for profit? Who cares if it's tax money or private money?

Just saying... $1000 a plate is definitely way too much... but exactly how much is just too much? Should it be $460? $500? $600? $900? What?

 

[Jiro]

Oh wait, what happened to to the core concept of capitalism where you set your own price and sell it for profit? Who cares if it's tax money or private money?

Just saying... $1000 a plate is definitely way too much... but exactly how much is just too much? Should it be $460? $500? $600? $900? What?

$450.

the government should have asked that question first before blindly paying for it with our tax money. if you understand a thing or two about the core concept of capitalism - then you should know that they will not sell it at the price that nobody would buy.

 

[TXgolfer]

curious - after arriving at the destination, how did the driver go back to drive another pick-up?

Sorry I was not clear. They were driving pick up loads of debris....

No trailers either. just 6 1/2 to 8 ft beds......Trailers and bigger trucks paid more

 

[Jiro]

Sorry I was not clear. They were driving pick up loads of debris....

No trailers either. just 6 1/2 to 8 ft beds......Trailers and bigger trucks paid more

wow... :roll:

I'm :roll: cuz I wish I knew about this and I would do it

 

[netrox]

btw - BASIC & FORTRAN = I did learn it when I was a boy. C++ was a godsend.

BASIC AND FORTRAN are AWESOME! Love them.

C++ is NOT a godsend... it caused more complexity than ever. Why do you think they're so busy trying to simplify C++.... and we got Java and C#? I wrote a complex search engine for MLS in C++ on Unix and it was ugly. I did Java programming for a short time in 1995 but abandoned because of poor performance (although it's much faster now).

 

[Jiro]

BASIC AND FORTRAN are AWESOME! Love them.

C++ is NOT a godsend... it caused more complexity than ever. Why do you think they're so busy trying to simplify C++.... and we got Java and C#? I wrote a complex search engine for MLS in C++ on Unix and it was ugly. I did Java programming for a short time in 1995 but abandoned because of poor performance (although it's much faster now).

silly - use the right tool for the job. Beside - why would you program C++ in UNIX????? wrong tool, wrong job!

 

[posts from hell]

Take it for what its worth.. I took quite a few networking classes and such. Yes, I do have some CISCO engineering under my belt.

I'm siding with Jiro here.

 

[TXgolfer]

wow... :roll:

I'm :roll: cuz I wish I knew about this and I would do it

It was insane there. They were paying $25,000 to 30,000 to rebuid a roof on houses that were barely worth that much.

I took my own guys there......

Normally a no skill,no tool, no transport laborer gets about $8/hr.....One day there I needed extra guys to do drywall at a Chevrolet Dealership....I went to Home Depot and offered a group like this $20/hr.......They laughed.....wanted $35/hr.

It was nuts down there. I am writing a book about it. No one really has any idea what really went on down there.

 

[darkdog]

"It's a great deal -- for the manufacturers, that is. They don't have to worry much about competitive bids, which means they can charge absurd prices for their products and services. It turns out that in the spring of 2004, the Pentagon paid $1,000 each for hot plates, even though it had previously bought the same ones for $450."

That, my friends, is what capitalism is all about!

It's amazing how often people on the other side of me think they're arguing against me when in fact, they're making my own points. This is not what capitalism is all about. Capitalism is defined by a lack of government institutions. This is the type of crap that happens when government gets involved. When the people making decisions don't have to pay the costs of those decisions, more bad decisions are made. Such a disconnect is far more common in government than in the private sector.

Of course, some government is necessary and as such, we have to tolerate at least a little of this stuff, but if you want less stuff like this, you should support more capitalism.

 

[Jiro]

It was insane there. They were paying $25,000 to 30,000 to rebuid a roof on houses that were barely worth that much.

I took my own guys there......

Normally a no skill,no tool, no transport laborer gets about $8/hr.....One day there I needed extra guys to do drywall at a Chevrolet Dealership....I went to Home Depot and offered a group like this $20/hr.......They laughed.....wanted $35/hr.

It was nuts down there. I am writing a book about it. No one really has any idea what really went on down there.

what? for $25,000 - $30,000, they can just get a decent trailer completed with everything!

 

[TXgolfer]

BASIC AND FORTRAN are AWESOME! Love them.

C++ is NOT a godsend... it caused more complexity than ever. Why do you think they're so busy trying to simplify C++.... and we got Java and C#? I wrote a complex search engine for MLS in C++ on Unix and it was ugly. I did Java programming for a short time in 1995 but abandoned because of poor performance (although it's much faster now).

"It's a poor musician that blames his instrument"

 

[Jiro]

It's amazing how often people on the other side of me think they're arguing against me when in fact, they're making my own points. This is not what capitalism is all about. Capitalism is defined by a lack of government institutions. This is the type of crap that happens when government gets involved. When the people making decisions don't have to pay the costs of those decisions, more bad decisions are made. Such a disconnect is far more common in government than in the private sector.

Of course, some government is necessary and as such, we have to tolerate at least a little of this stuff, but if you want less stuff like this, you should support more capitalism.

that's why more and more agencies are contracting companies to do the job that costs a fraction of what the agencies would spend if they do it themselves :roll:

 

[netrox]

$450. the government should have asked that question first before blindly paying for it with our tax money. if you understand a thing or two about the core concept of capitalism - then you should know that they will not sell it at the price that nobody would buy.

$450?!?! How the hell is the contractor going to make money?!?!

Suppose you get 100 plates, each $450 and it costs you $45000. Wow, that's a lot. Yes, so, suppose about 3 plates do break or have defects, it would cost $1,350 to replace three plates. So, if you suggest that they should sell it at $450, exactly how can they afford to actually even provide it when they may end up paying 1350 dollars more?

Of course, we're focused on plates alone, not the service or anything else. Just expensive plates.

 

[TXgolfer]

what? for $25,000 - $30,000, they can just get a decent trailer completed with everything!

Yup......now part of that was because you had to go 200 miles or more to get roofing materials......but still. And you needed generators but I had plenty of those from the Florida canes. Living situation was hard too. I took travel trailers and paid a farmer to let us connect to the electricity from his barn. Diet was pretty much peanut butter and anything canned. And bathing was pretty much soap and a 20 oz bottle of water. So yeah it would have to pay more than normal......But it paid way more than nomal.

My book will have an appendix with alot of the wacky POs

 

[netrox]

silly - use the right tool for the job. Beside - why would you program C++ in UNIX????? wrong tool, wrong job!

It was definitely the right tool for the right job in 1995 where performance counted the most and has to be compiled as an executable file.