100db gain HA's, is this ever going to be possible?

Hahaha! I have to wear big thing around my neck to hear. I have aids, but can't wear them now. I could wear them with thing (listener) and neck loop, but I agree, too many wires. I am not a candidate for CI. Everyone thinks I have a BIG ipod or radio. The students think that "Granny is jammin". haha!
 
Hmm - One thing that you have to realize that HA only amplifies sound. How can it amplifies sound? By utilizing the residual hearing you have. If you have NO nerve cells, it won't work, no matter how powerful it is.

The Naidas sound wonderful, but it will only help me with environmental sounds, not speech clarity. Yes I do read lips well, but CI's are a tremendous help when I do not need to rely on lip reading so much. I can sit down type up my replies and listen to the TV without reading the captioning because CI's gives me exactly what I need...speech discrimination and clarity. HA's will never give me that. IF someone wants to JUST hear environmental sounds and gets along okay or better than me at lip reading, great. All the power to them. :)

I hated my HA's at the end because music sounded terrible and distorted.

My mom has told me that I wore body worn, but only for a couple weeks or months until BTE's came out. I have a picture of me when I was 3 and my HA's were flopping off my ears.
 
john57 said:
deafdude1

I use use the 2cm coupler data which is a bit closer to real life for me than the ear simulator data which I do not look at. The output range of the Naida V UltraPower is about the same as my Supero 412 meaning that there has not been any much if any advancement in maximum output for a number of years. The Naida V SuperPower does have more higher frequency output but there is a trade off in the low frequencies which does not help me.
On my cochlear Freedom the 7k frequency range is as loud as I can handle it and the implant still have a great reserve left for any increase at that frequency range within the map. I have never heard the 7k range as loud the CI implant can give even when I was young and hearing aids back then did not have the extended frequency range of todays hearing aids. I tell you that a loud 7k tone is not pleasant to listen to for more than 2 seconds.
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I will start a new thread on Naida V specs which I found. It's an interesting read. Should I be getting the same gain/SPL as the 2cm coupler results or is that a best case? I did get up to 70db gain with my 10 year old widex senso. I can't find gain specs for that but the SPL is about 10db less than my Naida V except in high frequencies where the widex actually comes ahead but it's a moot point since I have no hearing at high frequencies anyway. I can't seem to hear above 2000 to 3000Hz with either HA.

I thought about trying the Naida SP which is better in frequencies above 2000Hz but now im not sure there's even a point. If anyone thinks a 120+ db loss at above 2000Hz is worth trying the Naida SP, let me know otherwise no point.

Is 7000Hz the highest you can hear with CI? I honestly have no idea what 7000Hz or even 4000Hz today sounds like. Is it like a shrill whistle that goes "eeeeeeeeee" and is it painful? What is the difference between 2, 3, 4, 6KHz frequencies? Is it the same "eeeeeeeee" sound except more shrill? :hmm:

LadySekhmet,

Of course you can't amplify a total hearing loss as is the case for me at high frequencies. Im fine with hearing plenty of environmental sounds and im great at reading lips.
 
The highest usable frequency that I can hear with my freedon is about 7.2kHz and the test of this almost blew me off the chair. The maximum that the implant can give me just under 8kHz. Everything above 8kHz is cut off. The 7kHz tone is very piercing to me and I just as happy that the highest frequency I can hear even with music. I know that there are hearing people that can hear higher frequencies but no thanks.

Trying to boost your hearing with 120+ db loss at above 2000Hz is almost pointless since even if the hearing aid have greater output it would be barely louder than a whisper and also at that level close to the pain level with a very narrow dynamic range. The quality would be poor with with the fewer remaining working hair cells.
 
john57 said:
The highest usable frequency that I can hear with my freedon is about 7.2kHz and the test of this almost blew me off the chair.
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My CI audis (former and present) only test me to 6K. Having said that, I no longer hear alot of high frequencies anymore now that 6 high frequency electrodes have been turned off on each CI.
 
Hear Again said:
The highest frequency someone with a CI is capable of hearing is 6K.
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I can. :) Until I asked them to LOWER my damn map. As you can it was just a wee bit too much in the highs. :)

My Audiogram Pre and Post

To answer DeafDude's question about what it sounds like...it's kind of like a shrill, but it's hard to explain if you haven't heard them before. ...FOR me, it is painful...once I had the highs to more softer, it's much better. So now I pretty much hear from 10DB (at the lows) to 25DB (highs).

Just to clarify - (since I just read DeafDude1's post somewhere else saying that I said hearing on the 15db line was too loud) - I meant that it was too overwhelming, not "loud". I'm hearing every single sound, the high frequencies seem to bother me the most, so I just had the audiologist make the map softer in the Highs..so now I can hear 10 db in the lows, then between 10 and 20 the middle, then 25 to 30db at the highs. I do not need to hear my cat's nail clicking the floor from two rooms down. That's just too much. :-D Hearing people learned to filter out sounds since they were young, I can't...not yet anyways. MAYBE in the future I can turn up my MAPs, if i find things are soft, I still have a lot of room of improvement. I'm still "newly" implanted. It's not as if you get one MAP for the rest of your CI's life...you have to continuously keep adjusting it.
 
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Wow Lady, I like your audiogram... did you do that yourself? I want to make mine smarter and clearer so people can see what i can hear esp with speech banana and environmental sounds.
 
As for my CI hearing, I hear at 15 dB in the low frequencies, 20 dB in the middle frequencies and NR in 6 high frequencies. I used to be able to hear all high frequencies until 6 electrodes were turned off on each CI. That's okay with me though because I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I'm still able to understand speech which is all I care about. Aside from that, music sounds better than ever with high frequencies no longer sounding off-key like they did before.
 
overthepond said:
Wow Lady, I like your audiogram... did you do that yourself? I want to make mine smarter and clearer so people can see what i can hear esp with speech banana and environmental sounds.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I easily just took a picture off the web (just Google "audiogram" and go to images and find a blank one similar to mine), then I used a paint program and just added the dots, different colored dots for results. I haven't added anything since I was activated.
 
naided audiogram, same for both ears. Aided audiogram results comming soon. I wear Phonak Naida V UP hearing aids.

125Hz-65db
250Hz-70db
500Hz-90db
750Hz-105db
1000Hz-110db
1500Hz-110db
2000Hz-115db
3000Hz-115db
4000Hz-120db
6000Hz-NR
8000Hz-NR


DeafDude you are deaf as a doorknob .. Go get a cochlear implant lol
 
Many factors come into play, physical structure of the head and ear, limitations of the electrical parts, and the WIDE and I mean WIDE spectrum of sound. GOD sure knew what HE was doing when HE made ears and sounds ...
 
Hear Again said:
My CI audis (former and present) only test me to 6K. Having said that, I no longer hear alot of high frequencies anymore now that 6 high frequency electrodes have been turned off on each CI.
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If this doesn't affect your speech, does this mean a person doesn't really need high frequency hearing to properly hear speech? How high a frequency do you now hear with 6 electrodes disabled? 2KHz? 3KHz? I was told im missing the frequencies for speech but if you still have the same % speech, then maybe it's just the distortion in my case?

LadySekhmet, interesting. To be honest I was a little overwhelmed when I upgraded to my Naidia's. Sounds I never noticed before seemed to jump at me. I was like "what's this humming" and my dad laughed and said it's the a/c. Im now used to it, my audie said give it a few months and he was right.

Hear Again said:
As for my CI hearing, I hear at 15 dB in the low frequencies, 20 dB in the middle frequencies and NR in 6 high frequencies. I used to be able to hear all high frequencies until 6 electrodes were turned off on each CI. That's okay with me though because I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I'm still able to understand speech which is all I care about. Aside from that, music sounds better than ever with high frequencies no longer sounding off-key like they did before.
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So if I can't hear much above 2000Hz, im really not missing anything important as long as I can hear the lows(500Hz and less) and the mids(500Hz to 2000Hz) and my reason for not properly understanding speech is due to distortion, not due to missing the highs like everyone, even my audie says? So many words sound similar to me, its a wonder how some can differnate them. I don't hear the "s" at the end of words either. Maybe transposition can do something about that?

SouthFella says: DeafDude you are deaf as a doorknob .. Go get a cochlear implant lol
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Theres so much I need to learn about HA's, my hearing, CI and upcomming technology first. :D My biggest problem is not properly understanding speech, otherwise im happy with my Naida V UP hearing aids. What was your hearing unaided, aided and with CI? Was better speech understanding the only or main reason for your CI?
 
My hearing is similar to yours. My speech have always been good since I am "postlingaul" just dont mind the southern drawl.

I got the CI on my worse ear since I was fairly deaf anyway. And I waited on the CI technology to improve enough so that there was a remote and better MAPing strategies.

We all have to make our choices within our situations and pray we made the right choice.

I dont have any regrets with one ear a hearing aid and the other ear a "borg".
 
deafdude1 said:
If this doesn't affect your speech, does this mean a person doesn't really need high frequency hearing to properly hear speech? How high a frequency do you now hear with 6 electrodes disabled? 2KHz? 3KHz? I was told im missing the frequencies for speech but if you still have the same % speech, then maybe it's just the distortion in my case?
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I don't know how high a frequency I hear because I don't have a copy of my latest audiogram. I'll have to e-mail my audi and ask. The 6 highest electrodes on each CI have been turned off, so I'm guessing that would be 2K, 3K, 4K, 6K and 8K.

High frequencies are needed in order to hear consonants. Without them, you would have alot of difficulty hearing the difference between "bat," "cat" and "mat." If you were limited to low and middle frequencies, the only sound you would hear are vowels and only a handful of consonants. This is similar to the kind of hearing I had aided and unaided in my left ear. I could hear vowel sounds, but not consonants.
 
Hear Again so you are missing half of the sounds with 6 electrodes turned off .

Interesting.
 
LadySekhmet said:
I don't think so..it's not "half" as she still has 16 electrodes left, she can still hear pretty well.
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You're correct, Lady. The 6 high frequency electrodes that were turned off were reprogrammed to the low and middle frequency electrodes, so I'm still able to hear some high frequencies. In other words, the high frequency electrodes that were deactivated were shifted to different electrodes so that they are lower in pitch and intensity. I'll have to ask my audi to e-mail a copy of my latest audiogram so I can find out what frequencies I'm unable to hear. She did tell me that I'm unable to hear quite a few high frequencies, but this is what she and my CI surgeon expected given the fact that 6 electrodes on each implant were turned off.
 
SouthFella said:
Hear Again so you are missing half of the sounds with 6 electrodes turned off .

Interesting.
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I know someone who only has 3 electrodes activated on their CI yet they are still able to hear quite well. Having 6 electrodes turned off on each CI really isn't alot when you think about how many electrodes there are on the Freedom (22). That still leaves me with 16 electrodes on each implant. Aside from that, research has continually proven that more electrodes do not necessarily translate into better speech understanding. I'm proof of that since I'm able to understand speech much better now that 12 electrodes have been turned off than I did when all 22 electrodes were activated.
 
SouthFella said:
My hearing is similar to yours. My speech have always been good since I am "postlingaul" just dont mind the southern drawl.

I got the CI on my worse ear since I was fairly deaf anyway. And I waited on the CI technology to improve enough so that there was a remote and better MAPing strategies.

We all have to make our choices within our situations and pray we made the right choice.

I dont have any regrets with one ear a hearing aid and the other ear a "borg".
Click to expand...

Could you upload your audiogram(image file, go to imageshack or imagechicken) or type in the db loss at each given frequency? I wonder how similar. Did you hear as good as 65db in either ear? Did you hear all the frequencies aided? Any idea on aided scores with HAs and now with that CI?

Hear Again, once you are emailed your latest audiogram, upload it here. There's alot we could learn. :)

As for electrodes, I guess 8 is enough for speech but I hear you need at least 100 to properly hear music and all the subtile changes in pitch. If only 16 electrodes, you might hear the difference between 500Hz and 1000Hz but what about all the frequencies in between that?
 
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